The UK Police, what's your opinion?

[Pagey279]

My Dad was a serving member of the UK police force for 26 years, and many of our family friends are police officers as well.

I treat them with utmost respect, as the job they are doing for us is priceless in my opinion. However most police officers get no recognition what so ever, and are verbally abused and in some cases attacked for putting their lives on the line to keep us safe. As we have seen with PC David Rathband, in this extreme case shot with a shotgun, he was targeted for no apparent reason other than his profession.

Is this persecution of the police by a fairly large portion of people justified?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Any dealings I've had with the police have always left me with a positive feeling towards them, once as a victim, once as a drunkard (not arrested!), twice being stopped whilst driving (no offences committed), and twice when I've been involved in a domestic (my house mates - not me).

However, as with any profession, you get people who are good at it, and those that are bad at it, and I can imagine there are plenty that are responsible for giving the force a bad image.

I'd support giving them more powers, deadlier weaponary and less paperwork.

 

[homeforsummer]

Likewise, I've only had to deal with the police on a few occasions. When I was pulled over one time and breathalyzed they weren't arsey about it, fairly good-humoured even (and you'll be pleased to know I hadn't been drinking!). When my old car got nicked they arrived quickly and did their best to find the car.

While I'm a little dubious about some of their stop and search rights, I'm also of the opinion that if you don't do dodgy stuff in the first place you have little to worry about, so I'm happy with my experiences so far.

 

[Liquid]

They do a tough job and get a lot of stick for it.

I live/am from in North East Wales, which if you are unfamiliar with it, is a very poor area of the country. I rarely see bobbies on the beat, but the paperwork they have to do is not up to them I suppose.

I'm dubious about some police officers. Some of them are quite zealous, but that's the same in any walk of life; ou'll meet nice people who work in a bank, you'll meet nasty people who work in a bank and you'll meet nice people who work for the police force, you'll meet nasty people who work for the police force.

I've not had any personal run ins with the police, but any time I've spoken to them, they've been alright. Just doing their job.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

I got stopped by "Community Support Officers" recently as I was walking to school, in my school uniform. They took my name in the book and told me to get to school. School starts at 8:20 and this was at 8:10 about 5 minutes away from school. It's things like this that means it's hard to take the police seriously. They fail to do anything about arson, robbery and assault but anything petty they're all over for it.

The amount of abuse they get is pretty appalling at times but the police are hardly angels. Very sad news about Rathband though, R.I.P.

I'd support giving them more powers, deadlier weaponary and less paperwork.

👍 Nobody fears the police because they won't/can't do anything and instead harass the public. Don't really blame the police for this, but rather the powers that decide this is a good way to run the force, lots of paperwork, huge respect for criminals and their rights, tiny "crimes" targeted. Look at the riots, could've been much less severe I think with harsher policing.

Slightly off topic but did anyone see this 👎

 

[Biffy]

I got stopped by "Community Support Officers" recently as I was walking to school, in my school uniform. They took my name in the book and told me to get to school. School starts at 8:20 and this was at 8:10 about 5 minutes away from school. It's things like this that means it's hard to take the police seriously. They fail to do anything about arson, robbery and assault but anything petty they're all over for it.

The amount of abuse they get is pretty appalling at times but the police are hardly angels. Very sad news about Rathband though, R.I.P.



👍 Nobody fears the police because they won't/can't do anything and instead harass the public. Don't really blame the police for this, but rather the powers that decide this is a good way to run the force, lots of paperwork, huge respect for criminals and their rights, tiny "crimes" targeted. Look at the riots, could've been much less severe I think with harsher policing.

Slightly off topic but did anyone see this 👎

Saw that today, but it was no surprise, which is the problem. The media does highlight the bad side of the Police Force more than the good side, which does increase the amount of criticism they get, but it's actions like these which show a big confusion of priorities. I respect the police and appreciate that they do a lot more than what they get credit for, but I just wish they would grow some balls, throw out the rulebook, and tackle the major sources of crime in this country head-on. We have criminals who just laugh at their victims and the justice system, because they can get off scot free.. they shouldn't even have the chance to smile. I could go on and on about prison luxuries and the pointless justice system, but I only need to sum up that there is a big problem, when an OAP gets charged for defending his home from a gang of hoodlums. Something needs to change.

 

[Pagey279]

but I just wish they would grow some balls, throw out the rulebook, and tackle the major sources of crime in this country head-on. We have criminals who just laugh at their victims and the justice system, because they can get off scot free.. they shouldn't even have the chance to smile. I could go on and on about prison luxuries and the pointless justice system, but I only need to sum up that there is a big problem, when an OAP gets charged for defending his home from a gang of hoodlums. Something needs to change.

Don't forget that PCs at the bottom rung of the ladder have no say in the way the constabulary should be policed, and they cannot throw out the rule book as the rule book was written by the guys that sit behind a desk with 6 figure salaries. Who have no idea what goes on in the front line of policing.
They push a pen around on a bit of paper, or tap a couple of keys and regulations and rules that govern the Officers conduct are passed without consideration.
Often meaning that they don't have the time to actively police the streets, and are tied up at the station.

Or that they are told to pursue petty crime such as the above example

 

[Zenith]

To the above couple of posts.

As an American I'd like to say that I'd rather have a police body that is restrained from doing their job as effectively as possible than a police body that regularly oversteps their bounds and take advantage of the those whom they are sworn to protect.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I've had no direct interactions with the police. Never been stopped in my car, never been trouble and never had trouble against me.

However, I've had a few indirect experiences. Usually in relatively small stuff where they quickly become part of a game of tit-for-tat but they take too long to catch up.

Otherwise I have no problem with them, but there are more than a few bad eggs amongst their numbers but that doesn't mean I make assumptions before they've had the chance.

 

[Biffy]

Don't forget that PCs at the bottom rung of the ladder have no say in the way the constabulary should be policed, and they cannot throw out the rule book as the rule book was written by the guys that sit behind a desk with 6 figure salaries. Who have no idea what goes on in the front line of policing.
They push a pen around on a bit of paper, or tap a couple of keys and regulations and rules that govern the Officers conduct are passed without consideration.
Often meaning that they don't have the time to actively police the streets, and are tied up at the station.

Or that they are told to pursue petty crime such as the above example

Yeah I know, I should have stated I meant the police in general, not individually. But yeah, the fact that crimefighting takes second place to paperwork bewilders me. In the current state of affairs, I'm all for going right back to basics, because there are big problems and they are just not being addressed.

 

[1241Penguin]

I think most of the hate toward police (in general) comes from the fact that most encounters with police aren't always friendly. Like, you will never just walk up to a policeman / woman and tell them how nice a day it was.

 

[Slash]

At least it's not like here in NY were the NYPD is bigger than Canadas army.

 

[Ardius]

I'd support giving them more powers, deadlier weaponary

I kind of like that our police force doesn't require lethal weaponry to carry out its job and I kind of agree with the idea that simply giving the police more powerful weaponry simply means the criminals get their hands on more powerful weaponry to "defend" themselves - it escalates.

Besides, we do have armed police when the situation requires it, but otherwise non-lethal force is excercised.

Our country seems to have got on fine with this attitude on weapons so far anyway, in fact I'd be tempted to do the opposite and try to outright ban all guns including for use in hunting or sports-shooting.

 

[Azuremen]

I think most of the hate toward police (in general) comes from the fact that most encounters with police aren't always friendly. Like, you will never just walk up to a policeman / woman and tell them how nice a day it was.

Well, I use to do just that when I worked near a bar in a college town. A lot of small talk with cops that were keeping an eye out for trouble, most were pretty chill guys.

However, some do go on power trips, and some love display that they have authority. Honestly, while these guys are fewer in number, they really screw it up for the rest by trying to be intimidating and always correct, even with no real reason.

Over in the UK though, I kind of feel you guys have little privacy or personal rights, and so the cops have much more power than they should.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Over in the UK though, I kind of feel you guys have little privacy or personal rights, and so the cops have much more power than they should.

Where did you read/hear this? What a strange thing for someone to suggest to you. If anything i'd say the complete opposite, police here need more power. I'd certainly not mind beat officers carrying tasers and having reduced paper work per arrest so that they can use that time and the power that they do have to fight crime.

I have/have had absolutely no problem with the U.K police forces, and i've been on both sides of them a few times. Each time I feel that I have been dealt with fairly and with respect.

I've always had what was going on clearly explained to me, my rights read to me, search records given to me and police code quoted to me where i've been uncertain about the situation. Only once or twice have I felt that too much force was used, but I do understand that it was likely for the safety of others and not just because they had an excuse to flatten me.

In my experience, most complaints come from people who see the police as 'pigs' or the 'enemy' - people who talk back, act smart, waste police time and sometimes even resist arrest. If I had a pound for every drunken, mouthy, punchy yob that i've seen put into the back of a police van, i'd be able to afford something that costs as much as however many times i've seen someone put into the back of a police van.

I've been let off more than a few times, once when I was very drunk, was still pumped up from a scuffle and was almost looking for an excuse to get nicked (I was younger and stupider, judge away).
I've seen police showing amazing restrait when dealing with lairy, abusive twits, in situations where I would have flipped or said something that I probably shouldn't have, and amazing courage from female officers putting themselves in harms way and breaking up serious fights, etc.

Yes, there are bad apples, know-it-alls and power abusers on the beat, but that's the case with anything in life. I'm extremely greatful for their work, and wish that everybody would show them the respect that they're due.

 

[Danisfast]

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the police as a whole (as do the majority of Brits, according to the ONS). It is a bit disconcerting that, at the top, there appears to be a bit of an issue with honesty (I'm referring to the News Corp. fiasco here). But as a whole, my contact with the police has been positive. There will always be a bent or bad minority over here though, unfortunately. But, as long as you pay them properly and try not to interfere with their work (I would allege) by using targets or by heaping bureaucracy on them, for example, they tend to be a positive force in society. This is despite what I would perceive to be imbalances between what is expected of a police officer, and what they receive in return.

Although, you will likely know more than I'm likely to on this particular aspect.

 

[Azuremen]

Where did you read/hear this? What a strange thing for someone to suggest to you. If anything i'd say the complete opposite, police here need more power. I'd certainly not mind beat officers carrying tasers and having reduced paper work per arrest so that they can use that time and the power that they do have to fight crime.

I find it comical your beat officers don't have guns, honestly. Because I guy with a tazer really isn't that scary.

Now, from what I've read, police have substantially more rights to stop you and question you without reason. And more so with how they handle photographers especially.

 

[Danisfast]

I find it comical your beat officers don't have guns, honestly. Because I guy with a tazer really isn't that scary.

Now, from what I've read, police have substantially more rights to stop you and question you without reason. And more so with how they handle photographers especially.

That's not an issue to take up with the police, though; it's one for the lawmakers. I think people know that, generally... As for the taser thing, it's probably also worth noting that we don't have gun ownership over here, either (at least it is very uncommon to what I expect it is like in the US, and you certainly can't take a gun out in public). So, it's not like the police are using tasers to fend-off an armed populace. But, when the going gets tough, the police do have armed units (such as SO19, our "SWAT", if you will) to step-up when required.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I find it comical your beat officers don't have guns, honestly. Because I guy with a tazer really isn't that scary.

Now, from what I've read, police have substantially more rights to stop you and question you without reason. And more so with how they handle photographers especially.

Our beat officers don't need guns, that's why they don't carry guns. Tasers would be a great deterrent, they're not vital, but I imagine would be helpful especially when dealing with someone armed with a knife or other melee weapon. We have little gun crime here, so what gun crime there is can be responded to by specially trained armed units.

Stops on foot for no reason are rare, only happening if the person being stopped is acting suspicious, or is in the right area and fits the description of someone suspected of being involved with a crime. If you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't have a problem.

I've only ever been stopped and searched on foot when i've drawn attention to myself for other reasons, and i've never seen or heard of anyone acting normally being stopped randomly in the street.

I've had a few routine stops while driving, but only when there was a reason to pull me over anyway (brake light out, ratchet straps loose, etc). If everything is in order you're on your way again in a few minutes, so no great hardship.

As you probably know, U.K media has a bit too much freedom and likes to think it can do what it likes *cough* phonehacking *cough*.
I don't blame the police for being tough with 'big' media photographers who try to push through barricades and ignore what officers have told them just to get a good shot.

It's the same with amateur photographers at demonstrations and riots, if you go where you're not supposed to go, you'll likely get nicked. On the flip side, there are probably cases where cameras and phones are confiscated without clear reason and 'censored', or broken intentionally or unintentionally in the case of demonstrations and riots. Thankfully this behaviour is the exception, not the norm.

There have been more than enough photos and videos of police brutality against photographers and others to know that it certainly happens, but again, thankfully these cases are the exception, not the norm.

So the general idea is that if you don't act like a muppet or break the law, you won't get stopped or arrested. 💡

 

[Encyclopedia]

A good policeman deserves heaps of respect. My experience with UK policemen is limited to the show Road Wars though.

It surprized me that most policemen in the UK do not have a firearm. Even the Swedish police do and here guns are seen as something very, very bad.

 

[Famine]

It surprized me that most policemen in the UK do not have a firearm.

It's far, far worse than that.

If an armed officer discharges his weapon, it will usually be the last act he performs as an armed officer. It will, in all likelihood, be the last act he performs as a member of the police force too.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Now, from what I've read, police have substantially more rights to stop you and question you without reason. And more so with how they handle photographers especially.

In theory maybe, but in practice there are numerous examples of Americans having it far worse than us in the UK.

 

[TheCracker]

I find it comical your beat officers don't have guns, honestly. Because I guy with a tazer really isn't that scary.

Depends on which way you perceive a beat officer. Do you want them to appear threatening to the bad guys? Or do you want their presence to make the rest of the population feel safer?

I'm sure most of us would prefer not to have to see weapons on a day to day basis, i'd imagine it would make an officer appear less approachable. No matter what the tabloid press here would lead you to believe, criminals with guns are rare. Guns that do get used are likely to be a gang weapon that just gets handed around when needed. A beat officer in the UK is highly unlikely to ever come across a criminal with a gun.

Arming and training every police officer is just a waste of tax payers money - and would likely only lead to an escalation in criminals tooling up too.

 

[Pagey279]

The role 'beat officer' only applies by name. We no longer have an officer who's job it is to walk the streets and patrol his beat, they don't exist anymore. Certainly not in the constabulary I live in.
There are beat officers but their primary role is to manage the PCSOs (police community support officers) its their job to walk the streets.

I think this is mainly due to the cuts, with fewer and fewer PCs available they have had to utilise them and get the most out of their shift. They don't have time to wander the streets.

 

[Lizard]

It's far, far worse than that.

If an armed officer discharges his weapon, it will usually be the last act he performs as an armed officer. It will, in all likelihood, be the last act he performs as a member of the police force too.

Seriously? Thats stupid IMO. The police force in england I think is under-equiped and needs to carry guns with specialised squads carying army spec equipment.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Seriously? Thats stupid IMO. The police force in england I think is under-equiped and needs to carry guns with specialised squads carying army spec equipment.

Why!? They certainly don't need to carry guns and why on earth would they need army spec-equipment (and what is army spec, GPMG and Mortars!?)?

 

[Lizard]

Why!? They certainly don't need to carry guns and why on earth would they need army spec-equipment (and what is army spec, GPMG and Mortars!?)?

As in SA80's etc.

Why not is the question if they have guns it deters criminals. And to top that the Roul Moat incedent would most likely have come out better.

 

[mattythedog]

As in SA80's etc.

You want the police to walk around with SA80s? They're meant to be approachable people who make us feel safe, not unapproachable soldiers.

Why not is the question if they have guns it deters criminals. And to top that the Roul Moat incedent would most likely have come out better.

See my above point. Also, even if they had guns, they would always be the last resort, so even in a Roul Moat situation they would've tried everything before pulling the trigger.

 

[Liquid]

We just don't have a large, maintstream weapon culture in the UK. That's just how it is.

Therefore, we're less likely to need armed officers. I'm in favour of the taser though. It is less likely to lead to any accidental fatalities in comparison to live ammunition.

Trouble with our police is that many of the hard working coppers are either embarrassed by the pencil pushers who take their authority too seriously, or they're stifled by the rules, regulations and paperwork. This creates both a lack of fear and respect. And less time on the streets; while I generally don't have problems with the officers themselves, the culture and management above them seems to be more about waiting for a crime to happen then reacting to it, rather than being on the street and preventing it happening in the first place.

But because we all live under different constabularies in different parts of the country, we're going to have different experiences. My police fall under the jurisdiction of the infamous North Wales Constabulary, now formerly run by Chief Inspector Brunstrom. 13 Gatsos in North Wales, 7 of them in Flintshire, which is the smallest county in the North. Some justified, some not. But just 6 more cameras to cover 5 more counties. Including Gwynedd, which is quite spacious.

 

[Lizard]

You want the police to walk around with SA80s? They're meant to be approachable people who make us feel safe, not unapproachable soldiers.
See my above point. Also, even if they had guns, they would always be the last resort, so even in a Roul Moat situation they would've tried everything before pulling the trigger.

Read again I said special ops.

And anyway just because they "don't need them" does not mean they should not have them just in case.

US police I think do it quite well but then guns are too easy to get for the general public in america.