The penalty system can't be all bad now. What good has penalties brought to Gran Turismo Sport?

I've mentioned this in a previous thread but I do feel how you make contact makes a difference , keep braking and keep steering lock on , in other words do your best to avoid the incident and I think the penalty system is ok, it's get it wrong now and again but I used to race in a marshalled league and after incidents the arguments would go on for ages regarding who was at fault, nothing will ever be perfect , the times you loose control then come back on loosing lots of time and then still getting a panelty sucks a bit, but hey , don't looose control, so all in all I think the system in on the right lines just keep tweaking it, as a driver I race hard, try to keep as clean as possible and am starting to care less what my ratings are ( I'm DR-A SR-S ) . Where I think they went wrong is with no progression as to what you race , if people had to start in slow cars and only allowed to enter faster cars once they had worked there way cleanly through online races there might have been more incentive to learn some race crafts which for me is the biggest cause of most incidents , most people just don't know how to race , either offensively or defensively and just being quicker doesn't mean you have a right to just barge your way through, something I see much more when racing against the faster guys sadly .
 
Some people seem to know that you can wiggle your way through on the inside on the last corner of Nürburgring GP without needing any overlap pre-corner and without getting a penalty. That is a problem, in an online game scenario, every loophole of the refereeing system will get abused.

On the other hand, if there is some slight contact because of different braking points and no car is really affected by the contact, the system shouldn't hand out a penalty. This is a problem atm that needs to be fixed.

All in all, I like what PD is doing with sport mode and the penalty system. I had some great online races outside of any organized leagues and that is more than a lot of racing games can claim for themselves.
 
cluca
There is nothing good about this penalty system.
This system needs three things
1. Stop&Go
2. Drive-through penalty
3. Black flag after two laps if he does not pit or +20s at end of race (in short daily races)


Otherwise my list of "penalty system bull****ery" will grow indefinitely
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbPPvFn08YSW5wINbITk8n_nBC8j64Zo
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Taking pit penalties wouldn't work imo. If this was the case some would be in every lap, thys being a waste of time. Time added at end is the better solutuon of the two.
 
cluca
There is nothing good about this penalty system.
This system needs three things
1. Stop&Go
2. Drive-through penalty
3. Black flag after two laps if he does not pit or +20s at end of race (in short daily races)


Otherwise my list of "penalty system bull****ery" will grow indefinitely
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbPPvFn08YSW5wINbITk8n_nBC8j64Zo
Click to expand...

would have agreed but for the fact that the system that assigns blame itself has issues. Just imagine having to drive thru for no fault of your own :D
 
cluca
There is nothing good about this penalty system.
This system needs three things
1. Stop&Go
2. Drive-through penalty
3. Black flag after two laps if he does not pit or +20s at end of race (in short daily races)


Otherwise my list of "penalty system bull****ery" will grow indefinitely
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbPPvFn08YSW5wINbITk8n_nBC8j64Zo
Click to expand...
I have now just shortly watched your Nos video where you get 4 seconds for bumping the car in front of you while braking for the Hohenrain Schikane during race start.

- Your braking point is fine for hotlapping, but very optimistic when having four or five cars directly in front.
- It looks like you are causing a chain reaction pushing the mustang in the blue car in front of it which is then taking out the car in front. If that is indeed the case (other camera angles necessary to judge it), 4 seconds is not enough penalty time. Should be at least 10 then.
 
Speaking as someone who has been roundly ****ed by the system more than once as you can see in my profile, I mostly like it and I don't really think much needs to be changed. For the most part it works well, at least in the top split daily rooms. However I do think it's all too easy to lose massive amounts of DR for stringing together a couple of minor errors or some bad luck. When it comes down to it though I'd much rather race in GT sport than any other console sim
 
Brzlav
I have now just shortly watched your Nos video where you get 4 seconds for bumping the car in front of you while braking for the Hohenrain Schikane during race start.

- Your braking point is fine for hotlapping, but very optimistic when having four or five cars directly in front.
- It looks like you are causing a chain reaction pushing the mustang in the blue car in front of it which is then taking out the car in front. If that is indeed the case (other camera angles necessary to judge it), 4 seconds is not enough penalty time. Should be at least 10 then.
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I agree with this penalty (but Mustang did not have contact with Aston, collision was light and we both brake) although in Monza (next clip in list) other driver has received only 3sec for huge chain reaction creating a crash with max speed.
What about other penalties (at Nurburgring) that went to my account?


There are a lot of unclear penalties in the game.
 
cluca
I agree with this penalty (but Mustang did not have contact with Aston, collision was light and we both brake) although in Monza (next clip in list) other driver has received only 3sec for huge chain reaction creating a crash with max speed.
What about other penalties (at Nurburgring) that went to my account?


There are a lot of unclear penalties in the game.
Click to expand...
Haven't looked at the other videos. The second NOS penalty is BS.

I've had my share of weird penalties*, but I think, even with the penalty system being like it is atm, the good still outweighs the bad. It might be a matter of selective perception for some people as the unfair penalties do stay longer in one's memory.

*Lately on NR GP, I had a fair battle with a Greek driver. He was behind me and I needed to defend a bit.
When I messed up the last corner loosing a lot of exit speed, I didn't go on a defending line on my way to the hairpin and stayed on the left. Thinking he was to my right, I braked a little earlier than usual so that I could react if he messed up his braking point. However, he stayed behind me and because of my earlier braking point, he very gently tapped me not at all upsetting my car - and received a ridiculous 10 second penalty...
 
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Crazybutt198
Tell me about it. Bored of complainers. Made an anti-hate penalty thread (quickly got deleted, was a bit unsavoury).

Was not my intention to have folk complain but beggars can't be choosers.

The penalty system is annoying at times but most of the time it can benefit me being a Lowly mid B level player.
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I like how tough the penalties have become. Especially with needing to slow right down to get rid of them but probably 90% of my penalties have come from someone messing up a pass, turning in on me or me slowing down to pass an incident (yellow flags etc) and getting hit on the way through by people capitalising on it.

Hard to be complementary about a system that punishes the genuinely clean driver.
 
I had taken a couple months off from racing and moved onto another game for a while. Got back into again about 2 weeks ago and it is a huge difference from before I stopped racing for a bit. I think they do better with Ghosting and the penalties given is also much better. Just my 2 cents
 
It's crap and doesn't work it needs a complete revamp, now I've no idea how it can be done but it needs it. I've been wronged by it to many times to see any good in it. I've hit ghosted cars, been rammed off track even slightly rubbed another driver and I've gotten punished. I don't mind hard fair racing in fact it's more fun.
I'm slowly getting fed up with GT Sport which is a shame because when I do get a good race or 2 I adore it.
 
fastone371
Look at it a different way though, how often are you starting in 10-14 position? It's real easy to have someone knock you off track back there then you are fighting with guys 17-20 and your real problems begin. I'm at a point now that I'm grouped with many A and A+ drivers which puts me mid field. Last night I was in 8th and some idiot is behind and to the side of me, he cuts the chicane and hits my rear bumper, I spin and now I am dead last in 18th and trying to pass cars that will lollygag mid apex, it's almost like getting brake checked mod corner
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Yeah you're right there :guilty:
 
Mirror_man
That is the only thing good about it... but some even use that...the abudant flaws in that system... cheating to help them to win races...
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It appears if you and your opponent have a big gap on 3rd that you can actually ram the guy in front into the kitty litter and you will assume the lead even after serving your penalty. That is a broken penalty system, I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.
 
Crazy Taylor
On Monza I went off track more often than not, letting the car/s past thus not getting a penalty. I like the way the penalty system does things like that.
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This is the way I view the penalty system as well.

The penalty system works for me because when I race it puts me in the mind frame to avoid them at all cost. I don't know how many times I've been having a good close race, only to have the driver in front of me catch a little grass with a rear wheel. :scared: Then go barreling back and forth across the track. I'll muck up my race by driving off the track instead of hitting them and taking the penalty. :lol:
 
It's so bad it puts me out of racing hard against anyone, I can't even try to defend my position without worrying about getting 3 seconds penalty out of absolutely nowhere, I have to drive passively and even forfeit my line in some corners if I see someone going for an overtake on the inside.

Overtaking? Only on straight lines.

Let's not forget the ******** about brake-checking, it's ridiculous how a game of this scope and with a FIA license still can't figure out where and when it's OK for someone to brake and not be penalized, quite aggravating because the game already knows about braking points.

This isn't racing, at all.
 
Agreed. I am so tired of hearing people whine about the penalty system. The penalty system works well. If you don't make contact, and you don't cut corners, you won't get a penalty. Period. Obviously there are other issues to tackle....brake checking, being bumped off, etc. Improvements are needed for these areas, but a lot of the complaints I read about it are down to intent, which the system (any system) will never be able to account for. "I bumped this guy in front of me by accident and I got a penalty!!" That is the system working properly. It is never going to be able to tell intent for things like that. You make contact, you should get a penalty. The idea of the ranking system is you should eventually get to race with people that won't brake check you, etc (although we know there will always be a few). To judge intent, we would need a human marshall for each race, and even then a lot of people disagree with the real ones in F1, etc. I'm not saying the penalty system is perfect, by any means, but I think it works well for a $60 game on a $400 console. It seems to me people just need a reason to complain, and will do so no matter what PD do. The penalty system makes the online racing MUCH more fair, even if it is not perfect. Look at the difference between GT Sport and Forza 7 online. Give me the GTS penalty system any day.
 
Pedinhuh
It's so bad it puts me out of racing hard against anyone, I can't even try to defend my position without worrying about getting 3 seconds penalty out of absolutely nowhere, I have to drive passively and even forfeit my line in some corners if I see someone going for an overtake on the inside.

Overtaking? Only on straight lines.

Let's not forget the ******** about brake-checking, it's ridiculous how a game of this scope and with a FIA license still can't figure out where and when it's OK for someone to brake and not be penalized, quite aggravating because the game already knows about braking points.

This isn't racing, at all.
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Why are you not defending the inside line? You can't expect to be let to hotlap and hog the road.

Why are you hanging onto the rear bumper of the car in front? You could instead find a line that's gets you more speed on the straight.

Both these cases its your own fault but you put the blame on the game.
 
Not perfect but overall I think the penalty system has been incredibly beneficial. I see other games and they’re often absolute wreckfests because there’s very little consequence.

I think the fact that we complain about the penalty system shows that many of us do care about our SR, DR and overall just doing well and trying to have good races.
 
Carzz
I don´t know how to improve the penalty system, but for me is not stopping dirty drivers to be the #1 in races won, just check this data that I found.

(1,605 wins) https://www.jasonguernsey.net/gts/leaderboards

(152 days and in just 3 of those, he got "S" in SR) http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=3725356
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That's so extreme it's just funny. But I wouldn't worry about people like that, if a DR A+ player tanked their DR rating down to C or B on purpose they'd have a 100% win rate, it doesn't really mean anything important. No one is respecting that guy just because he won 1500 races against kids and teenagers. If anything I think it's kind of astonishing that he started on pole almost 3000 times and only turned half of those into a race win
 
inri
That's so extreme it's just funny. But I wouldn't worry about people like that, if a DR A+ player tanked their DR rating down to C or B on purpose they'd have a 100% win rate, it doesn't really mean anything important. No one is respecting that guy just because he won 1500 races against kids and teenagers. If anything I think it's kind of astonishing that he started on pole almost 3000 times and only turned half of those into a race win
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With those dirty lobbies, he probably got rammed off the first corner 2000 times:lol:
 
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Azerach
Why are you not defending the inside line? You can't expect to be let to hotlap and hog the road.

Why are you hanging onto the rear bumper of the car in front? You could instead find a line that's gets you more speed on the straight.

Both these cases its your own fault but you put the blame on the game.
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I AM defending the inside line, but whenever that happens the game thinks I'm purposely closing the door on my opponent, even though I have the right of way (I never close the door if my opponent is on the inside as I look to my radar before turning, but **** can happen)

I'm not hogging their back bumper, I'm DRAFTING! that is a valid strategy to save fuel and move for a overtake, the problem is that it also makes me vulnerable to brake checks as well, and of course I'm the one penalized for it, even though the guy in front can brake outside the braking zones and walk away unpunished.

All of these are part of racing, but hey feel free to judge me without knowing **** if that makes you feel better.
 
Crazy Taylor
Taking pit penalties wouldn't work imo. If this was the case some would be in every lap, thys being a waste of time. Time added at end is the better solutuon of the two.
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Maybe that would prevent others from sticking their nose in at every corner even though they have no chance at passing. I just dont understand these guys that will try to go thru a chicane with only 2 feet of overlap, what do they think they may possibly gain other than causing a wreck that will get both cars penalties? Or the people that go charging thru T1 L1 like they are going to make up 10 spots in the first corner, even if they did get thru clean odds are they would not be capable of maintaining that position otherwise they wouldn't be starting that far back in the first place. There are just way too many overly optimistic drivers out there who do nothing but cause these boards to fill up with complaints about the penalty system. If someone is only fast enough to Q10th and finish 10th what's wrong with that? To me that means I need to practice more and find more speed.
 
Carzz
I don´t know how to improve the penalty system, but for me is not stopping dirty drivers to be the #1 in races won, just check this data that I found.

(1,605 wins) https://www.jasonguernsey.net/gts/leaderboards

(152 days and in just 3 of those, he got "S" in SR) http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=3725356
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I wish they would show us the SR change of all participants so we can tell if someone is raging down the ladder. Either a red S or a blue S before the race would be at least a hint if they were coming up or down from a previous SR score.
 
fastone371
the people that go charging thru T1 L1 like they are going to make up 10 spots in the first corner,
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I was about to joke that there might be people who do think they can do that because the AI allows them to do so offline, but if you think about it this might actually be a legitimate reason

All we have are these etiquette videos so far, and before we can watch them all we can do is GT League and Arcade, really. GTPers aside, I'm pretty sure most of the people who venture into Sport mode didn't really buy GTS for it, but rather are casual players who decided to join in the fray. Before Sport mode they were probably racing against all these AI that are so slow through T1 L1 you can literally make 10 positions out of it. This could become a habit, and habits die hard. I could say the same to people who also bought past iterations of the game but only played offline, and decided to go online only after GTS

While the penalty system itself does needs some fixing, maybe improving the AI can contribute to lessen the problem by eliminating the possibility of casual players from developing this habit
 
05XR8
The way penalties are implemented, I'm trying to see the good in it, but can't. Not because I don't want them. In the game. Rather, how PD did it.

For years, PD Hve used the auto drive slow you down method. That would work with this game. It's more incentive to race clean as that's fair.

It's wrong, when you get knocked off track and someone gets a 10 second penalty. They are free to make time, while your car gets reset some seconds later. Having players ghost and auto drive right away, may be a fair solution.

However, it's just like real racing. Racers do get served penalties post race. Podiums are stripped, racers may have finished top 10 and a demoted to last. This game though, it doesn't balance out. Had they also added damage and auto drive, THEN, I think we'd see less carnage from dirty drivers.
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Some great points here.

Being literally railroaded off of the track and into the wall and taken completely out of the race, while the person who did that gets to just drive and still be in the race is total B.S. to me.

I think if they implemented mechanical damage of some sort (heck, it is an option in the custom races!), then I think we'd get a lot more clean races.
 

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