The new Cold War(s)

[TenEightyOne]

You do realise it is only the liberals here arguing the unarguable right? Tell me you guys see that at least....

That it's Islaamic convention to have separate seating, that it's Jewish convention to do the same at some events, that my local Conservatives run a men-only bar, or that liberals are a single united group?

This used to be a cultural norm. I'm thinking of convincing the British Left to let it comeback. What do you say, let's start with the Labour tour bus?

Let's start with forgetting the idea of a "British Left", I infer that you re-introduced the term as a joke but given the lack of knowledge you've demonstrated in assessing the make-up of the political spectrum the humour has rather gone.

Do I agree with separate seating in traditional settings? No, but then I'm certainly on record at this forum on the whole point of religion. Do I think that representative of the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dem should stop appearing at meetings in traditional settings because of that convention? No.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How does the idea of a Russian relic that wanders off like a baby bear ( see what I did there) in mid-air, constitute British baby sitting?

If that's the case then you should have had implications of this cold war turmoil ongoing since Yeltsin joined and left office considering U.S. fighters have frequently had to do this over Alaska. It's like Grandpa getting outside and scaring the neighborhood kids with how much a candy bar was during his day...it is nothing. When the Gen 5 fighter show up over restricted airspace then it's worry.

I know you wrote more than that, but that part just the massive leap it seemed to imply needed to be squashed.

 

[KSaiyu]

That it's Islaamic convention to have separate seating, that it's Jewish convention to do the same at some events, that my local Conservatives run a men-only bar, or that liberals are a single united group?

That's fine....at an Islamic convention. Or a Jewish convention. Or a Conservative Club, which by the way:

The vast majority of Conservative Clubs offer full membership to both men and women.

But no, not at a political party rally.

Let's start with forgetting the idea of a "British Left", I infer that you re-introduced the term as a joke but given the lack of knowledge you've demonstrated in assessing the make-up of the political spectrum the humour has rather gone.

Do I agree with separate seating in traditional settings? No, but then I'm certainly on record at this forum on the whole point of religion. Do I think that representative of the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dem should stop appearing at meetings in traditional settings because of that convention? No.

Prove why I can't use British Left. You've tried and failed.

How does the idea of a Russian relic that wanders off like a baby bear ( see what I did there) in mid-air, constitute British baby sitting?

If that's the case then you should have had implications of this cold war turmoil ongoing since Yeltsin joined and left office considering U.S. fighters have frequently had to do this over Alaska. It's like Grandpa getting outside and scaring the neighborhood kids with how much a candy bar was during his day...it is nothing. When the Gen 5 fighter show up over restricted airspace then it's worry.

I know you wrote more than that, but that part just the massive leap it seemed to imply needed to be squashed.

This was addressed earlier 👍

 

[TenEightyOne]

That's fine....at an Islamic convention. Or a Jewish convention.

Which is how the people naturally organised themselves at the meeting you linked. There was no enforced seating... unless you're trying to say there was? Good job the Cons have never been involved in direct sexism.

And, I guess, it's better than no progress at all.

'Nobody was told to sit anywhere. It just happened that men and women sat separately – but what the photo doesn’t show is there were women and men together at the back.

'What people need to understand is that this part of a process of engaging with Muslim women and this was the start of that. It is about giving women in some communities the confidence to engage.

'People can say what they like. In 2010 I went to rallies where there were no women at all'

The vast majority of Conservative Clubs offer full membership to both men and women.

So some of them don't? The one that I was at does, are you confusing full membership with full access, I wonder?

Prove why I can't use British Left. You've tried and failed.

That suggests that you think "British Left" is a useful or meaningful term. It isn't. I don't think I tried to prove why it wasn't, that was @Scaff. He did a good job but sadly it seemed to go over your head.

 

[KSaiyu]

Which is how the people naturally organised themselves at the meeting you linked. There was no enforced seating... unless you're trying to say there was?

Of course it's not enforced. Those women all just chose to sit there. Ain't they good a massta

Good job the Cons have never been involved in direct sexism.

......

You've given "one senior party member" as a counter point.

 

[Scaff]

This was addressed earlier 👍

Odd that not a single bit of this was however?

You know when you contradicted yourself (either that or you misread when claiming other were) and so for the third time I will ask:

Now please address the following:

Show me the massive overlap between Antifa UK and the Labour Party, I'm in particular interested in how you will manage the key policy of direct physical confrontation they have, after all to not be able to would show a clear delineation.

What about the British Communist Parties manifesto policy of nationalising every part of the UK and the total removal of the Capitalist system, as unless the Labour party are doing the same that would be a clear delineation?

Violent street confrontations, the removal of the Capitalist system, nationalization of every aspect of the UK and the establishment of a Communist society. These are all key goals of the far left, please show a match to everyone of those for the Labour party, because without that it seem to be some rather clear delineations.

Or do you intend to ignore it for a third time?

You have also forgotten this as well:

However you are the one making the claim that "The Left" is a single entity, as such the burden of proof for that is on you.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How does the idea of a Russian relic that wanders off like a baby bear ( see what I did there) in mid-air, constitute British baby sitting?

I've got this:

Obviously, the Russians are planning something. There's no proof that they are, but we can't be certain that they're not, so we can't afford to take the chance. Britain should pull its finger out and so something damn manly because if they don't, the Russians will overrun them and make a mockery of everything that Britain stands for.

[/KSaiyu]

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This was addressed earlier 👍

No it wasn't I read the entirety of this small thread (thus far) and haven't seen anything addressing it really. So I guess I'll just leave @Scaff to draw it out of you, and while I wait, I'll use the wonderful satire @prisonermonkeys posted as an adequate answer, it did capture your tone and paranoia.

 

[squadops]

I must be missing the point of the question, the Norwegians intercepted transmissions from the TU-95 confirming it had a nuke on board. They deployed F-16s and escorted/followed it to British airspace where the Brits followed up with Typhoons, and so on and so forth. Saying they 'baby sat' it isn't accurate?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I must be missing the point of the question, the Norwegians intercepted transmissions from the TU-95 confirming it had a nuke on board. They deployed F-16s and escorted/followed it to British airspace where the Brits followed up with Typhoons, and so on and so forth. Saying they 'baby sat' it isn't accurate?

Do you have a source for the Norwegian intercept?

A scramble to a Bear still isn't unusual or newsworthy, we already know that Russia have nuclear capability - that goes back to the Cold War of the OP, no? Hardly a surprise... except maybe to the slack-jawed mouth-breathing British tabloids.

 

[squadops]

Yeah, I posted it on the first page

If you read my post you will see what I had to say about it being a surprise, however I was asking "why not call it baby sitting?"

The Russians where flying with their transponder off which causes some problems for the commercial airliners, substantial traffic in the area I would think. What if they had any sort of trouble with the plane, it was carrying some serious payload to be taken seriously.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yeah, I posted it on the first page

If you read my post you will see what I had to say about it being a surprise, however I was asking "why not call it baby sitting?"

The Russians where flying with their transponder off which causes some problems for the commercial airliners, substantial traffic in the area I would think. What if they had any sort of trouble with the plane, it was carrying some serious payload to be taken seriously.

Noted, apologies

 

[prisonermonkeys]

@prisonermonkeys posted as an adequate answer, it did capture your tone and paranoia.

Now, replace "Russians" with "Muslims" and "liberals" and "anyone who doesn't think, act or behave exactly like me or share my values" and you get a pretty good idea of about 90% of his posts (the other 10% being long-winded anecdotal evidence, refusing to provide sources, and dodging the question).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I must be missing the point of the question, the Norwegians intercepted transmissions from the TU-95 confirming it had a nuke on board. They deployed F-16s and escorted/followed it to British airspace where the Brits followed up with Typhoons, and so on and so forth. Saying they 'baby sat' it isn't accurate?

Not sure who this is in response to...if it is to me @TenEightyOne basically summed up what I would have said.

 

[KSaiyu]

So, nationalism has exploded in Scotland with the election of a number of SNP candidates, Gorgeous George has outlived his usefulness as a "useful idiot" as the Muslim contingent in Bradford West vote for the Muslim candidate of Labour (not without first committing a crime of course) and UKIP have an MP.

I'd give pictures but they might be debated for four pages.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How dare they vote for the person who they feel best represents their interests! That's not democracy!

 

[KSaiyu]

It's mob rule (perfectly allowed within a democracy).

The writing was on the wall for Galloway, hence why Gorgeous was making overtures to Tower Hamlets in the months preceding May 7th

 

[TenEightyOne]

So, nationalism has exploded in Scotland with the election of a number of SNP candidates, Gorgeous George has outlived his usefulness as a "useful idiot" as the Muslim contingent in Bradford West vote for the Muslim candidate of Labour (not without first committing a crime of course) and UKIP have an MP.

Wrong thread but you got that backwards, it was (as you linked) Galloway who allegedly committed (or allowed to be committed) the crime, not the "Muslim contingent"*.

* Or "voting British adults", as one might say.

 

[KSaiyu]

Ya it was George who committed the crime... Perhaps the bracket could have been positioned better in the sentence but I never did get my English GCSE at 16

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's mob rule (perfectly allowed within a democracy).

But if the Muslim candidate hadn't won, it would have been a fair and balanced decision by the people, right?

 

[KSaiyu]

What? The guy is a crook. It's a good thing the Labour candidate won...

He'll be back though. I imagine he'll fit in perfectly out East

 

[Scaff]

What? The guy is a crook. It's a good thing the Labour candidate won...

By quite a margin as well, its almost as if people saw a clear delineation between these two elements of the Left.


Which means for the forth time I will ask:

Now please address the following:

Show me the massive overlap between Antifa UK and the Labour Party, I'm in particular interested in how you will manage the key policy of direct physical confrontation they have, after all to not be able to would show a clear delineation.

What about the British Communist Parties manifesto policy of nationalising every part of the UK and the total removal of the Capitalist system, as unless the Labour party are doing the same that would be a clear delineation?

Violent street confrontations, the removal of the Capitalist system, nationalization of every aspect of the UK and the establishment of a Communist society. These are all key goals of the far left, please show a match to everyone of those for the Labour party, because without that it seem to be some rather clear delineations.

Or do you intend to ignore it for a forth time?

You have also forgotten this as well:

However you are the one making the claim that "The Left" is a single entity, as such the burden of proof for that is on you.

 

[KSaiyu]

What are you talking about, what proof do you require.

I'm afraid you're looking at the Bradford West situation too superficially...

George Galloway will target Tower Hamlets, a borough of London that is overrun with corruption and has an overwhelming Muslim majority.

George Galloway will get votes in London, despite his track record.

The British Left includes various parties at various ends of the spectrum, as the British Right does. There is a clear association between Islam and the British Left. Just as the British Right are concerned about the encroachment of Islam on British rule and culture.

 

[Scaff]

What are you talking about, what proof do you require.

I've outlined that quite clearly, with a series of quite clear questions and points for you to address. That you have failed to do so four times in a row is quite telling in and of itself.

How about actually addressing them, none of which should be difficult if, as you quite clearly state, no clear delineation exists within the left.

The British Left includes various parties at various ends of the spectrum, as the British Right does.

Then why do you split one out into sub-groups but not the other?

Oh wait, its that clear delineation that doesn't exists on the left. Odd then that you can't back that up by addressing a few valid observations.

There is a clear association between Islam and the British Left.

Once again for the cheap seats. All of them?

Labour now has 232 MPs, of that a whole 9 are Muslims, a number of whom are women, that's 3.9% (compared to 4.4% of the UK population), that would seem to be a reflection in line with population?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/record-of-13-muslim-mps-elected-8-of-them-women-1-3768726

Just as the British Right are concerned about the encroachment of Islam on British rule and culture.

But not all of these of course, because they have nice clear delineations.

Oh and the right has 3, so best get rid of those sharpish, don't want them encroaching on British rule and culture.

 

[Dotini]

Didn't the left get repudiated at the polls? Why?

 

[Scaff]

Didn't the left get repudiated at the polls? Why?

Yes and no. The left as an overall group lost ground to the right as an overall group (however in comparison to US politics the vast majority of UK parties would be the left). On the left the 'only just left' Liberal Democrats got pretty much destroyed (and lost seats to pretty much everyone) the 'middle left' Labour lost a huge number of seats to the 'more left than Labour but only in Scotland' SNP. On the right the more extreme UKIP were reduced to one seat (but gained 13% of the total vote) and anything more extreme than that on either side came effectively no where.

 

[Dotini]

Offhand, I'd guess that anyone, like @KSaiyu, who bet Conservative before the vote, should be doing some gloating. But I don't pretend to understand either UK politics or the British mind.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's a bit redundant. All the conservatives do is gloat.

 

[KSaiyu]

@Scaff I'm not sure what else you require. I've given the links with the Labour party and with the Greens saying they have no problem with people joining an international Islamic terrorist organisation and the leader of the largest Trade Union cosying up to Rahman I still don't see what your arguing.

Offhand, I'd guess that anyone, like @KSaiyu, who bet Conservative before the vote, should be doing some gloating. But I don't pretend to understand either UK politics or the British mind.

The thing is I'm more neo-Con than anything else - I've voted Conservative the same amount of times I've voted Green.

And neo-Cons are far too busy fixing decades of Leftist policies to gloat, which in my case is the NHS (well, a hospital within the system).

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Russia and China continue on the road to be "Besties"

The Russian and Chinese navies have begun their first joint exercises in the Mediterranean that will last for about a week.

Though small scale, it is a signal of growing defence ties between Beijing and Moscow and a demonstration that China's maritime horizons are broadening.

Two Chinese 054A/Jiangkai II class missile frigates - the Linyi and the Weifang - are involved along with a supply vessel, the Weishanhu.

Some six Russian ships are also taking part, and the exercises will encompass safety drills, replenishment at sea, escort missions and some live firing.

The Chinese warships had previously visited the Russian Black sea base of Novorossiysk (another first for the Chinese navy) as part of the Victory in Europe celebrations.

Fresh focus

Over recent years, Russia has been seeking to restore its naval presence in the Mediterranean, which largely lapsed at the end of the Cold War....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-32686956

President Xi of China was the most prominent foreign head of state to attend the celebrations. In a highly symbolic gesture, soldiers from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army marched with Russian troops in the Red Square parade.

Mr Antonov also said that Russia and China would hold further joint naval exercises in the Sea of Japan in August. The Russian and Chinese navies have been holding regular joint drills since 2012.

The Russian defence ministry said that the exercises in the Mediterranean did not pose a threat to any third country. China and Russia signed deals on energy, infrastructure and military co-operation during Mr Xi’s three-day visit to Moscow, including a pledge by China to invest £3.9 billion in a Russian intercity railway.

Last year Moscow and Beijing agreed a £290 billion deal for Russia to provide China with 38 billion cubic metres of gas annually from 2018 to 2048

China gets even tougher on Islam

China is forcing Muslim shop owners to sell alcohol and cigarettes to 'weaken' Islam


Chinese authorities have ordered Muslim shopkeepers and restaurant owners in a village in its troubled Xinjiang region to sell alcohol and cigarettes, and promote them in “eye-catching displays,” in an attempt to undermine Islam’s hold on local residents, Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported. Establishments that failed to comply were threatened with closure and their owners with prosecution.


Facing widespread discontent over its repressive rule in the mainly Muslim province of Xinjiang, and mounting violence in the past two years, China has launched a series of “strike hard” campaigns to weaken the hold of Islam in the western region. Government employees and children have been barred from attending mosques or observing the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan. In many places, women have been barred from wearing face-covering veils, and men discouraged from growing long beards.

In the village of Aktash in southern Xinjiang, Communist Party official Adil Sulayman, told RFA that many local shopkeepers had stopped selling alcohol and cigarettes from 2012 “because they fear public scorn,” while many locals had decided to abstain from drinking and smoking.

The Koran calls the use of “intoxicants” sinful, while some Muslim religious leaders have also forbidden smoking.

Sulayman said authorities in Xinjiang viewed ethnic Uighurs who did not smoke as adhering to “a form of religious extremism.” They issued the order to counter growing religious sentiment that was “affecting stability,” he said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-and-cigarettes-to-weaken-islam-10228410.html

Christian initially denied a voice in reporting ISIS atrocities

• 
  
  
  • "After the [Christian governor] told them [U.S. authorities] that they were ignoring the 12 Shariah states who (sic) institutionalized persecution ... he suddenly developed visa problems. ... The question remains -- why is the U.S. downplaying or denying the attacks against Christians?" — Emmanuel Ogebe, Nigerian human rights lawyer based in Washington D.C.
  • "In the same week that the State Dept says it will take the engagement of religious leaders seriously ... it refuses a visa to a persecuted Christian nun who has fled ISIS, Sister Diana." — Chris Seiple, President, Institute for Global Engagement.

The Iraqi Christian nun, Sister Diana Momeka (left), this month received a visa to visit the U.S. as part of a delegation of foreign religious leaders. The State Dept. had originally denied her visa request, only allowing in non-Christian delegates. Last year, the United States Institute for Peace invited to the U.S. the Muslim governors of Nigeria's northern states, but the sole Christian governor, Plateau State Gov. Jonah David Jang (right), was denied a visa.

Late on the evening of May 8, Newsmax TV announced that pressure from Americans acquainted with Sister Diana Momeka's visa rejection has just caused the State Department to reverse its decision and permit her entry into the United States. Until then, however, she and others were barred

After inviting a number of foreign religious leaders, mostly Muslim, the U.S. State Department, for the second time in a row, denied the sole Christian representative a visa -- despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that Christians are the ones being persecuted by Muslims.

Sister Diana, an influential Iraqi Christian leader and spokeswoman who was scheduled to visit the U.S. to advocate for persecuted Christians in the Mideast, earlier this month was denied a visa by the U.S. State Department, even though she had visited the U.S. before, most recently in 2012.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5721/christian-visa-state-dept

 

[mustafur]

Neo-Cons are more or less the same as the Centre left just a bit more economic conservitive which is outdone with extra Stupidity regarding international relations.