The New Toyota Corolla Hatchback is the Latest #SaveTheManual Ambassador

Also Camry V8 Touring Cars in New Zealand. đź‘Ť

Not developed by Toyota, nor are some of those racecars on that list. I would have just shown the production cars really since the race car side doesn't add much to the argument that Toyota are exciting. However, he did forget an actual vehicle Toyota produces and races and is actually more aligned with the production end of things than many of those he did list. That being the Dakar Raid Toyota Hilux
 
All this discussion about whether Toyota makes exciting sporty cars is missing a rather critical element as it pertains to the Toyota Corolla the article is about; it being the latest generation of a long line of cars absolutely no one would consider as their first choice if they wanted the exciting sporty car in the segment:
Not only does it present a very affordable entry point into driving ($20,980 CAD / $19,900 USD)
AKA the actual reason a milquetoast economy car has a manual transmission. This one seems to be a pretty good one from what the rags say aside from the clutch (and Toyota should be lauded for sure for finally making rev matching a standard thing), but they also seem to make it quite clear that the car it is in is still a Corolla even if it is much better than the woeful car on sale last year.
 
Last edited:
This is something a little different from our usual automotive coverage. Let us know if these sorts of events/insights are something you want to see more of!
I’d say yes, more of this. There’s hardly anything more yawn-inducing than another article about some $2.6MM hypercar that maybe a few dozen people will ever own.

I’m liking the new Carolla hatch but am a little sad that the cargo volume seems a bit reduced vs. the outgoing iM - which was also available with a stick.

Lastly, the article mentions the new Supra, seemingly in the context of affordable, fun cars with manual transmissions. It will not be available with a manual transmission, and probably won’t be affordable by most peoples’ definition.
 
I'm very pro automatic transmission, but I'll say this...a CVT is the worst possible option in my opinion for a car. Sure it probably works better, but in terms of driving, it's horrendous. I'm also not sure I've driven a CVT equipped vehicle that didn't sound like a camel dying and/or giving birth.

My wife's '17 Honda Accord has a CVT and while I was originally opposed to the idea of that transmission, after driving it for a few thousand miles I think it is perfectly acceptable, sometimes even better than a traditional automatic. I've driven some cars with a CVT that have been absolutely awful, but Honda at least seems to know what they're doing.
 
To me the big takeaway from this story isn't about the Corolla itself, or Toyota's reputation among enthusiasts. It's the fact that Toyota actually gives enough of a damn about the manual transmission to encourage people to try it, and to develop upon it to make it more appealing, in something that isn't even a sportscar. That's a bright-ass star of hope compared to the manual's depressing prospects across almost all of the rest of the industry these days.

It's not like I expect Toyota to follow through with more of this, but the fact that they did it at all stands out. It's big news compared to apologies citing sales, or some lower-level company representative saying, "don't worry, we're not completely eliminating the manual from our lineup yet."

The anti-stall feature is twice as clever as rev-matching, though I personally like the implication from the article's wording that it's an opt-in function. In hindsight, it seems like something that should have been thought up years ago.

Truthfully, driving a manual certainly does not prevent you from driving while distracted, but I believe the lack of engagement with automatics is one cause of apathy about driving. In relaxed settings, an automatic gives you little to do. Combined with how quiet and cocooning modern cars are, it's little wonder people who already aren't interested in cars or driving will seek out distractions.
 
Some of the comments on here are kind of depressing and echo what the old folks think about millennials.

I’ve always owned vehicles with automatics, simply because I never had any exposure to manual vehicles, other than doing donuts in my best friend’s Ranger when we were 17. On this side of the Atlantic there’s no reason to drive manual really at any point in your life. Driving manual in video games isn’t fun. But still I’ve always considered myself an enthusiast since I’ve always loved driving.

But then I got a job where I was having to learn how to drive manual and got seat time in various vehicles. The first manual vehicle I ever drove on the street was a Fiesta ST. I fell in love with the transmission in the Civic Si and Focus RS, but then realized how torturous manuals could be in vehicles like a Jeep Patriot or Chevy Orlando. Vehicles always have their own character, but having a manual transmission just makes it more so.

I’m still not sure if I prefer manual to automatic, and I strongly disagree with the assertion that manual makes you less distracted. I have much easier time paying attention to what’s going on with an automatic vehicle. With manual I have trouble keeping my mind focused on the movement of the other traffic and predicting other drivers’ actions since I’m concentrating on driving the car. And no, I’m not someone who ever touches a phone or even the infotainment screen while driving. But I live in the country, and only go to the city (Toronto) or have to deal with traffic once every month or two, so I’ve decided my next vehicle will be manual. I drive a Mazda 3 at the moment, so another one of them with a clutch pedal is the leading candidate, but this Corolla is right up there.

My mom has a C-HR, which is on the same TNGA platform, and it rides like a dream. Its flaws are its driving position (since it’s a crossover), its lack of power, massive blindspots, and the CVT. A manual Corolla should remedy all of these except maybe the blind spots. Plus maybe this new anti-stall feature might actually incentivize my girlfriend to learn manual as well. She keeps saying she has no interest in shifting, even though she loves driving like I do. We shall see.

Also, I’ve driven Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, Nissans, FCA products, pretty much everything they’ve stuck a CVT into and they’re all complete and utter garbage. I would rather be shot in the feet than purchase a vehicle with one. DCTs aren’t much better (unless they’re VW or something expensive).
 
On this side of the Atlantic there’s no reason to drive manual really at any point in your life. Driving manual in video games isn’t fun.
The practical differences between an automatic and manual are enough for manual transmission to be a strict requirement in my car shopping. The clutch is actually the more important part, which makes an SMG/DCT or "manumatic" inadequate, while a sequential transmission as found on a motorcycle is just as good.

As for videogames, it isn't fun like the real thing, but not shifting gears only subtracts from the experience.

I’m still not sure if I prefer manual to automatic, and I strongly disagree with the assertion that manual makes you less distracted. I have much easier time paying attention to what’s going on with an automatic vehicle. With manual I have trouble keeping my mind focused on the movement of the other traffic and predicting other drivers’ actions since I’m concentrating on driving the car...
Perhaps it would surprise you that I find an automatic a bit more distracting than a manual. :) Clutching and shifting becomes more natural with practice; to me it's about as mindless as braking, accelerating, or steering. I find it comparatively distracting to negotiate a gearshift out of an automatic with the throttle pedal, or to maintain a speed given the slurred throttle response of a torque converter. I use cruise control liberally with automatics compared to manuals.

...maybe this new anti-stall feature might actually incentivize my girlfriend to learn manual as well. She keeps saying she has no interest in shifting, even though she loves driving like I do. We shall see.
@Mrs Wolfe isn't exactly opposed to driving manual, but she finds it too nerve-wracking to learn. I sent her this article and she expressed interest in learning to drive manual if it was with the assistance of something like the Intelligent Manual system. đź‘Ť
 
DCTs aren’t much better (unless they’re VW or something expensive).
As a fan of DCTs, I'm a bit sad to hear this. On the other hand, I can see it as a reason to respect manuals' reliability.

Truthfully, driving a manual certainly does not prevent you from driving while distracted, but I believe the lack of engagement with automatics is one cause of apathy about driving. In relaxed settings, an automatic gives you little to do. Combined with how quiet and cocooning modern cars are, it's little wonder people who already aren't interested in cars or driving will seek out distractions.
Personally, I think manuals don't really contribute much to "keeping the driver busy", other than making them worry about stalling their cars if revs fall too low. If one's fluent enough in using stick shift, one can get bored of it and driving in general too.
On the other hand, cars with manual transmissions can also be exhausting. My uncle, after he moved to another city, was specifically looking for a car with an auto, as he didn't feel like driving a car with a manual transmission for hours whenever he wanted to visit his parents. Before that, he was driving a car with a manual transmission for years and had no difficulties using it.
Thus, the way I see it, blaming automatics for making people uninterested in driving and suggesting using manuals as a solution might not always be the best idea, as there are other reasons people prefer autos besides not being good at manuals.
 
Here's a quote from an article:

In 2006, 47% of new models offered in the U.S. were available with both automatic and manual transmissions, according to a study by Edmunds.com. By 2011, that number had dropped to 37%. This year, the number has fallen to 27%.

The actual sales figures are even lower. Edmunds senior analyst Ivan Drury said fewer than 3% of current U.S. car sales are manual vehicles — compared with 80% in some European and Asian countries, and down in the U.S. from 7% in 2012 and 25% in 1992.

"That number is never going to go back up," Drury said. "The trajectory is down, headed for zero."

Good.

I don't hate manuals, but I do hate to see people stuck in outmodded technology forever. Even the ICE itself is obviously headed the way of the dodo. The manual is no surprise. For those of you, like @Wolfe, who lament the loss of the manual, lament not. It will always be around in the form of classic cars. Find the one you like the best and hold on to it for the rest of your life (go ahead and do that in the next 5 years or so). There are some great cars out there for you to choose from.

Worrying about keeping distracted drivers busy is a passing phase. Cars will be driving themselves shortly... and then I'll lament a time when we actually believed and recognized that the average person is competent and trustworthy enough to pilot their own vehicle. There will be a time in the near future where people don't believe it, and don't trust each other enough to let their neighbor own or drive a car.

"It's a weapon, it could be used to commit mass murder. It's dangerous, why are people not more strictly licensed for this? You put explosive chemicals in it and drive 2 tons of death in any direction you choose at any speed you choose and everyone can do it? I don't think so. Maybe it worked in the wild west, but not today with all the crazies out there."
 
I can't see the transmission really contributing to boredom, distracting driving, etc. Truth is a majority of vehicles on the market are boring since enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of car buyers.

On this side of the Atlantic there’s no reason to drive manual really at any point in your life.

Really, there's no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual anywhere in the world if they are buying a modern vehicle. The only reason you'd even need to buy a manual is that you like it or you compete in some form of motorsports. Past that, objectively a modern automatic transmission is better than any manual transmission on the market.
 
I can't see the transmission really contributing to boredom, distracting driving, etc. Truth is a majority of vehicles on the market are boring since enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of car buyers.



Really, there's no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual anywhere in the world if they are buying a modern vehicle. The only reason you'd even need to buy a manual is that you like it or you compete in some form of motorsports. Past that, objectively a modern automatic transmission is better than any manual transmission on the market.

In other parts of the world though there’s separate license classes for manual drivers. Here you can get your full license without ever having to touch a stick shift. But yeah there’s not much reason even for the former to be a worry for the vast majority of people anymore.
 
In other parts of the world though there’s separate license classes for manual drivers. Here you can get your full license without ever having to touch a stick shift. But yeah there’s not much reason even for the former to be a worry for the vast majority of people anymore.

True, but I assume if you get a license in a manual you can still drive an automatic using the same license, but not vice versa right? I'm not really sure.
 
True, but I assume if you get a license in a manual you can still drive an automatic using the same license, but not vice versa right? I'm not really sure.

Yes it’s assumed people who got their license with a manual will be able to handle an automatic vehicle.

Here's a quote from an article:



Good.

I don't hate manuals, but I do hate to see people stuck in outmodded technology forever. Even the ICE itself is obviously headed the way of the dodo. The manual is no surprise. For those of you, like @Wolfe, who lament the loss of the manual, lament not. It will always be around in the form of classic cars. Find the one you like the best and hold on to it for the rest of your life (go ahead and do that in the next 5 years or so). There are some great cars out there for you to choose from.

Worrying about keeping distracted drivers busy is a passing phase. Cars will be driving themselves shortly... and then I'll lament a time when we actually believed and recognized that the average person is competent and trustworthy enough to pilot their own vehicle. There will be a time in the near future where people don't believe it, and don't trust each other enough to let their neighbor own or drive a car.

"It's a weapon, it could be used to commit mass murder. It's dangerous, why are people not more strictly licensed for this? You put explosive chemicals in it and drive 2 tons of death in any direction you choose at any speed you choose and everyone can do it? I don't think so. Maybe it worked in the wild west, but not today with all the crazies out there."

I believe the manual transmission will outlive the (conventional) automatic transmission. Same reason I think V8s will outlive 4 and 6 cylinders. That’s a niche that EVs can never fill, even if it’s just as handmade replicas being built out of a shed somewhere.

That will be the romanticized idea of what an old fashioned car was in the future.
 
Last edited:
I believe the manual transmission will outlive the (conventional) automatic transmission. Same reason I think V8s will outlive 4 and 6 cylinders. That’s a niche that EVs can never fill, even if it’s just as handmade replicas being built out of a shed somewhere.

It depends on what you mean by "outlive" as to whether I think you've got it backwards or just wrong. ;)

If you mean that the last manual sold will be after the last conventional automatic sold, I think you're just wrong. Some cheapskate out there will opt for the last automatic 4-banger to get to work instead of a manual, and to keep costs low and the widest appeal the manufacturer will make that an automatic. Also possible it'll be a truck, which will make it almost certainly an automatic.

If by "outlive" you mean that someone will still have a classic car version of one hidden away in their garage for 4th of july parades and special occasions... I think both types will exist in perpetuity in that way. There are classic cars (I'm thinking land yachts here) that are simply better as automatics. They float and cruise and sway and bounce and that's part of their charm. They're not performance vehicles for tearing up a track, but they're still special examples of the car world. Obviously there will always be a manual in the form of a classic Ferrari or whatnot. But I think the automatic gets preserved in much the same way.
 
It depends on what you mean by "outlive" as to whether I think you've got it backwards or just wrong. ;)

If you mean that the last manual sold will be after the last conventional automatic sold, I think you're just wrong. Some cheapskate out there will opt for the last automatic 4-banger to get to work instead of a manual, and to keep costs low and the widest appeal the manufacturer will make that an automatic. Also possible it'll be a truck, which will make it almost certainly an automatic.

If by "outlive" you mean that someone will still have a classic car version of one hidden away in their garage for 4th of july parades and special occasions... I think both types will exist in perpetuity in that way. There are classic cars (I'm thinking land yachts here) that are simply better as automatics. They float and cruise and sway and bounce and that's part of their charm. They're not performance vehicles for tearing up a track, but they're still special examples of the car world. Obviously there will always be a manual in the form of a classic Ferrari or whatnot. But I think the automatic gets preserved in much the same way.

I meant it in both ways. Manuals are both cheaper to produce, simpler, and are most likely to be found in the type of vehicles they will still sell in the Third World after everyone else has moved to EVs. I mean trucks here. Automatic trucks are prevalent here, but not elsewhere.

And no self respecting cheapskate would ever buy an automatic vehicle, at least not in Canada. We are the proud home of the $9999 brand new manual hatchback with plastic wheel covers and roll up windows. And used car buyers are the same, since it’ll either have to visit the shop less often or be easier for they themselves to fix. Especially in this world of Ford DCTs that can’t even last the warranty period and CVT Nissans that are in the junkyard after less than a decade.

The V8 manual pairing is iffy, but I am absolutely certain the last brand new ICE car sold in North America, Europe, or Australia will be a V8. It will be the niche upon a niche. There will be no reason for 4 cylinder engines to exist versus EVs once they come down in price and 6 cylinder (and 10 and 12) engines will be completely extinct (except maybe in the back of Porsche 911s) by 2025. I feel like it’ll probably be a V8 with some sort of electric transaxle.

Of course motorcycles are a different story.
 
Last edited:
I meant it in both ways. Manuals are both cheaper to produce, simpler, and are most likely to be found in the type of vehicles they will still sell in the Third World after everyone else has moved to EVs. I mean trucks here. Automatic trucks are prevalent here, but not elsewhere.

And no self respecting cheapskate would ever buy an automatic vehicle, at least not in Canada. We are the proud home of the $9999 brand new manual hatchback with plastic wheel covers and roll up windows. And used car buyers are the same, since it’ll either have to visit the shop less often or be easier for they themselves to fix. Especially in this world of Ford DCTs that can’t even last the warranty period and CVT Nissans that are in the junkyard after less than a decade.

The V8 manual pairing is iffy, but I am absolutely certain the last brand new ICE vehicle sold in North America, Europe, or Australia will be a V8. It will be the niche upon a niche. There will be no reason for 4 cylinder engines to exist versus EVs and 6 cylinder (and 10 and 12) engines will be completely extinct (except maybe in the back of Porsche 911s) by 2025. I feel like it’ll probably be a V8 with some sort of electric transaxle.

Oh I'm not doubting that said cheapsake would prefer a manual. But it won't be an option. It's not even going to exist in cheapskate-level cars at some point.
 
With manual I have trouble keeping my mind focused on the movement of the other traffic and predicting other drivers’ actions since I’m concentrating on driving the car.

I find it comparatively distracting to negotiate a gearshift out of an automatic with the throttle pedal, or to maintain a speed given the slurred throttle response of a torque converter. I use cruise control liberally with automatics compared to manuals.
It's interesting reading these two contrasting opinions, because I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I don't consciously use any more brain power to operate a manual than I do an automatic - I learned to drive on a manual (like most Europeans) and every car I've ever owned has been manual. It's completely second-nature to me.

But
, I'm undoubtedly more relaxed after certain journeys in an automatic. Even if you're not putting conscious effort into using a manual, you're still expending a little more energy to do so, and a little more brain power even if it's subconsciously. I'd still put the two transmissions into two camps: I'd always opt for manual if I'm driving for pleasure, and I'd tend to go automatic, if I have the choice, for "necessary" journeys.

For me it also depends on the quality of the respective transmission. I've mentioned that before (in other words, I'd always opt for a good auto over a bad manual) but the intricacies of how different transmissions work can play a part.

I'm not overly keen on DCTs because they're not very good at the sort of finite movements that you can do either well with a manual transmission and fine clutch and throttle control, or that a conventional auto slurs away. DCTs tend to be crap at slow-speed stuff, and hunt for gears more than torque converter autos in my experience. Given an auto should be easy to drive, a transmission that makes things more difficult isn't a great thing.

Equally, I've driven some really bad manuals. Either ones that offer none of the mechanical interaction you'd want from a manual (you might as well be playing with your own knob for all the effect it has on the transmission), or ones that are so obstinate that changing gears becomes something to dread (a few classics I've driven fall under this category).
 
I’d say yes, more of this. There’s hardly anything more yawn-inducing than another article about some $2.6MM hypercar that maybe a few dozen people will ever own.

Glad to hear it. đź‘Ť

Lastly, the article mentions the new Supra, seemingly in the context of affordable, fun cars with manual transmissions. It will not be available with a manual transmission, and probably won’t be affordable by most peoples’ definition.

Yeah, at that point I've sort of transitioned into the "fun to drive" part and less about the affordable. Had I mentioned the LFA, which I think had kicked off Toyota's enthusiast stuff for the last decade (at Akio's insistence) that would've all went even further out the window. :lol:

It's not like I expect Toyota to follow through with more of this, but the fact that they did it at all stands out. It's big news compared to apologies citing sales, or some lower-level company representative saying, "don't worry, we're not completely eliminating the manual from our lineup yet."

I mean, it isn't an apology: it's a reason. If a company is building manuals and nobody's buying, then that company is wasting money.

I'll expand on this a little later in the post, though, in response to Joe.

The anti-stall feature is twice as clever as rev-matching, though I personally like the implication from the article's wording that it's an opt-in function. In hindsight, it seems like something that should have been thought up years ago.

I'm glad I'm not alone! I thought that was far, far cooler than rev-matching, and AFAIK Toyota is alone in offering it. Yes, it's an opt-in, but I think that alone could be a huge help in getting people to learn. Starting off in a manual, especially on a hill, is the hardest part of driving one. If there's a safety net, then all the better. My suspicion is that it still would result in choppy progress, but I see that as a good thing too; ideally, it'll encourage people to want to smooth their approach.

Truthfully, driving a manual certainly does not prevent you from driving while distracted, but I believe the lack of engagement with automatics is one cause of apathy about driving. In relaxed settings, an automatic gives you little to do. Combined with how quiet and cocooning modern cars are, it's little wonder people who already aren't interested in cars or driving will seek out distractions.

I don't think making a car more comfortable and relaxing is inherently the problem. I think it's a multi-faceted problem, with the commute itself being part of it. Urban sprawl pushed people into the suburbs with the promise of quick transit into cities via highways, but that's increasingly turning out to not be the case, as people in general can't comprehend the flow of traffic.

It's routinely taken my girlfriend and I two hours to see my parents on weekends. It's not even 60 miles away, and almost exclusively a 400-series highway (60mph limit, usually 70mph cruising speed).

Truth is a majority of vehicles on the market are boring since enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of car buyers.

Really, there's no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual anywhere in the world if they are buying a modern vehicle. The only reason you'd even need to buy a manual is that you like it or you compete in some form of motorsports. Past that, objectively a modern automatic transmission is better than any manual transmission on the market.

Agreed. However, I think the manual can — and as this Toyota event highlighted, should — be looked at as a heart-over-head decision. I think there's actually quite a lot of people out there that would be driving enthusiasts, if the cost of entry wasn't so high.

Most people probably can't afford a commuter car and a fun car. So when they need to buy a new one, they side more with the former. That's fair, I get it. But if they got to really enjoy a good shifter, maybe even out on a track, or a good driving road, I think they'd understand what us weirders talk about. The Corolla acting as a stepping stone into the world of driving for fun is a good move, IMO — and that IM system makes it a more approachable one too.

Not quite the same, but close: everybody I know that's tried my sim rig has loved it, even if they're not fans of driving and/or gaming.

The thing about buying an enthusiast car, at least in Toronto, is that you really have to put in effort to get it out of the city to enjoy it. Sitting in traffic, never getting above 20mph, isn't fun — and I don't believe anybody who says it is. If the chances of having fun in a fun car equate to only about 5% of the time with it, that just might not be enough for some people to justify owning it. We all have different limits though.

I just got out of a (manual) BRZ this morning and while it was a peach from the driving seat, and traffic is light around 10AM in these parts of the city, I still don't think I'd own one if I had a long commute every day.
 
Last edited:
Also, forgot to mention and I don’t think it was in the article:

https://m.drive.com.au/motor-news/toyota-plots-hybrid-corolla-hot-hatch-119130.html

There’s been rumours of a true hot hatch version of this, using a hybrid setup to power the rear axle. Doubt that would offer a manual option but anything is possible.

Anyways, there has literally never been a better time to revive the Corolla Levin name, especially given its appropriateness for a hybrid.
 
Is this Corolla even coming to the UK? Haven't heard anything about it over here :nervous:

Absolutely!

UK-Spec cars come with a choice of two hybrid power unit options or a Turbocharged 1.2 Inline-4. Plus, there is also the surprisingly good-looking Sports Touring model
toyota-corolla-2019-tnga_tcm-3060-1478771.jpg
 
The hybrid versions are a low-key hit in this country I think. Can't remember the last time I saw an Auris that wasn't a hybrid. Led to believe about a third of Yarises sold in Europe are hybrid too.
 
@SiriusR -- I don't believe a manual transmission is for everyone, and of course there are valid reasons to opt for an automatic. However, I do think some people who are uninterested in driving could be surprised if they gave learning manual a chance, like @SlipZtrEm said.

Really, there's no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual anywhere in the world if they are buying a modern vehicle. The only reason you'd even need to buy a manual is that you like it or you compete in some form of motorsports. Past that, objectively a modern automatic transmission is better than any manual transmission on the market.
Not true. I don't prefer manual only because it's more enjoyable. I opt for a manual because I don't consider the convenience of an automatic to be worth the practical differences, especially when that convenience consists merely of subtracting things I don't consider to be an inconvenience. The primary benefit of an automatic, its ease of use, is of no benefit to me.

Meanwhile, other people obviously consider the process of driving manual to be an inconvenience that isn't worth the effort. It's a difference of priorities. That's fine.

I don't hate manuals, but I do hate to see people stuck in outmodded technology forever.
If you want me to adopt something else, first there has to be something better. Technologies that supersede other technologies are transactions of a sort. Frequently, certain qualities are lost in the transaction. I expect that transaction to be a fair deal, where the benefits equal or outweigh the losses. Otherwise it's not progress as far as I'm concerned. An automatic/DCT/CVT is a bad deal because I'm giving up the clutch pedal and mechanical gear selection for nothing of value to me.

Some transactions are easy to accept. For example, I grew up with film cameras, but for my needs a digital camera is way more convenient, with the only significant downside being an appetite for batteries. A photography artist who appreciates the qualities of film may disagree. I am quite happy to collect MP3 files and keep them on USB sticks instead of storing and swapping CDs or other media. Many audiophiles would disagree.

Something forward-thinking is not automatically better for everyone. Like with film photography or vinyl records, which continue to live on because there is a market for their qualities that digital imaging and audio cannot reproduce, sooner or later I expect an automotive manufacturer or two to draw in the manual-transmission market all for themselves -- at which point it will be more cost-effective to continue building them. Who knows, maybe Toyota will be one.
 
Last edited:
The hybrid versions are a low-key hit in this country I think. Can't remember the last time I saw an Auris that wasn't a hybrid. Led to believe about a third of Yarises sold in Europe are hybrid too.

Chances are Toyota will sell even more now that the hybrid power option is being used in a more appealing package, the Hybrid C-HR has also proved to be quite popular.
 
Not true. I don't prefer manual only because it's more enjoyable. I opt for a manual because I don't consider the convenience of an automatic to be worth the practical differences, especially when that convenience consists merely of subtracting things I don't consider to be an inconvenience. The primary benefit of an automatic, its ease of use, is of no benefit to me.

Meanwhile, other people obviously consider the process of driving manual to be an inconvenience that isn't worth the effort. It's a difference of priorities. That's fine.

Objectively it is true. A modern automatic provides better fuel economy, lets the engine run at optimal RPM, and produces less wear and tear on a car (assuming you maintain it like everything). It's objectively a superior piece of technology, even without adding convenience.

Subjectively, it's another matter.

What you're describing goes back to my initial point. The only reason you'd choose a manual transmission is that you like it for whatever reason (which for you seems to be you don't see an automatic worth it). If you were purely choosing something based on technical requirements, then an automatic or really a CVT would win out.
 
If you want me to adopt something else, first there has to be something better.

Better at...

Technology almost never comes as a pure uncompromising improvement. Automatics are better at quite a bit.
 
If you want me to adopt something else, first there has to be something better.
This is where things get fuzzy.

You've touched on it later with your digital/film comparison, and with digital music/vinyl, though in both of those cases I'd expect all but the most vehement of proponents for the older option would still admit the newer version is "better". There are far more benefits to the new way than the old way - liking the warmth and crackle of vinyl or the challenge of working with film rather than digital is very human but by definition also quite irrational, and the same applies to manual gearboxes.

The fuzziness is in what you deem to be "better" based on very personal and irrational (not in a derogatory sense) metrics. By almost all objective means an automatic transmission is "better" - compared to the baseline, it's smoother, quicker, more economical these days, works better with the various other systems found in modern cars etc, and most modern transmissions also give you some kind of manual control on those occasions you wish to select gears yourself. In a modern context, there's also probably not a great deal in it in terms of reliability, weight, cost etc either, at most points in the market. A manual is almost none of these things... it's just kinda fun to use.

Thing is, it's completely okay to like something for irrational reasons. Most of the cars I like aren't the best at what they do - I just like them because I like them. Same goes for manual gearboxes. A good one can enhance my enjoyment of a car more than the absence of one. But that's because I quite like doing archaic things that make me feel more in touch with the machine beneath me, at the expense of it being "better". I also quite like driving cars that don't have power steering (and own one as a result), but I wouldn't for a second want to suggest it's better. Most of the time it's a pain in the butt...
 
The fuzziness is in what you deem to be "better" based on very personal and irrational (not in a derogatory sense) metrics. By almost all objective means an automatic transmission is "better" - compared to the baseline, it's smoother, quicker, more economical these days, works better with the various other systems found in modern cars etc, and most modern transmissions also give you some kind of manual control on those occasions you wish to select gears yourself.
I know it's personal, because that's the whole point. What you guys can't seem to understand is that it's not ONLY for the sake of FahrvergnĂĽgen. As far as I'm concerned, the unique benefits of a manual are practical reasons to drive one -- including strategies for winter driving, bump-starting in a pinch, and its exaggerated-but-real anti-theft value, just to name a few. So to say there's "no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual" is false. I'm someone. I have practical reasons. I'm well aware they don't matter much to others, but they're my reasons.

I freely acknowledge the quantifiable advantages of an automatic, but they do not outweigh my reasons to drive a manual. Much like how extra cargo room may be important enough to call for a larger vehicle that is also not as smooth, quick, or fuel efficient as a smaller car. The point of the transaction analogy is that an automatic/DCT/CVT does not offer me enough value in return for giving up the unique benefits of a manual, plus the FahrvergnĂĽgen factor. By my estimation, a manual is better. Not better for you, or @Danoff, or @Joey D, or whoever else. Just better for me.
 

Latest Posts

Back