The Perfect Circuit

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
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Hammerhead Garage
Okay, so we've got a thread for the perfect seasn calendar, right? Well, in my usual trawling of the interweb, I found "Lewis Hamilton's Supercircuit", a promotional thing he did with Mobil where he cut-and-paste parts of various circuits together to form what he would consider to be the ultimate in racing venues. Unfortunate, Lewis wasn't too imaginitive about it: every single turn was quick; the only really technical one he added was Tabac from Monaco. So I figure this is the perfect opportunity to out-do Hamilton and create our own variation of the perfect Formula One circuit.

As a rule, please try and limit yourself to Formula One circuits past and present. I know the temptation is there to run the Corscrew into Eau Rouge and then the Dipper, but if everyone does that, it's not going to be very imaginitive.

This is my take: from the Start/Finish line, the usual drag race takes us down to Maggots-Becketts-Chapel, lifted from Silverstone. Despite my general dislike of airfield circuits because they're usually flat, these five corners rank amng some of my favourite on the calendar, because of the way the cars have to move from one side of the circuit to the other at full speed to take the best line.

After that complex, it's through the Dunlop and double-apex Denger Curves from Suzuka, two more great corners, especially because of the slight lateral movement through Denger; it always looks like the cars are going to spin out.

The cars build up a bit of speed here, and the drivers are going to need to build up some courage to boot, because then we go into the Masta Kink from the old Spa circuit, an awesomely-fast chicane.

Then it's time for another favourite, the Breidscheid/Ex-Muhle combination from the Nordschelife. I know it's only a video game, but these ae two of my favourie corners in Gran Turismo 4, and the scene of some of my most daring overtaking moves. I get these corners; they have a certain rhythm.

Next, we're borrowing from Sakhir; it might be a bit odd to take from a Tilke-drome, but the corners in question are Turns 9 and 10. These are unique, because Turn 10 is one of the most critical on the circuit, but to get it right, you have to brake and turn at the same time through the previous corner.

After this, it's Turns 10 and 11 from Yas Island; another odd choice, but I can see what the intention is here: the very long left leading into a very tight left is going to be one of the most important parts of the lap.

The next corner is Pouhon, which I think has superseded Eau Rouge as the best corner at Spa (Eau Rouge's challenge has been dimished by a resurfacing and technology). However, for the sake of getting back to the Start/Finish Line, the double-apex left-hander - taken as one blind corner - is now a right-hander.

And just to make things more challenging, Pouhon Reverse will open onto Turns 12, 13 and 14 from Sepang, one of Tilkes finest corner combinations. The exit from 12 puts you way off-line for 13 and deeply affects 14, and there's no one way to take them all perfectly. Instead, you have to sacrifice two corners and take a less-than-optimal line to take your chosen bend; no two drivers have the same line through here, and it really does make or break a lap.

To slow the cars down a bit - and to keep the drivers on their toes - we drop down into Wehrseifen also taken from the Nurburgring, which is normally a right followed by a long, tight left and another right, but run in reverse here.

And because it's not over yet, they'll have to negotiate Wippermann-Eschbach-Brunnchen, a very fast, flowing downhill combination from the same circuit as Wehrseifen.

Finally, we have another corner from Suzuka: Spoon, the oddly-shaped double left-hander before the flyover and 130R; here, it opens onto the Start/Finish Straight, and getting a good line through here is critical as it will affect your speed all the way down the straight and through the first corners.

Now, normally, I'd draw up a map ... but my skills with graphics programs - combined with the fact that MS Paint is the only thing available to me - means that I'm terrible. But if someone would like to do a quick mock-up, I'd love to see how it would play out (you may need to add some straights and bits and pieces to make it work). Actually, I'm really hoping that somebody can.

Your turn.
 
I'd go with the start/finish straight leading into the Tarzan Hairpin from Zandvoort as turn one followed by a short straight back towards the start-line and then Cascades from Oulton Park Island or International version followed by another short straight into Paddock Hill Bend from Brands Hatch.

This would lead onto a long straight ending in the pre chicane Woodcote corner from Silverstone. A medium straight would then lead into the Spoon Curve not from Suzuka but from Brasilia track.

This would be followed by a short straight and the 130R corner from Suzuka leading to another short straight and then the final corner from Valencia (Bike track not the F1 road course) This would have the drivers turning right to take a left hander as the corner is scooped outwards before turning back in as a fast corner ending in a hairpin bend.

I'd finish it off with a couple of Brand Hatch/Donington Park 90 degree off camber, over the brow of a hill corners leading to the final corner which would be the final corner from Sugo without the chicane.
 
Then it's time for another favourite, the Breidscheid/Ex-Muhle combination from the Nordschelife. I know it's only a video game, but these ae two of my favourie corners in Gran Turismo 4, and the scene of some of my most daring overtaking moves. I get these corners; they have a certain rhythm.

:scared: F1 cars would break in half over the bumps going into the breaking zone of ex-muhle.

If there was one section of the Nordschleife that I would put as part of the perfect track, it would be the winding section from Hohe-acht through Wipperman, Eschbach, and Brunn-chen.
 
I tryed shopping together a mock-up of your track DYR but for the life of me I can't get it to fit together in a way that completes a circuit. But it does look to be some awesome corner sequences along the way.
 
[FPV]Rusty;3390236
:scared: F1 cars would break in half over the bumps going into the breaking zone of ex-muhle.
It would be resurfaced.

[FPV]Rusty;3390236
If there was one section of the Nordschleife that I would put as part of the perfect track, it would be the winding section from Hohe-acht through Wipperman, Eschbach, and Brunn-chen.
Yeah, I've got that.

you should have laguna seca turn 8 i think or known as the corkscrew
Ugh, where's your taste? The Corkscrew is over-rated, nothing more than a poor-man's Eau Rouge. And it's far too dangerous for F1; you could resurface Ex-Muhle, but there's nothing you could do about the Corckscrew. It sucks.
 
Interesting variety of corners mentioned, especially Cascades from Oulton Park 👍

Some random corners stuck together, :lol: :
Start/finish straight into turn 1 at Montjuïc circuit
Esses and Dunlop from Suzuka
Hilltop leading into Knickerbrook and on over City Hall from Oulton Park
Turns 5 and 6 from Infineon Raceway
Porsche Curves from Le Mans
Maggotts and Beckets from Silverstone
Grand Hotel Hairpin from Monaco, but switched from sloping down to sloping up.
Blanchimont from Spa-francorchamps
Finally finishing in curve around back to the start finish straight using the 2nd corner reversed from 2010 plans of Donington park.
 
dangerous = exciting to watch
No, there's a difference. See, because of the angle the coner drops away at and the camber, the cars would be travelling with one wheel - the front-right - in the air. And Formula One cars only really work when they're on terra firma; the aerodynamics are usesless once they're airborne. Or effectively airborne, as would be the case with the Corkscrew. As they're have one of their front wheels in the air, they'd have trouble steering and the driver would likely be demoted to passenger as they'd have vry little control over it. Or maybe you just want another Imola 1994.

Besies, if you'd bothered to read the opening post, I clearly said NOT to use circuits like Laguna Seca because they haven't been used as a part of the championship.
 
Okay, so we've got a thread for the perfect seasn calendar, right? Well, in my usual trawling of the interweb, I found "Lewis Hamilton's Supercircuit", a promotional thing he did with Mobil where he cut-and-paste parts of various circuits together to form what he would consider to be the ultimate in racing venues. Unfortunate, Lewis wasn't too imaginitive about it: every single turn was quick; the only really technical one he added was Tabac from Monaco.


Here is where i stopped reading. Do u have to pick out everything that Lewis does and stomp it in the ground?

Talk about fans.

:yuck:
 
Here is where i stopped reading. Do u have to pick out everything that Lewis does and stomp it in the ground?
Actually, in this case I think it's pretty justified. He started with Istanbul's Turn 8 and moved on to Estoril from Mangy-Cours, through Suzuka's 130R and then Eau Rouge (the obvious choice), Tabac from Monaco, then First Corner from Suzuka, Pouhon, Casino, Mergulho and finishing with Copse; he describesal of them as being high-speed or taken fat-out. Where are the braking zones? Take any circuit on the calendar, and there's at least one corner that you have to approach at less than full tilt. Hamilton's circuit may have been demanding on the driver, but there's nowhere to pass under braking, which is where most passing takes place. Here's the video if you don't believe me.
 
I dont care abuot the vid or the circuit, it just u have to nittpick everything what Lewis does.
 
No, Do you race? has a valid point. Every other phrase Hamilton uses to describe his circuit is "Flat out". It's definitely not the most exciting mock up I've seen, certainly.
 
I dont care abuot the vid or the circuit, it just u have to nittpick everything what Lewis does.

Well, its a bit OTT to nitpick this thread too....and most of the criticsm of Lewis is unsurprising at the moment anyway, there are many reasons why people have a hard time liking the guy...but thats all off topic and for another thread.
 
I dont care abuot the vid or the circuit, it just u have to nittpick everything what Lewis does.
And if it were any other driver who composed the "Supercircuit" from Button to Massa to Buemi to Fisichella, I'd stll be making the same criticism.
 
No, there's a difference. See, because of the angle the coner drops away at and the camber, the cars would be travelling with one wheel - the front-right - in the air. And Formula One cars only really work when they're on terra firma; the aerodynamics are usesless once they're airborne. Or effectively airborne, as would be the case with the Corkscrew. As they're have one of their front wheels in the air, they'd have trouble steering and the driver would likely be demoted to passenger as they'd have vry little control over it. Or maybe you just want another Imola 1994.

Besies, if you'd bothered to read the opening post, I clearly said NOT to use circuits like Laguna Seca because they haven't been used as a part of the championship.
i was born 1993 so please enlighten me on what happen was it senna ? or barrichlo who flew in to a wall and the corkscrew would have to be taken slow so it would have huge overtaking potential
 
i was born 1993 so please enlighten me on what happen was it senna ? or barrichlo who flew in to a wall and the corkscrew would have to be taken slow so it would have huge overtaking potential

Both. There were 3 on track accidents (Barrichello, Ratzenberger and Senna) that weekend plus another one in the pits I believe.
Very bad weekend.

Though to answer the question, Barrichello was the one that ended up going air borne into the barrier, he was very lucky to survive, especially considering what happened later in the weekend.
 
Sorry about the off-topicness, but the Corkscrew is not a dangerous corner - it is a difficult corner. Just make the runoff area bigger so when a driver crashes he is not injured.

If you use the "cars do not work properly in the air" excuse then why does mr Tilke insist on putting ludicrously high curbs on the chicanes?
 
If you use the "cars do not work properly in the air" excuse then why does mr Tilke insist on putting ludicrously high curbs on the chicanes?
To force the drivers to drive on the tarmac as opposed to the curbing. Why do you think everyon was so worried about the turn ten chicane - now known as the Singapore Sling - at the Marina Bay Circuit? It was because if they hit one of them, it could pitch them into the wall. As soon so the car was partially in the air, they were demoted from driver to passenger. I believe it's the same thing with Laguna Seca: because of the camber of the right-hander, the whole thing drops away for the car to be completely stable. There are actually regulations in place dictating that kind of thing, regulations laid down by the FIA, and the Corkscrew is outside those regulations, and therefore considered too dangerous.
 
I know this is a bit of a necrothread, but there's a great article on Autosport about what it takes to design a circuit: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-track-grades-requirements-possible-tracks/6508329/

Only tracks that gain the FIA’s top licence can host F1 races. But what’s needed for Grade 1 status?

All races sanctioned by the FIA - from F1 to Rallycross - have to take place on circuits that have been granted a licence, with different levels of licence needed to host different series. These range from Grade 1 (the highest category) to Grade 6 (the lowest category), with a handful of sub-categories in between. A Grade 1 licence is required to hold an F1 race.

There’s a long list of criteria that a circuit has to meet in order to be granted a Grade 1 licence: the track itself has to conform to various standards, and the facilities surrounding it also have to meet various minimum requirements. Mandatory inspections must take place in order to ratify a track’s licence, and the higher the grade required, the higher the fee the circuit must pay. Currently there are 37 circuits (and 45 layouts across those circuits) spanning 24 countries that are licensed to hold a grand prix.

Licence categories
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In order to host a grand prix, tracks have to conform to FIA guidelines that run into hundreds of pages, with regulations covering everything from track dimensions to the type of drugs stocked in the on-site medical centre. Broadly speaking, the top categories are split up by the weight of the cars that are set to compete on a circuit in relation to the power they produce. As F1 cars produce around 1,000hp these days and weigh at least 749kg, a Grade 1 licence is required for them to race.

In series where the cars are heavier and less powerful, a lower licence is needed. However if a track holds a Grade 1 licence, it automatically covers the grades below it too, with the exception of Grade 6, which focuses on off-road competitions. Once a licence has been granted, it’s typically valid for three years from the date of the final inspection. Oval circuits like those seen on the IndyCar calendar are banned from FIA events unless technical regulations have been submitted for approval.

Which circuits could F1 race at?
All but one of the tracks on this year’s calendar hold the necessary Grade 1 licence required to hold an F1 race (Saudi Arabia’s Jeddah circuit being the exception, as it’s not yet built), however there are many tracks which hold the licence and don’t have a race scheduled.

This is something we saw in 2020 and 2021, where F1 had to find circuits that weren’t on the original calendars to fill races that had been cancelled. The Grade 1 licence means that the track meets all the criteria to hold a race, but might not do so because of cost, scheduling difficulties, a lack of interest or any other reason.

The disruption of 2020 also saw some circuits not renew their Grade 1 licence following the cancellation of their races, with five circuits losing their licence in 2020:
  • Chang circuit, Thailand
  • Circuit Ricardo Tormo, Spain
  • Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Canada
  • Shanghai International Circuit, China
  • Sepang International Circuit, Malaysia
Losing the licence doesn’t mean the circuit can never hold another race though, as tracks can renew the licence should they want to.

The full list of tracks that are, and could, hold F1 races are:

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Track dimensions
There are no rules dictating what shape a track must be, but there are still a number of regulations that circuits must abide by. Straights can’t be longer than 2km, for example, and tracks must be at least 3.5km long in total. The only exception is the Monaco Grand Prix, which falls just short at 3.337km.

It’s recommended that new circuits don’t exceed 7km in length. Permanent tracks must be at least 12 metres wide at all points, although there are some ways around this for temporary tracks and those that host national competitions on a regular basis. Think of Baku’s temporary street circuit, which is 7.6 metres wide at its narrowest point.

Meanwhile the starting grid has to be at least 15 metres wide, with the width of the track maintained through the first corner to minimise the risk of pile-ups on the opening lap. The first corner must see a change of direction of at least 45 degrees, with a radius under 300 metres.

Grid spots must be spaced 6 metres apart, although for F1 this rises to 8 metres. The FIA says the startline should ‘preferably’ be at least 250 metres away from the first corner. The pitlane is subject to a minimum width too: it should be at least 12 metres wide and adjacent to the start-finish straight. Pit entry and exit points can’t interfere with the racing line so that cars don’t collide when rejoining the track.

If that didn’t sound exhaustive enough, the FIA’s guidelines also say that changes in width along the track should be as gradual as possible.

The FIA also goes into detail on the gradient of circuits, which must be appropriate for the performance of the cars using the track. The gradient of start-finish straight can’t exceed 2%, and ideally shouldn’t change in high speed braking zones or in corners with a high level of acceleration.

Banking shouldn’t exceed 5.7 degrees, although the FIA does allow for ‘possible exceptions in special cases’. Turns 3 and 14 of the refurbished track at Zandvoort are two such examples, with banking of 18 and 19 degrees respectively. Although no longer on the F1 calendar, the Grand Prix Circuit at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway features a nine degree corner and remains a Grade 1 listed venue.

Barriers
The FIA says the track layout, topography, racing lines, speed and structures outside of the circuit should all be considered when deciding what type of barrier to use as the first line of protection. Either a barrier is needed to absorb the energy of a car travelling at speed, or a run-off area is required to give drivers space to regain control. These can range from 30 to 100 metres deep, depending on the cornering speeds anticipated at any given section of the track.

There’s no set rule on the type of barrier that has to be used in a corner or at the end of a straight, but the FIA suggests that a combination of grass, sealed surface run-off areas, deceleration beds, stopping barriers, energy-absorbing barriers or a combination of these can be put in place where necessary. Where the risk of a crash is deemed to be low, a vertical barrier such as metal guardrail is needed. In the higher-risk zones - like at the end of a straight - more sophisticated, energy-dissipating barriers are required. One of the most common are Tecpro barriers, which are made from a combination of foam and steel and can be arranged like pieces in a jigsaw puzzle to fit any kind of track.

One of the conditions of being given an FIA licence is that all track surfaces, guardrails, tyre barriers, fencing, kerbs, drains, service roads, gravel traps and barriers all have to be checked and maintained on a regular basis. Adequate protection of spectator areas and grandstands also needs to be installed.

Drainage
Tracks are usually designed so that rainwater naturally drains away from the circuit, and on straights the FIA says these slopes should be between 0.9 and 1.7 degrees measured either from one side to the other or from the centre of the circuit to each edge. In areas of a circuit where water is known to build up during heavy rain, organisers can cut grooves into the surface of the asphalt to direct water away from the track, provided that evidence of where surface water will flow is given to the FIA.

Medical centre
Given that drivers can be at serious risk of injury in the event of a high-speed crash, a permanent medical centre is mandatory for Grades 1-4, while Grades 5 and 6 only require a temporary facility.

For F1, WEC and WRC events, the medical centre must include at least two doctors proficient in resuscitation and at least two surgeons. One must be skilled at the initial treatment of burns and another must be able to manage spinal injuries and concussion. Multiple members of the medical team must speak English well, and all must be experienced dealing with trauma patients.

There are minimum requirements for medical kit too: this includes equipment for securing a driver’s upper airway, devices to stop haemorrhaging, mechanical ventilators and heart rate monitors, among many other life-saving items. Oxygen reserves, a spinal board, x-ray and ultrasound equipment are also listed. Meanwhile, the FIA provides a list of drugs that need to be stocked in the medical centre. These are needed to treat respiratory problems, cardiovascular issues, epilepsy and much else.

Other rules
The FIA has a formula for working out the maximum number of cars (N) that are allowed to take part in a race depending on the length (L) and width (W) of the circuit, the duration of the race (T) itself and the category of cars (G) competing within it. All of these factors are given a coefficient number based on where they fall within FIA-specific tables, with the numbers then multiplied together to give a final answer.

The formula looks like this: N = 0.36 x L x W x T x G

Therefore, the 6 Hours of Silverstone would look like this: 0.36 x 17 x 10 x 1.4 x 0.7 = 59.976.

That means 60 cars could take part in a World Endurance Championship event at Silverstone. The maximum number of cars allowed in practice is capped at 20% more than would be allowed to start the race. However this formula doesn’t apply to F1, which uses its own regulations to calculate the maximum number of starters allowed.

The FIA also makes it clear that advertising boards around the outside of the track have to be stable and secure, and they shouldn’t interfere with drivers or officials’ visibility in any way. Track surfaces are not allowed to carry adverts, and any ads on run-off areas mustn’t reduce the skid resistance that slows cars down in the event of a collision. Beyond the track itself, public areas accessible to fans must cater for disabled visitors. As a minimum, the FIA suggests installing a designated viewing area for disabled spectators, specialist toilet facilities, reserved parking places and paved pathways that allow people in wheelchairs to get around.

Rallycross and Autocross are subject to different rules when it comes to track layout: circuits should fall between 800-1,400 metres in length, and be 10-25 metres wide.
 
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