The Purest Drifting Experience Part 7: Beyond Competition

  • Thread starter GhostZ
  • 57 comments
  • 4,129 views
271
United States
United States
The__Ghost__Z
Part 1 - On the nature and purposes of Drifting
Part 2: Precision - More complex factors in drift physics
Part 3: Weapons - Novice Drift Initiation Techniques
Part 4: High Caliber Weapons Advanced Drift Initiation Techniques
Part 5: Mid-Corner Drift Physics - Executing a drift at a speed and angle.
Part 6: Math and Comparative Tuning - Tuning drift cars in relation to eachother
Part 7: Beyond Competition - An Ending Note

I feel that I have, at last, exhausted the abilities of Gran Turismo 5's drifting community. This will be the last entry in this series, and the last involvement I will have. From here on, you may catch me in the occasional lobby, but there will be no more serious drifting for me. I can't get inspired by any of the new teams or drifters, and I can't find new areas to improve on that I have the time and dedication for. This is why I made this series, to express as much knowledge as I can on the basic level to the community, which I feel as a whole lacks the fundamentals and precision needed to match skill with their hype.

The best drifter is not whoever wins the most competitions, is leader of the most successful teams, or makes the craziest videos. The best drifter is the one who, at any point, can make his car do whatever he wants at will and succeed at it. The best drifter can grip race at incredible speeds. The best drifter can extract every last ounce of speed out of a slow car. The best drifter never wrecks, can approach a corner at any position too fast or too slow and drift it flawlessly. The best driver can take a poor line and drive it as fast as a good line, on demand, and adapt to any circumstance. This is not achieved through practicing the same tandem sections over and over, it is not achieved through competitions or mathematics calculation, but is achieved through a high degree of talent and skill at controlling a car. No one, even myself, has achieved this on GT5 that I have observed. But I can confidently say that the members of drift teams, in whole, are not the best drifters online, or ever will be. The best ones are the anomalies, who drive the car they love and drift it perfectly regardless of the circumstances. This is why I created this account, to try and better myself and the community as a whole. I realized this a while back when I began drifting with this new account and stopped entering competitions.

Drifting teams are created to pool knowledge and resources. The idea is that an entire team, sharing opinions and practice time, can collectively improve their abilities. This is not the case with the GT5 community. Here, drifting teams act as a buffer between skill and criticism. They are drifting gangs, there to back eachother up emotionally when a member's pride is on the line. They practice, yes, and they improve, but the goal has always been to defeat other teams in battles or success. "Tandem, Tandem, Tandem" is the goal, and any words against this is that, just words. In a long time of analyzing GT5's drifting scene since the beginning of the game (and even before in prologue) I've seen it evolve from drivers who want to push their skill to the limit, to drivers who want to wear drifting as a fashion statement.

The get back to the core, the purpose of drifting, is to reach the "purest drifting experience". I've taken you, the reader, a full circle with this now. First, I presented what the objective reasons to drift would be, and then I showed you how to optimize and utilize all of the techniques to your advantage. Now, I am showing you why I've done this.

Keiichi Tsuchiya said that he started drifting as a way to keep fans interested during his races. He said that while drifting was not the fastest way around a corner, it was the most beautiful. Drifting is not about teams, it is not about speed, and it is not about winning races or competitions. It is about pushing the very limits of what a driver and a car is capable of doing, and being so in-sync with those actions that the limits can be achieved effortlessly.

Likewise, it is not about "style" or angle either, and too much focus on specific performance causes a drifter to lose sight of the greater, more instinctual level of control of their car. Some of the best drifters, at their particular courses, fall to pieces if the car in front of them wrecks or they are on an unfamiliar course. Some drifters only win competitions by using excessively fast cars, tons of power, and letting it make up for the lack of precision they have. Some drifters really are fantastic, but never seek to improve beyond whatever niche technique they have worked into, and refuse to adapt.

Next time you are drifting on Tsukuba with someone, and you see they are swinging their body side-to-side to enter the final corner (a novice technique) out-brake them, ride on the dirt beside the track past them, and use their body to bump the rear end of your car, putting you into a drift on grass that you maintain onto the track and pull away. Next time you are on special stage route 5, swing your car out and contact drift the last chicane, rebounding the car into the SECOND corner, doing a contact drift twice in a row, for maximum speed. Next time you are on High Speed Ring, float from the inside to the outside of the track several times on each of the short corners, zig-zagging smoothly, while drifting the entire way and not losing speed either. Take an unassuming car, completely stock, and try to recreate your favorite drift car's abilities with it, and outdrift far faster vehicles. These are the things that will make you better, because they require only your skill and absolute precision to do successfully. These are just some of the techniques, ones far more difficult than it is required to win a competition, that I will do that overwhelms other drivers in terms of skill. These are not things you can do in a drift competition, they are not things that a drift team will teach you to do. You have to figure this stuff out on your own.

Go drift. Do incredible things. Practice for yourself, not for a team or for a battle. Go beyond competition. That is why you are playing a simulator, not to just make your ego big and be a part of a gang of bullies. Take pride in your driving and drift only for yourself. You, regardless of who is reading this, now has all of the tools, I've written them down for you. Do things in a car on GT5 that anyone would be scared to do in real life. Make the most of your time behind the wheel, don't spend it on petty arguments between teams or trying to make yourself appear better than you really are. Be the best damn drifter you can possibly be. Do not care what others think of you.

This has been a fun experiment this summer. I've vastly improved my own driving, by going from a competition winning, "good" drifter, to an anonymous driver in a 40-year-old car perfecting his technique beyond what any drift team can do online or off. I do not have the time or resources to continue improving anymore, and so I am going to let it rest now that I've taken what I've learned, and given it to the community. It's not about being the best, it's about constantly improving. Teams and fellow drifters go away. The only thing that stays with you afterwards is what skills you've developed.

If you do not understand the purpose of this post, at least take this away from it: in the end, the only thing that will matter in the petty fights between teams is what skill you manage to take away. Drift because it is fun and you want to do it as best as possible. Do not drift because you want to make someone else feel bad. The worst drifter is you. You are always the one who needs to improve, you are always the one who can do better. You are never good enough to disrespect others, and you are never good enough to stop needing to improve. There is simply no other thing as true.

I've already typed up exactly what anyone on GT5 needs to know to become a good drifter, this entire experiment was so that I could perfect my technique, and then enhance the community as a whole, which I hope I have done in the end. I want people in the community to stop caring about who wins competitions, which 99% have nothing to do with having the best control over a car, or who is part of which team. There is no team on GT5 worthy of being called "amazing", and everyone has a long way to improve, myself included. Who knows? Maybe someone will take my advice and continue the improvement in the real world, or even start their own project to improve the community.

Go beyond competition, and have real fun. That's why people buy this game, because it's fun. Thanks for reading.
 
Last edited:
Likewise, it is not about "style" or angle either, and too much focus on specific performance causes a drifter to lose sight of the greater, more instinctual level of control of their car.

'Drifting is not about style', let's just throw that one straight out the window shall we?

Isn't this whole series of threads about focusing on specifics?

Next time you are drifting on Tsukuba with someone, and you see they are swinging their body side-to-side to enter the final corner (a novice technique) out-brake them, ride on the dirt beside the track past them, and use their body to bump the rear end of your car, putting you into a drift on grass that you maintain onto the track and pull away.

Drifting isn't racing, get on their door and tandem that fool! And using weight transfers to initiate is not a problem, you explained that it was a good way to drift in one of your previous threads!
 
'Drifting is not about style', let's just throw that one straight out the window shall we?

Drifting isn't racing, get on their door and tandem that fool!

Yes and no to both of these. There are places in the world that do not drift for style and racing purposes.
 
This maybe the best one, very true alot of hype. When you start drifting to prove a point you wont be learning as much as when you are drifting to just drift 👍
 
I've been thinking about who this GhostZ is and I probably just figured it out. I've had my suspicions..but there is only one other person I know, besides me, that would go to this much in detail about physics and drifting and explain with such eloquence :lol:

Nevertheless.. Like I said before, I appreciate all that you have written in these series of analyses. They have definitely been a good read and I do enjoy going over them. But I do not completely agree with your generalization of the drift community. Although I do believe that most drift teams do act as "gangs" and are just "there to back eachother up emotionally when a member's pride is on the line", there ARE teams that do provide with what you say is the "purest drifting experience". What may be shown in the threads, in terms of communication and how teams work, may not be the actual "plan" of the team. Since GTP is an easy way for teammates to communicate, the whole picture of improvement may be completely diluted with all this stupid nonsense drama that still continues to fill the drifting community everyday.

My team, for example, have always made driver development its main goal. We have taken many novice drifters and have developed them into very skilled drivers. Whether it be on DS3 or any wheel, to have a greater knowledge and understanding of drifting is what was important to us in order for our members to develop as a whole. Although many of us do compete in many competitions, me especially, we don't use it as a way of determining WHO IS BEST. That kind of mentality will always lead to drama. But rather, as you have said, it is to push us to our limits and see what we can improve on. I've told this to my teammates over and over again.

I've actually had this conversation with Monstergauz a couple times: that the reason why he and I do competitions is so that we COULD be pushed to that limit, so we can have our "purest drifting experience", to display our talent and skill that we have continuously worked on and see if it is the best we can do. When run after run the drifting gets more exciting and exact, it is just a beautiful and an adrenaline-pumping experience that really can't happen any other way. That to us is fun, and we continue to strive for that. Winning was just an extra part of it.

Again, thanks for the reads. I really appreciate the insight. I hope to drift with you soon. :sly:
 
I've already typed up exactly what anyone on GT5 needs to know to become a good drifter, this entire experiment was so that I could perfect my technique, and then enhance the community as a whole, which I hope I have done in the end. I want people in the community to stop caring about who wins competitions, which 99% have nothing to do with having the best control over a car, or who is part of which team. There is no team on GT5 worthy of being called "amazing", and everyone has a long way to improve, myself included. Who knows? Maybe someone will take my advice and continue the improvement in the real world, or even start their own project to improve the community.

...My team, for example, have always made driver development its main goal. We have taken many novice drifters and have developed them into very skilled drivers. Whether it be on DS3 or any wheel, to have a greater knowledge and understanding of drifting is what was important to us in order for our members to develop as a whole. Although many of us do compete in many competitions, me especially, we don't use it as a way of determining WHO IS BEST. That kind of mentality will always lead to drama. But rather, as you have said, it is to push us to our limits and see what we can improve on. I've told this to my teammates over and over again.

Marc is 100% right about NEMESIS. We RARELY look at established players to join our team when recruiting. We like to recruit the unknown players that have low to moderate skill. We look for players that fit our team chemistry more than everything else because we KNOW we will develop them into top tier players.

It is so much more than just playing a game for us. This is why I think my team is "amazing" (yes, I'm biased). I do feel that there are other teams that are amazing as well.

GhostZ, it appears you have no concept of what being part of a "team" is about. Or maybe you have had bad experiences with the teams you have been part of (or maybe even created)? Here's a free tip from me to you: it's not about winning competitions (shh.. don't tell anyone! its a secret!).

Then again, perhaps MY concept of "team" is completely different than your concept of "team."

Good luck "Ghostz".
 
The only reason D-Max started and is still here today is to have a laugh and have fun...

+1

It's why people drift IRL, both on the street and track.

It's why the Ebisu Matsuri is the PERFECT drift event.

It's why we drift. The guys you see in the comps are there for the money and the fame, it's the guys scraping walls and making epic cars that are there for the right reasons.
 
Drifting teams are created to pool knowledge and resources. The idea is that an entire team, sharing opinions and practice time, can collectively improve their abilities. This is not the case with the GT5 community. Here, drifting teams act as a buffer between skill and criticism. They are drifting gangs, there to back eachother up emotionally when a member's pride is on the line. They practice, yes, and they improve, but the goal has always been to defeat other teams in battles or success. "Tandem, Tandem, Tandem" is the goal, and any words against this is that, just words. In a long time of analyzing GT5's drifting scene since the beginning of the game (and even before in prologue) I've seen it evolve from drivers who want to push their skill to the limit, to drivers who want to wear drifting as a fashion statement.
I have to agree, but I must say, you will never find the best drifters simply because they dont normally go in public lobbies. I have been drifting since GT3, so I do know some very good drivers/drifters. Some of those sadly dont get on much anymore. Some have moved on to real drifting. Hell I remember Bryan Heitkotter back in the GT3 days when he was drifting. Now he got through GT Academy and is driving real race cars. But I dont venture into public lobbies simply because no one has any track manners these days. Everyone is disrespectful and they think they are the best or know the most or what have you.
While I dont agree with you on everything, you do have some valid points.
 
I don´t do competitions because i dont like to wait tons of times to get into the track. Also because sections are not my favorite kind of explore a whole map. And for last, because i never agreed about the basic concepts of the drift competitions in real life. By the way, i don´t like to compete nor see drifting as a competitive sport (and no, not all sports are competitive).

Otherwise, my big apreciation for custom tracks is the way how i am challenged to discover new grounds with epic sequences of corners. Also because is what splits the guys who is able to drift anywhere from those who are able to do it properly only in the official tracks from GT5 (specialy Suzuka E. and Tsukuba). And for last, because it gives a bigger personal aproach to the map by it´s owner (Like my TG 5 25, or K1ngKlick´s Toscana epic touge).

Finaly, i don´t make part of any team... at least i never did in GT5. I had this experience in another game, and there are some things that don´t let me enjoy this. I don´t want to make part of a certain paranoic level of competition against many other teams and drifters that i also like to drift with, but i wouldn´t do it freely if i was defending any kind of tag. Also, from all the teams from GT5... better or worse, with all my respect, there is always something that doesn´t amuses me (sometimes the philosophy, sometimes the people into, sometimes the collor choices, or even the team´s name). I still respecting who decided to make part of any crew and i believe that it brings a lot of responsability, because you´re not responding by only yourself anymore. Anything you do, good or bad, will reflect to your team also. Unfortunaly not everyone thinks about this all before ask for an oportunity to get into a team.
 
Lazy, if you join the right team, it's all about drifting with people that become mates. That's all D-Max is, competitions are a long long way behind us.
 
Lazy, if you join the right team, it's all about drifting with people that become mates. That's all D-Max is, competitions are a long long way behind us.

Im sure that this makes worth it. In my case, i have great drifting mates from Driftninja, D-Max, Redsuns, Nemesis, OsakaHQ, MLD, Liquid, Alpine, Blackout, WSG, Prodigy, Burst... and many other teams with lower importance. I just prefer to be for everybody and nobody at the same time, and besides i couldn´t pick only one.

Some people desire to make part of something and build his network around a team, and some people prefer to stay "Ronin" and enjoy the free will of drift with anyone instead defend any tag.

Im not saying that teams are not necessary, also im not suggesting that anybody should go solo. But for the reasons related here and there, i just don´t fit for myself. Maybe someday i can change my mind, maybe not. Maybe i would start a Brazilian team (dang, most these BR needs some serious guidance), who knows?
 
Drifting teams are created to pool knowledge and resources. The idea is that an entire team, sharing opinions and practice time, can collectively improve their abilities. This is not the case with the GT5 community. Here, drifting teams act as a buffer between skill and criticism. They are drifting gangs, there to back eachother up emotionally when a member's pride is on the line. They practice, yes, and they improve, but the goal has always been to defeat other teams in battles or success. "Tandem, Tandem, Tandem" is the goal, and any words against this is that, just words. In a long time of analyzing GT5's drifting scene since the beginning of the game (and even before in prologue) I've seen it evolve from drivers who want to push their skill to the limit, to drivers who want to wear drifting as a fashion statement.

I recall multiple arguments between teams. Hell, I was part of it once upon a time but I got fed up and just started drifting with everyone. If ANYONE on the drifting forum asked me for some pointers whether it be who we declare as the best or worst, I wouldn't mind helping. I send tuned cars out regularly when I'm online to people I don't really talk to much. The Nemesis guys help everyone out as far as I see. I can swing by with the burst guys any time and chill with blackout each night. I wouldn't say there is 'gangs', at least not any more!.

I get on GT5 2/3 times a week and drift, get bored and race. Does this make me one of those fashion followers?

It is so much more than just playing a game for us. This is why I think my team is "amazing" (yes, I'm biased). I do feel that there are other teams that are amazing as well.

You guys are amazing. You are a "Family" as far as I believe you call each other which is pretty awesome! Very close people.
 
Such an extensive, compelling write-up, tainted with a bad attitude, the majority structure has convinced me that you are an amazing driver, yet there are numerous indicators that you are an amateur with no idea what drifting is about.
 
As a noob floating around the drift lobbies I couldn't agree more with the thought that some of the guys operate like complete idiots about stuff in these drift lobbies. OsakaHQ especially is filled with douchebags from what I've seen. Any lobby I've been in with any of their members I get kiked because they complain about me using auto to drift. I drift decent enough in auto or manual. But these idiots always kick me for usin auto without askin me to change smh. I've been in nemesis lobbies usin auto without issue and still make it into some of their vids.lol Another team I actually started drifting with unknowingly is A*D. Bunch of cool guys there too.
 
As a noob floating around the drift lobbies I couldn't agree more with the thought that some of the guys operate like complete idiots about stuff in these drift lobbies. OsakaHQ especially is filled with douchebags from what I've seen. Any lobby I've been in with any of their members I get kiked because they complain about me using auto to drift. I drift decent enough in auto or manual. But these idiots always kick me for usin auto without askin me to change smh. I've been in nemesis lobbies usin auto without issue and still make it into some of their vids.lol Another team I actually started drifting with unknowingly is A*D. Bunch of cool guys there too.

Most of those around the drift forum use the Lounge option over Lobby's purely for the fact that people demand track changes and just do stupid stuff in general, so yeah, I don't expect you to come across anything else other than the stuff that has been set up and holds various members that will just put up with no nonsense.
 
I hope u don't think that drifting auto is nonsense....it does happen irl, it can be done well enough in the game, by me anyway to tandem right next to a manual drifter without issue. I think it's just kids trying to make pointless rules and finding a bs reason to nitpick so they can feel knowledgable about something. Once I started realizing that overr half these drift teams probably have never driven irl, I stopped caring and just go to a lobby to learn the common tracks. A*D puts up their custom ones in their rooms and that couldn't be anymore fun. I love takin the GS300 on their versions of toscana on corners that I don't have a clue about, whether they are tight or loose and pullin off some decent drifts. Usually after 5 laps on an unfamiliar track I feel confident enough to try tandem with some other person near by.
 
Camry3sgte
I hope u don't think that drifting auto is nonsense....it does happen irl, it can be done well enough in the game, by me anyway to tandem right next to a manual drifter without issue. I think it's just kids trying to make pointless rules and finding a bs reason to nitpick so they can feel knowledgable about something. Once I started realizing that overr half these drift teams probably have never driven irl, I stopped caring and just go to a lobby to learn the common tracks. A*D puts up their custom ones in their rooms and that couldn't be anymore fun. I love takin the GS300 on their versions of toscana on corners that I don't have a clue about, whether they are tight or loose and pullin off some decent drifts. Usually after 5 laps on an unfamiliar track I feel confident enough to try tandem with some other person near by.

A*D= Asphalt Dreamers

Yea I started drifting with them from the beginning when it was just crosshairs
 
Jimmy is saying that most and all of the high demand teams never go into or create an open lobby because of the reasons stated before. All of us are in private lounges with our teams and other teams, It has nothing to do with drifting AT, we all start somewhere right? That's why it seems as if this Ghost guy has absolute no clue what he's talking about because if you are in "the game" you know how these teams are really close friends, definitely not the way Ghost has put it.
 
...Once I started realizing that overr half these drift teams probably have never driven irl, I stopped caring and just go to a lobby to learn the common tracks...

I can't stand playing GT5 with people who don't race cars IRL. I mean, what's the point in playing a video game online if the people you're playing with aren't real life pros at the aspect the game mimics. I only add professional racecar drivers to my friend list.

I take my video games very seriously...but I'm not a violent person. When I play BF3, I kill a puppy and/or bunny from the cages I keep near my TV every time I die or kill an enemy. I would kill a real person, but that's going a little far IMO. But the little critters provide enough blood that after a long session, my living room looks like a bloody murder scene. You should try it sometime...makes te gaming experience way better.....


In all seriousness though, I think you need to check your attitude at the door, an stop openly bashing people and teams. That's a great way to lose respect mighty quick around here, both from the teams you mentioned, as well as those you didn't. If you have a personal problem with someone, send them a PM...shows a lot more maturity than openly calling an entire group of people d-bags

The whole "negative generalization" of both the GT5 drift scene and the GTP community is getting kind of old (done by both Ghostz and Camry). I'm not saying its entirely true in this case, but in my experience, I find that the people who cry about an entire video game community being negative in some form or another, are the true "negative nancys," who just can't get over the fact that other people don't want to play the game exactly the way they do.
 
I hope u don't think that drifting auto is nonsense....it does happen irl, it can be done well enough in the game, by me anyway to tandem right next to a manual drifter without issue.

Through my Paragraph I wrote, all you took from it was that I may or may not accept Auto drifting? There is a bit of a point I made in my post. Go read it then reply to it.

Yours sincerely,
Someone who looks into comments rather than making there own opinion​
 
I'm really worried about my reputation in the gt5 drift community let me tell u. If the community was so open why would I have a gripe. I've been in a few different drift teams rooms over these past few months. And I do have track manners to the point where if I screw up I get out the way of passing cars unlike people who don't drive irl, or just a-holes who reverse into a perfect 6 car tandem just because they want to stay out front and lack the patience to follow the pack untill the person infront them messes up or they can get to a part of the track where passing is "safer". I've been pushed off the track before by people claiming they are trying to pass clean. And yes, if I feel that I was pushed off track I will park my GS300 in ur rear quarter on the next turn. Childish, but fun.lol Anyway, I try to pass without hitting but let's be real. Mistakes happen and yes you can accidentally tap someone. When it happens to me and I get tapped I do what I can to try to hold my line. If I do it to someone from the team that I've mentioned previously in their lobby I'm kicked within minutes. So clearly I have no issues with the way others play the game, I just enjoy trying to drift the crap out of anything I drive when I'm in a drift lobby. I normally host highway racing lobbies where I vary the PP and my rooms get packed constantly with regulars and noobs. It's not like I don't know how to be corteous to other users/players/drivers. I've never said anything negative about nemesis. Just ohq and people who don't drive irl. Based on your lil tirade u went on at the begining of ur post I guess u don't drive irl or if you do, you didn't have the sense to realize I wasn't bashing all teams. But hey you generalized my statements and put me in with ghostz. Reading is fundamental. He has his views. I agree with some. Idk if ur in college yet but please retake english 101 or 1101 as its now called in most places. My sarcasm will stay. Haters will hate, likers will like. Life goes on. See u at night slide if u wanna see how I operate in a drift environment.

Through my Paragraph I wrote, all you took from it was that I may or may not accept Auto drifting? There is a bit of a point I made in my post. Go read it then reply to it.

Yours sincerely,
Someone who looks into comments rather than making there own opinion​

I agreed with the majority of ur post, hence why I didn't have to repeat it. But they way it was worded kind of carried an undertone eluding to the fact that u may not accept auto drifting. Oooo big words. So anyway. By me only responding about auto drifting don't think I didn't understand the rest of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Idk if ur in college yet but please retake english 101 or 1101 as its now called in most places. .

I won't even dive into that paragraph of what, but I think this tidbit sums up what I just read. Practice what you preach before preaching unto others, I believe is the right term.

Also, you using people who don't drive in real life as a term for people who aren't "as good as you" is stupid and childish, in my opinon.
Maybe I misread it. That'll just loop me back to the reply regarding the quote above. :lol:

This is being said without trying to be disrespectful.
 
tl;dr version:

If you cant drift as good as me in real life, i am automatically better than you in GT5... also speak English.
 
I agreed with the majority of ur post, hence why I didn't have to repeat it. But they way it was worded kind of carried an undertone eluding to the fact that u may not accept auto drifting. Oooo big words. So anyway. By me only responding about auto drifting don't think I didn't understand the rest of it.

I will have something to say about auto drifting in GT5 yes, but I care not if you can keep with me or if you don't slow me down. When it starts effecting me, I will voice my concern.

Idk if ur in college yet but please retake english 101 or 1101 as its now called in most places.

I can point out 4 grammatical errors in this sentence alone.
 
I can't stand playing GT5 with people who don't race cars IRL.

....

I only add professional racecar drivers to my friend list.

Well you better remove me, Sean and Cerebus fast! XD

I drive IRL, but being 18 and unpaid I am limited to such an extent that GT5 and attending motorsport events are the closest I can get to what I aspire to and dream of doing in real life.

I'm not sure how serious you were trying to be with this comment.
 
Back