The next-gen MX-5 Miata thread

[SlipZtrEm]

It still wouldn't be able to be made less thirsty or less polluting than a 1.6L SkyActiv, though.

800kg? What sort of mass-produced cars actually hit that these days outside of the Smart? Even the Elise was over that, and that was before the recent chassis extension. I'd be impressed, for sure, but I can't imagine Mazda getting comfortably under 1000kg without a pretty hefty price bump.

 

[YSSMAN]

Diesel? In a cabriolet? Just how drunk are they?

Actually, I think it's a fantastic idea. Mazda has gone on to prove that a diesel engine doesn't have to be a clunky, heavy-handed effort, and in this new generation of automobiles, I don't think it's an entirely outrageous idea. Mazda's new SkyActiv diesels are supposed to be remarkably close to standard petrol engines, and in the right tune of convertible, it'd make for an interesting sporting drive. If the Volkswagen GTD is any indication, I don't think this is an idea that will be going away.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

It still wouldn't be able to be made less thirsty or less polluting than a 1.6L SkyActiv, though.

800kg? What sort of mass-produced cars actually hit that these days outside of the Smart? Even the Elise was over that, and that was before the recent chassis extension. I'd be impressed, for sure, but I can't imagine Mazda getting comfortably under 1000kg without a pretty hefty price bump.

My 4 door, 4 passenger Mazda2 is just 1000kg and that's with 7 airbags and a bodyshell that was originally designed by Ford. Given a completely bespoke, 2 door roadster platform, I don't see 800kg being unreasonable. Mazda has always been good about reducing weight; they have very creative engineers. The All-steel FD3S RX-7 was actually lighter than the mostly-aluminum NSX by a not-so-insignificant 100kg!

 

[Imari]

Actually, I think it's a fantastic idea. Mazda has gone on to prove that a diesel engine doesn't have to be a clunky, heavy-handed effort, and in this new generation of automobiles, I don't think it's an entirely outrageous idea. Mazda's new SkyActiv diesels are supposed to be remarkably close to standard petrol engines, and in the right tune of convertible, it'd make for an interesting sporting drive. If the Volkswagen GTD is any indication, I don't think this is an idea that will be going away.

As a current NA MX5 owner, I'd have to say that the major turn off of a diesel for me would be the sound. The burble of a little 4 cylinder as you tootle along country roads with the roof down is a major part of the experience, even if you're just being a casual driver.

I'm yet to hear a diesel engine that makes me go "Ooh, that's a nice noise". Diesels can be great engines, and they've progressed a long way in the last ten years from being only suitable for utility vehicles and trucks, but they hardly inspire the same sort of emotion as a nice sounding petrol engine.

I wait for Mazda to prove me wrong and engineer an exhaust that sounds awesome.

 

[homeforsummer]

As a current NA MX5 owner, I'd have to say that the major turn off of a diesel for me would be the sound. The burble of a little 4 cylinder as you tootle along country roads with the roof down is a major part of the experience, even if you're just being a casual driver.

Agree wholeheartedly on this, though it's worth remembering that many MX-5s are originally bought not for the sound, handling or whatever, but for the way they look and because the roof comes off. I've seen enough diesel convertibles tootling around that I can see a Mazda version selling perfectly well.

As long as they still offer a petrol version for enthusiasts they can sell all the diesel versions they like.

 

[niky]

If they can make it rev to over 5k, why not? The trademark sound of the NA owed a lot to anal-retentive exhaust tuning, so it might be possible to do something similar for a turbodiesel.

The 800kg weight has been bandied about for a while, now. I'm guessing it's possible with a 1.6, but difficult. 900kg may be more realistic. But definitely not at the same exterior size.

 

[homeforsummer]

If they can make it rev to over 5k, why not? The trademark sound of the NA owed a lot to anal-retentive exhaust tuning, so it might be possible to do something similar for a turbodiesel.

There are tangibles and intangibles to induction, engine and exhaust sound though, and I've not yet driven a single diesel that doesn't at some point sound a bit diesely. They just don't score on that intangible feeling that makes you want to get in and drive.

Five cylinders and upwards diesels start to have their own distinct tone which can be quite pleasant (the TDV8 in Range Rovers is an excellent and satisfying engine), and naturally they get smoother as you start chucking more cylinders at them. The closest I've heard to a sporty-sounding four-cylinder diesel is (perhaps not surprisingly) Alfa Romeo's old 1.9 JTD engine.

But there's one thing you can never really mask or tune with a 4-pot diesel, particularly if the roof comes off, which is the clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter-clatter they make at idle.

Oddly, I think I was probably more open-minded to diesels before I'd driven a bunch of them. There are plenty I'd buy as daily drivers or even from a power perspective, but I've not yet encountered one that I could hand on heart say I'd buy to have fun with.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

2 stroke diesels can sound pretty awesome:

4cylinder:



V6:
Go to the 2:45 mark in this one for some proper Detroit Diesel screaming.

This one sounds pretty science fiction, I like!



And the epic 8V53


I have a fetish for 2 stroke diesels, leave me alone.

 

[homeforsummer]

Those do sound pretty good, but I cannot begin to imagine what horrific things are being thrown out of the tailpipe*. Two-stroke gasoline engines are bad enough for that (though they do smell lovely - something I suspect cannot be said of a two-stroke diesel...).




* Apart from in the last vid. That one is pretty clear...

 

[YSSMAN]

Oddly, I think I was probably more open-minded to diesels before I'd driven a bunch of them. There are plenty I'd buy as daily drivers or even from a power perspective, but I've not yet encountered one that I could hand on heart say I'd buy to have fun with.

That might be the problem with the Yanks, then. We've gone so long without diesels, and the only time we ever get them, they're the gussied up versions that have been tweaked to fit our tastes. Moreover, it seems like they're more of a novelty than an actual alternative in most cases. By that I mean, you see a diesel Jetta, you hear the clatter, and say to your friends, "Ohhh, that's a diesel Jetta!"

Either way, now that Mazda is campaigning SkyActiv diesels here in the US in ALMS/Rolex, I'm sure they'll find some way to make them sound fantastic.

 

[interpolfan11]

800kg is insane. I have a feeling that isn't possible without the car costing an unfeasible amount.

 

[analog]

I doubt they'll use 'exotic' materials like carbonfibre to cut the weight down, since Mazda has been obsessed with weight in recent years, maybe they've by now found new construction methods using familiar cheaper materials (but less of it) to be eventually used on all their cars and the MX5 being the perfect showcase for it (and remember 800kg being the target weight, basically an ambition).

Or they've learned from their partners history (Alfa Sud, etc.) how to gradually and progressively make the car lighter automatically as time passes by so it eventually reaches 800kg.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think they'll have to skimp on safety options if they want to get anywhere close to 800 kg. That said, nobody buys an MX5 for safety.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I think they'll have to skimp on safety options if they want to get anywhere close to 800 kg. That said, nobody buys an MX5 for safety.

I'm quite sure they won't as that would be morally questionable.

I have faith the engineers can do it, it just means more money going into R&D but they'll no doubt use that knowledge on other products too.

 

[niky]

They don't sound as sweet as a good gasser, but It may be possible to find an exhaust tune that mellows out the guttural roar of the exhaust. The clatter might be difficult to tackle, considering the next MX5 will have to be lightweight, which means less sound insulation.

 

[Dennisch]

Or they've learned from their partners history (Alfa Sud, etc.) how to gradually and progressively make the car lighter automatically as time passes by so it eventually reaches 800kg.

Quoted. For rust.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Oh hey! Finally a Miata mule running around!

Motor Authority's spy photographers have just scored these images of what could be the upcoming Mazda MX-5 Miata--a roadster that will also spawn a new Alfa Romeo Spider.

The prototype was spotted while testing at Chrysler's headquarters in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Running on a current-generation Mazda MX-5 body, the mule has bodywork add-ons that suggest the future hard points of the next-generation two-seater.

Spies report that the car's front overhang seems to have grown, possibly to meet tougher European pedestrian-safety standards. They note the wheelbase appears to be longer than today's car as well.

Given Mazda's emphasis on weight reduction on its current lineup -- from the Mazda 3 compact car to the Mazda 6 mid-size sedan--we expect similar measures to keep a tight rein on the new MX-5's curb weight, too.

As for performance, there is no solid information, though earlier reports suggested a turbocharged 1.3-liter four-cylinder engine could be the powerplant for Mazda's model.

The Miata replacement is due by 2015; Alfa's version could be dubbed the 2C when it arrives for the 2016 model year.

Motor Authority

^ Sounds promising, but it seems like Mazda loves its duct tape!

 

[RocZX]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111641

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Tried searching, oh well...mods please merge thread...

 

[Giygas]

In other news, that may be the scariest looking prototype i've ever seen.

 

[dsgerbc]

In motorsports they call it 'racing tape'

 

[CodeRedR51]

The whole longer wheelbase thing confuses me, thought they were going to make the car smaller? But it's about damn time we start seeing things. Getting tired of waiting.

 

[Giygas]

In motorsports they call it 'racing tape'

Not so much the tape, but the mock headlights stick out like it sat on a pin or something.

This is a very interesting concept with the Mazda/Alfa relationship, though.

 

[BKGlover]

It looks like it molting or something.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Testing at the 'Ring. Drivetrain mule, obviously.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/mazda-mx-5-miata-alfa-romeo-spy-shots/

 

[homeforsummer]

Good stuff. I just want one of them to release a concept so we've a better clue of overall proportions, and indeed styling.

 

[Keef]

2 stroke diesels can sound pretty awesome:

4cylinder:

I just Instagrammed that because it's the most radical thing I've heard or seen or heard and seen in my life.

 

[Youngun]

Hope it looks a bit more Alfa-ish is the design phase. But Turbo Turbo Turbo please, just one model and ill be happy. But will this be going up against Hondas S660 and bmws new Z2?

 

[homeforsummer]

It'll be more or less the same market as the current one. Somewhere below the FRS/BRZ/86 I suspect. Though with a few different engines touted there may be a fair range of them.

S660 is another class below that, since it appears to be a kei car. Z2 a more likely rival but being a BMW it'll no doubt be more expensive too.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Hope it looks a bit more Alfa-ish is the design phase. But Turbo Turbo Turbo please, just one model and ill be happy. But will this be going up against Hondas S660 and bmws new Z2?

I assume the cars will have their own designs, and won't be like the FR-S/BRZ twins where there are minor differences.