The Mazda Miata: Legendary or not?

[zr1chris]

I'm willing to bet you'll find 10 times more people that know what a Miata is than a 57 Chevy.

As for my age, you can see it in my profile. I simply do not care about older American cars because they are, honestly, jokes of engineering. Some of them are nice looking but most are just very, very large and cumbersome.

Of course you will because the 57' Chevy is old. The Miata is from this generation. There is waaaayyyy more Miatas driving around then 57' Chevys. 57' Chevys are in museums and in collectors garages. You wont find any Miatas in those types of places.

 

[zr1chris]

You seem to be forgetting that the world exists outside of the US....

You seem to forget that in my previous post most of the cars I mentioned are not American.

 

[Dragonistic]

Of course you will because the 57' Chevy is old. The Miata is from this generation. There is waaaayyyy more Miatas driving around then 57' Chevys. 57' Chevys are in museums and in collectors garages. You wont find any Miatas in those types of places.

No, you'll find them doing what they're designed to do because they will do it all day every day and will be enjoyed by their owners. The Miata is so good to drive what idiot would want to put it in a garage for the rest of it's life. It's bought by people who want to drive their car, and that is all the more reason to give it the legendary status it deserves.

It's the equivalent of saying a person can only be a legend once they're in a museum, the Miata is a living legend.

You seem to forget that in my previous post most of the cars I mentioned are not American.

He was making the point you seem to only be noting cars which are famous in the US and included ones (not all) which are ONLY famous in the US, specifically the Challenger and Bel Air I would think.

 

[zr1chris]

No, you'll find them doing what they're designed to do because they will do it all day every day and will be enjoyed by their owners. The Miata is so good to drive what idiot would want to put it in a garage for the rest of it's life. It's bought by people who want to drive their car, and that is all the more reason to give it the legendary status it deserves.

It's the equivalent of saying a person can only be a legend once they're in a museum, the Miata is a living legend.



He was making the point you seem to only be noting cars which are famous in the US and included ones (not all) which are ONLY famous in the US, specifically the Challenger and Bel Air I would think.

I guess the Toyota Corolla is an icon too since you see them everywhere. They must love to be driven. Same thing goes for the Scion. The word legendary is thrown around way to easily.

 

[Azuremen]

I guess the Toyota Corolla is an icon too since you see them everywhere. They must love to be driven. Same thing goes for the Scion. The word legendary is thrown around way to easily.

Now you are just grasping at straws. At first you argued from what looked to be a performance standpoint, then "iconic," and now you are throwing that out as well.

The vast majority of the world doesn't care about old American cars.

Also, cool it with the double posts... you've made 3 in this thread so far alone.

 

[Dragonistic]

I guess the Toyota Corolla is an icon too since you see them everywhere. They must love to be driven. Same thing goes for the Scion. The word legendary is thrown around way to easily.

The Scion, we're going back to the you don't live outside the US words of Moglet, I've never seen one in my life , whereas the Corolla which has been with us since 1966 and still going? Not to mention over 30 million units sold. It either is or was the best selling car of all time for a long period, though I couldn't call one particular model a legend the name and brand most certainly is.

You seem to believe anything which is a budget car or anything that is successful on levels other cars in it's class can't dream of can't be deserving of legendary status. The Miata and indeed Corolla have been viewed at some point not just top of their class, but the definition of them at that time and were the benchmarks that others would be measured by for extended periods of time.

 

[Jim Prower]

No kidding right?

VW Beetle. It's not fast, so it sure isn't legendary...

The sarcasm totally just flew over your head, there, didn't it?

 

[McLaren]

I guess the Toyota Corolla is an icon too since you see them everywhere. They must love to be driven. Same thing goes for the Scion. The word legendary is thrown around way to easily.

I'm going to repost this b/c you obviously can't grasp what's actually being said.

As for the Miata itself, I do think it's legendary, but not in the same way a F40 is legendary. The F40 is obviously legendary for what it is, how it was built, what it stands for as a supercar. The Miata not so much, but that's ok b/c Mazda never intended the Miata to be the kind of car the F40 is. To see why the Miata is considered so legendary, you have to understand what it is, how it drives for being what it is, & then why that translates it as the go-to-track car. Add this to the fact that the formula has been relatively unmatched & unchanged since its inception, you have a recipe for greatness.

Your quote supports a bit of what I'm talking about. For those who may see it as a small, slow, plain ol' roadster in entry level of the car market, they won't see it the way other enthusiasts see it. I dare say you really have to drive one on the track to finally see why it's considered such a great car.

 

[zr1chris]

Now you are just grasping at straws. At first you argued from what looked to be a performance standpoint, then "iconic," and now you are throwing that out as well.

The vast majority of the world doesn't care about old American cars.

Also, cool it with the double posts... you've made 3 in this thread so far alone.

I have no double posts. I think your seeing double. I may have 2 posts in a row but they are both in response to two different posts.

The Scion, we're going back to the you don't live outside the US words of Moglet, I've never seen one in my life , whereas the Corolla which has been with us since 1966 and still going? Not to mention over 30 million units sold. It either is or was the best selling car of all time for a long period, though I couldn't call one particular model a legend

This just proves my point

 

[Zenith]

The vast majority of the world doesn't care about old American cars.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said up to this. Allow me to retort...

The old American Mustang also appeared as one of the Top 100 cars of the 20 Century.

I've seen old muscle cars in Germany, Britain, and even a GTO in Italy. There are plenty of Europeans who are fascinated by the theater and culture of American muscle. Whether or not they broke new ground on the front of engineering is irrelevant. Mustangs, Chargers, Challengers, and other American cars are most definitely legendary.

But I digress....

zr1chris: http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/

Check the one about super tunnel vision.

You defined iconic status as what makes a car legendary. How is the Miata not an icon for a small, light, reliable roadster? This is the icon for a 21th century roadsters.

But honestly... you've been jumping around on your reasons so much I don't even know what you define as legendary...

Hi. I'm an American and I recognize that there are multiple perspectives on planet Earth. I do not harbor a sexual fascination for my cousins. I do not bleed ignorance. I understand that my country's culture through the ages does not necessarily reflect the culture of planet earth. We are few, but proud. Do not forget about us.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The sarcasm totally just flew over your head, there, didn't it?

Probably, it's Monday.

This just proves my point

Dude, double posts much?

 

[zr1chris]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said up to this. Allow me to retort...

The old American Mustang also appeared as one of the Top 100 cars of the 20 Century.

I've seen old muscle cars in Germany, Britain, and even a GTO in Italy. There are plenty of Europeans who are fascinated by the theater and culture of American muscle. Whether or not they broke new ground on the front of engineering is irrelevant. Mustangs, Chargers, Challengers, and other American cars are most definitely legendary.

But I digress....

zr1chris: http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/

Check the one about super tunnel vision.

You defined iconic status as what makes a car legendary. How is the Miata not an icon for a small, light, reliable roadster? This is the icon for a 21th century roadsters.

But honestly... you've been jumping around on your reasons so much I don't even know what you define as legendary...

Hi. I'm an American and I recognize that there are multiple perspectives on planet Earth. I do not harbor a sexual fascination for my cousins. I do not bleed ignorance. I understand that my country's culture through the ages does not necessarily reflect the culture of planet earth. We are few, but proud. Do not forget about us.

If your going to be that specific than I guess it can be but i could say that the Dodge Magnum SRT-8 is the best performance station wagon ever made in the US. That still doesnt make it iconic or legendary except for maybe the American station wagon class. As far as your disrespectful link. Your the ignorant one. You act like its a fact what some of you are saying. The only fact is that this subject is a matter of opinion.

 

[zr1chris]

Dude, double posts much?

2 posts in a row that comment on 2 different things are not double posts.

 

[CodeRedR51]

2 posts in a row that comment on 2 different things are not double posts.

Actually, they are. We also have a "multi-quote" button. 👍

Edit:

If your going to be that specific than I guess it can be but i could say that the Dodge Magnum SRT-8 is the best performance station wagon ever made in the US. That still doesnt make it iconic or legendary.

Now we're WAY off topic...

 

[zr1chris]

Now we're WAY off topic...

That was besides the point. Yes the CTS-V wagon would have been a better choice but even that is still not iconic or legendary even if it is the best car ever in that particular class.

 

[Dragonistic]

If your going to be that specific than I guess it can be but i could say that the Dodge Magnum SRT-8 is the best performance station wagon ever made in the US. That still doesnt make it iconic or legendary.

Be criticised for only thinking US, immediately mention best car in a category nobody cares about a specify being made in the US and a car nobody really bought outside of the US. It's nowhere near even being the best in category ignoring your silly tack on 'made in US' which again nobody cares about in terms of how good a car is (i.e. that the country of origin isn't relevant, not saying nobody cares about US cars).

However I simply give up with you, your arguments are all over the place and quite incoherent and you seem incapable of thinking about things from another perspective. To put that last thought into some perspective for you, I don't actually like the Miata and it's a car which will probably never appeal to me however I know the significance of it and would never argue it's status as anything other then what it is.

Surely if nothing else the sheer number of people who disagree with you should prove you wrong, as surely a legend is that which most consider to be so and not the minority opinion. If there was a closer to 50/50 split it would make sense but I think only specific demographics would create that sort of situation when talking about the Miata. You're completely missing the point here, it's not about being the best in class or the fastest, cheapest, highest selling or whatever, it's when you define or redefine the rule book in some way that you start to get up into the higher echelons or if it is a household name to the relevant people it may be considered. People will still refer to the original Miata for comparison when looking at new roadsters, whereas something like the CTS-V will likely only be thought about during it's life cycle and it's that sort of lasting benchmark which turns a great car into a legend. The other factors are reasons why a car are considered in that light, and the right mix of those in that sector are relevant.

 

[zr1chris]

Be criticised for only thinking US, immediately mention best car in a category nobody cares about a specify being made in the US and a car nobody really bought outside of the US. It's nowhere near even being the best in category ignoring your silly tack on 'made in US' which again nobody cares about in terms of how good a car is (i.e. that the country of origin isn't relevant, not saying nobody cares about US cars).

However I simply give up with you, your arguments are all over the place and quite incoherent and you seem incapable of thinking about things from another perspective. To put that last thought into some perspective for you, I don't actually like the Miata and it's a car which will probably never appeal to me however I know the significance of it and would never argue it's status as anything other then what it is.

Surely if nothing else the sheer number of people who disagree with you should prove you wrong, as surely a legend is that which most consider to be so and not the minority opinion. If there was a closer to 50/50 split it would make sense but I think only specific demographics would create that sort of situation when talking about the Miata. You're completely missing the point here, it's not about being the best in class or the fastest, cheapest, highest selling or whatever, it's when you define or redefine the rule book in some way that you start to get up into the higher echelons or if it is a household name to the relevant people it may be considered. People will still refer to the original Miata for comparison when looking at new roadsters, whereas something like the CTS-V will likely only be thought about during it's life cycle and it's that sort of lasting benchmark which turns a great car into a legend. The other factors are reasons why a car are considered in that light, and the right mix of those in that sector are relevant.

What is wrong with you people. Just acting plain ignorant. I know the car is popular all over the world. It doesnt mean its legendary. Also this is a matter of OPINION as to what one person may think is legendary as to what someone else may think.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What is wrong with you people. Just acting plain ignorant. I know the car is popular all over the world. It doesnt mean its legendary. Also this is a matter of OPINION as to what one person may think is legendary as to what someone else may think.

Just think, if the Miata had never come about, grassroots motorsports would certainly not be what it is today. That in itself makes the car legendary.

 

[eSZee]

I have no double posts. I think your seeing double. I may have 2 posts in a row but they are both in response to two different posts.

That is a double post and it's not allowed. Use multi quote to reply to several posts.



Errr, right. Stupid phone.

 

[zr1chris]

Just think, if the Miata had never come about, grassroots motorsports would certainly not be what it is today. That in itself makes the car legendary.

That's your opinion and that's okay. I understand your point and its very valid. My opinion just differs. I don't think that makes a car legendary.

 

[Attila76]

While the Miata may not be large and cumbersome, the engineering involved is not exactly something to throw a party about. The formula was basic on purpose. The Miata's success has absolutely nothing to do with the engineering merits of the car, of which it has none besides being light. Tiny things are light - who'da thunk it.

The Beetle was a joke of engineering. You said yourself it was an icon. A car's contribution to society has nothing to do with the engineering involved. In my opinion, the less engineering, the better. The Beetle and Miata are both excellent examples.

For what it's worth, apparent simplicity does not necessarily mean a lack of engineering. I (and many others I know) would consider it to be an indication of good engineering, in fact.

As for whether I consider the Miata an automotive legend or not - it has a very enthusiastic performance modding community and that does not happen by accident. I'd buy one (NA or NB) at a moment's notice if the price was right. There are not too many cars I can say that about.

 

[Crispy]

Be criticised for only thinking US, immediately mention best car in a category nobody cares about a specify being made in the US and a car nobody really bought outside of the US. It's nowhere near even being the best in category ignoring your silly tack on 'made in US' which again nobody cares about in terms of how good a car is (i.e. that the country of origin isn't relevant, not saying nobody cares about US cars).

Com'on lets be realistic now, made in China is a better response!

OT: I personally think this car is Legendary, simply because of the fact it revived a type of car, not seen since the 60's and 70's, and that it gave a new definition to cheap, reliable, sports car that many have followed for decades up to now. Think about it, you wouldn't have S2000's, Z3's, Z4's, and M Roadsters without it.

If I were to ask anybody at my school this question, they would say no. Since they're all young still (including me) they think the fast, expensive, luxurious, supercars are the only "legendary" cars, which some are, but only because they, like the Miata, redefined the rulebook for their specific class. Take a 959, it set the rulebook that most supercars follow today with all the electronics and gadgets that control all sorts of things. Or the BMW 3-Series, which set standards for comfort, and sports. Or the AE86, which was extremely technologically advanced for its time, and raised the bar for economical coupes that are used as daily drivers. All these cars are examples of something legendary.

 

[Keef]

For what it's worth, apparent simplicity does not necessarily mean a lack of engineering. I (and many others I know) would consider it to be an indication of good engineering, in fact.

Sure. But good engineering is hard to come by these days. People love to design things that are way more complicated than they need to be, and they like to redesign it over and over for no obvious reason. Occasionally, good engineering happens, but because 90% of the whole is bad engineering, it's better to just have as little engineering as possible.

 

[Dan_]

Of course it's legendary. Was that even supposed to be a question?

 

[Zenith]

What is wrong with you people. Just acting plain ignorant. I know the car is popular all over the world. It doesnt mean its legendary. Also this is a matter of OPINION as to what one person may think is legendary as to what someone else may think.

Actually. It does mean that it's legendary.

But fine, I'll bite. What are your "criteria" for making a car a legend? No more pedantic, tunnel visioned retorts. What tests must a car pass to be considered a legend in your book? Hopefully we can put this ridiculousness to rest.

 

[Eric.]

How about this: Why is the 57 Chevy legendary? What changes did it bring to automotive society? How long was it in production () and still being the best at what it is meant to do?

What made a 57 Chevy any more special than any other barge of its day?

 

[Crispy]

How about this: Why is the 57 Chevy legendary? What changes did it bring to automotive society? How long was it in production () and still being the best at what it is meant to do?

What made a 57 Chevy any more special than any other barge of its day?

The Bel-Air looked a lot like the Prince Motors Skyline!

 

[fitftw]

I have to say I'm surprised so many of you approve of the Miata. Most people gaybash it and say it's slow and tiny etc...well I love mine. It is a classic. A record-breaking 900,000 Miatas have been sold worldwide. The Miata will never die. And it looked as good in 1989 as it does today. Timeless first-generation style.

 

[Crispy]

I have to say I'm surprised so many of you approve of the Miata. Most people gaybash it and say it's slow and tiny etc...well I love mine. It is a classic. A record-breaking 900,000 Miatas have been sold worldwide. The Miata will never die. And it looked as good in 1989 as it does today. Timeless first-generation style.

I love mine too! Why do so many people call it a "girl car"? Its a race car!

 

[niky]

- if it doesn't appear on a list of the twenty ten greatest cars ever made, the list is wrong.

Fixed

Grr. Car no go fast. Car no legendary.

Grrrrr.

Here is 5 roadsters that are all around better. 65' Shelby Cobra, 66' Mercedes 300SL, BMW Z3 or Z4 (which ever you prefer), Porsche Boxter S, Honda S2000. Mind you this is only Roadsters. There is now way that the Miata makes the top 20 all time list.

300SL is a classic, but had the rear suspension of a Beetle, the 65 Cobra is Legendary, but not better all around... faster in a straight line, but that's it... the Boxster S probably drives better than an MX-5, but is ridiculously overpriced, the S2000 is nowhere near as accessible in terms of handling as the MX-5, not unless the road is completely smooth, the Z4 is plastic fantastic, more expensive and more cramped than the MX-5, without actually giving you anything more in terms of driver involvement, while the regular, top-down non-M Z3 isn't even as sophisticated as the MX-5...

The Miata is so good to drive what idiot would want to put it in a garage for the rest of it's life. It's bought by people who want to drive their car, and that is all the more reason to give it the legendary status it deserves.

I guess the Toyota Corolla is an icon too since you see them everywhere. They must love to be driven. Same thing goes for the Scion. The word legendary is thrown around way to easily.

Do you know what Gordon Murray is most proud of about the McLaren F1?

It's that people drive them. All the time. F1s change hand secondhand with ridiculous amounts of mileage on them. F1s get dinged, stone-chipped and scratched. They're flogged half-to-death by their owners on track. They get crashed. Then are rebuilt to be crashed again. And yet, a used example with a lot of miles will still fetch a million dollars easy. A low mileage example with fetch 2-4 million dollars... which is an incredible amount of money for a modern supercar (most non-classic supercars don't resell for that much)... and they go for that much because a low mileage F1 is extremely rare.

But I guess that makes it un-legendary, doesn't it?

---

The amount of engineering that goes into the MX-5 is no joke. Miatas have had a safety spare to save weight since before they became fashionable, and the battery is in the trunk for better weight distribution. For the NC, they stressed over every extra pound of weight, to the point that they used slimmer plastic sun visors than you get on a Mazda2. This sort of bizarre anal-retentive approach to weight saving is akin to what you'd see on an NSX-R... yet is applied to one of the cheapest sports cars on the market.

The attention to engineering and performance is why MX-5s are all double-wishbone (except the NC, which uses double-wishbones in front and multi-link in the back)... the Z4? McPhersons. The Z3? Worse, McPhersons and trailing links. Not that those impede handling, but Mazda's use of double-wishbones allowed them to give the MX-5 great handling without sacrificing ride quality.

Of course... none of this would mean anything if people didn't like the car... but they love it. The MX-5 is the best selling sports car ever, and people flog them to death every day on racetracks around the world. This is what makes it legendary.