The US War in Afghanistan
- Thread starter Dotini
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It's very hard to fight someone who can mingle in to the civilian population. They do not wear uniforms and can easily pass for regular Pashtuns. The Northern Alliance very prematurely disbanded after about 2 months after US military support put the Taliban in hiding in safe havens in Pakistan. We did not seal off the exits of Afghanistan and essentially was declared that the Taliban are gone, dead etc. But the rural nature of the country allowed them to regroup and come back and mingle with the locals and bring forth their political ideas in areas that the Afghan government had little to no control over. This would be a phase 1 of an insurgency, all while the US was pretty hyper focused on Iraq. Eventually they got strong enough for phase 2 and we have now seen phase 3. Not to mention politicians giving the Taliban actual timelines for withdrawal. Which you should never do and we are seeing why. It was just a matter of time.
The US isn't very good at selecting the "right man" or group for the job for our proxy forces we train. On top of that some huge obstacles that stand in the way of trying to train non westernized cultures in the art of westernized military TTPs. Cultural differences from minor to profound. High context society learning low context society training makes it damn near impossible and requires more time and money than the US government is willing to dedicate to the cause. Not to mention the general unpopularity of the war to the American citizen who understandably get tired of it.
The heart of counterinsurgency is to have locals fight their own battles. For something like the Taliban, you'd probably need to dedicate 50-60 years to it, building schools, roads and infrastructure over several generations and offering military and financial support until all you have left is a few revolutionaries who are easy to spot and could probably either be taken out militarily (be it an Afghan operation with US support or vice versa) or thrown out of town by locals. Once you have several generations of educated people who enjoy certain freedoms, it's a hard door to close. Theoretically, anyway. We weren't committed to it in the long run.
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UKMikey
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Al-Qaeda 'shadow of former self' decade after Bin Laden death - France 24
Al-Qaeda 'shadow of former self' decade after Bin Laden death
www.france24.com
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- ryzno
And read what @Blood Eagle just said...Al-Qaeda 'shadow of former self' decade after Bin Laden death - France 24
Al-Qaeda 'shadow of former self' decade after Bin Laden death
- 2,359
- Ventura, California
I served under Jim Mattis with the 1st Marine Division in the early part of the millennium. He always instilled in us to be sympathetic to their plight and understand their factions and get to understand the people so you could be a more effective warrior against an enemy. Without understanding, you will not succeed in fighting against them. I've seen politicians act as generals in battle even if it means ignoring military recommendations against a full blown assault, just to send messages to enemies. It's disgusting and people a lot of the time don't even understand the capabilities of the military and their role in intervention. It isn't to just destroy and kill. It's more about buying time to come up with a diplomatic solution. But if intervention is kicked off with poor planning and non clear objectives, it's easy to see where it went wrong early on.
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- 6,060
- Simcoeace
All true. It's hard to fight someone who can mingle in to the civilian population when they're in their own country & you're not ... & they actually have a good deal of support from the civilian population. That's similar to the scenario in Vietnam.
I can't help believing that if the Taliban were actually that unpopular with the civilian population they wouldn't have been able to take over so easily. As I understand it, the US & their western allies did their best to bring positive benefits to the Afghan people, but in spite of spending hundreds of billions of dollars they didn't have that much impact on the average Afghans' lives, except perhaps in the big cities. Watching documentaries - like Restrepo - it appears as if US serviceman were stuck in the middle of nowhere among a civilian population that was, at best, indifferent to their presence & at worst hostile. These are people who live in an agrarian, almost medieval society, where things like "women's rights" have no resonance whatsoever.
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- ryzno
**** you man! Where have I ever called them towel heads? WHERE?!
Also if you'd get your head out of your ass and read his post. They went in to hiding after being broken down. Sounds familiar, your article in no way says they are done. "Shadow of former self". Get your head out of your ass, stop giving Tex a reach around and accept the fact they are probably waiting to do the same.
We ****ed everything up over there regardless of country or group. Stop trying to be the hey look at this idiot guy and channel your energy to something more important like caring about your UK brothers and sisters stuck there.
Selfish prick.
Thank you for your service brother or sister. I'm turning off GTP notifications and gonna watch them now.
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UKMikey
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I read his post again. He's responding to a question about what happened to the Taliban. It doesn't mention Al-Qaeda. This is the third time you've confused the two. Not sure why. Maybe they look the same to you? You then started talking about racist assholes for some reason. Well, if the cap or towel fits, wear it. If you're not guilty of something then you have no reason to be offended by it. That's what the phrase means.
The article says they got stomped like @Danoff said they did. Not sure why you think they're such a concern compared to the Taliban who were just rearmed and Da'esh who are as strong as ever. But thanks for the profanity and gay slur, hopefully you really are done with me now even though I suspect taking you at your word may be too much to hope for.
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- ryzno
Don't trying changing it now bro. You made the racist comment. You wanting to feel superior to me than show concern over your fellow citizens who are stuck there too, is sickening. You've lost all respect from me.
Good day sir.
Back to more important things like Bloods videos.
Oh and Obiden is talking right now...
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UKMikey
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I just wondered why you keep getting different terrorist groups mixed up. That hasn't changed. Since I don't think they're all towelheads, that doesn't make me racist.
I've demonstrated concern over the people who are stuck there whether they're my fellow citizens or not.
It seems like every new post you're accusing me of something different. First I'm a racist, now I'm unconcerned with the people over there. Simply for pointing out that Al-Qaeda's presence in Afghanistan is diminished now so the US accomplished its goals even though its exit strategy stinks. That's why I was laughing.
The ones about the Taliban, not Al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, ISIS have formally claimed responsibility for the suicide bomber.
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- ryzno
Do you know how stupid you just made yourself sound?If you change one word and I said that you'd be peeing yourself in glee and call me a racist.
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I know they are different groups buddy. Thanks Captin Obvious. Again my crypts and blood reference and prove they aren't just waiting in hiding, growing, but of course you'd never know. So buzz off racist.
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While you're flaming out for some reason after quite clearly smooshing the Taliban and Al Qaeda - and also Da'esh - into a generic "they" on several occasions... isn't it the "Crips", or has some new street gang quite literally surfaced from graveyards?
Incidentally you've been here more than long enough to know it's not acceptable to hurl insults at other people and make boorish insinuations of homosexuality. Pack it in.
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- Simcoeace
I'm going to take a look at those video clips.
Bottom line: these are multi-faceted & complex situations & no amount of American "can-do" optimism is capable of sorting out the complexity. Afghanistan turned into a quagmire in much the same way that Iraq did & Vietnam before that.
I remember how the "forces of the "Northern Alliance", with assistance from US special ops forces appear to have overthrown the Taliban in 2001/02 in fairly short order. How did that happen? I also remember how ISIS seemed like an unstoppable force in Syria/Iraq ... until they weren't. A major part of the offensive against ISIS was carried out by Kurdish forces with support from the US ... but following the collapse of the ISIS "caliphate" the US apparently turned its back on the Kurds in order to appease Turkey. The Middle East always seems to be an almighty mess in which picking sides is a thankless task.
Keef
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This is a big deal. Honestly I'm not sure why, I just know it is. I mean, the layers to all this are so complicated it's almost funny. We already knew that the Taliban were not fans of ISIS et al, and we knew that China was happy we had our hands full in Afghanistan for this long. But now that we're getting out, China is starting a propaganda campaign acting like the Taliban is interested in anything they have to say, and now ISIS-K is back harassing the Taliban directly. What the hell.
The toilet of Afghanistan has been clogged with America for 20 years, and now that we've plunged ourselves free, the poo water is flowing in the most ridiculous directions. Finally, the Taliban can be China's problem...and ISIS can be the Taliban's problem, apparently. I really wish we could've gotten through these last few days without losing anybody else, god damn it. But after this I don't ever want to read the name Afghanistan again, I don't want to see it in the news, I don't want anything to do with it. I hate that our soldiers tried their damndest to make something useful out of that place and this is what we end up with.
Haven't you ever heard of Tales from the Crip?
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I'm not here to make excuses for any American foreign policy decision even though it's directly affected my life. I have the utmost respect for the Kurds and it broke my heart we abandoned them. But it wasn't so much that we abandoned them. It was a decision by the Trump administration to abandon them. It was not popular among the military community. It was the point I lost all faith in Trump and it had someone I admire (Jim Mattis) resign from being the Secretary of Defense. It's understood that abandoning allies is bad form and actually directly affects national security. You lose credibility and people who you've worked with in the past might not want to work with you in the future or may even turn heel on you. The US is not firm on commitments and it irritates me to no end. You need partnerships and allies when fighting common enemies. It's a sore spot with me and will continue to be. Especially given recent developments such as what happened today.
Generally speaking, no one seems too upset about the idea that it was time to get out. It's one of the rare bipartisan positions you'll find in the US. But there was never a rational plan for withdrawal and we are seeing the repercussions of that. I hate the way this has turned out and it's personal with me. We wouldn't have gone if it weren't for politicians acting as Generals. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden. Doesn't mater. It's horrifying what has happened.
McLaren
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K designates the region they're from, I believe.
I would expect it more of a struggle between the Taliban & ISIL-K. Al-Qaeda is still active in Afghanistan with numbers of around 400-600, but Wiki has a source stating the group has "suffered from a deterioration of central command over its regional operations" this year. Taliban numbers are reported 75,000 & ISIL-K has 1,000 (US est.), 2,500 (UK est.), & 10,000 (Russian est.). Wiki does state Al-Qaeda has a possible world-total value of 31,400-57,600, but I have sincere doubts Al-Qaeda will be able to bring in significant numbers to combat either. And while I haven't read any info yet to show me otherwise, I would expect Al-Qaeda to potentially throw more support behind the Taliban anyway given their history together given in the Wiki. With ISIL-K, it reports that Al-Qaeda distanced themselves from them after the Syria conflict.
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