The visual detail that drives me mad...

[Nacho Libre]

Is the cars turning into opaque bodies inside the tunnels of the game! It happens in Bernese Alps, Dubai and Rio, but when you go to photo mode you can see that the cars actually reflect the lights inside the tunnel, as dim as they are in the Xbox One version.

I don't remember this being an issue in the tunnel of Bernese Alps in Forza 4 (in Forza 5 it didn't had any lights as I recall!), but it did happened in Forza 6 and I hoped it would be corrected. Can Xbox One X owners tell us how it is in their game? Could it be fixed or does the Xbox One lacks the power to have better lighting?

 

[Its No Use]

Is the cars turning into opaque bodies inside the tunnels of the game! It happens in Bernese Alps, Dubai and Rio, but when you go to photo mode you can see that the cars actually reflect the lights inside the tunnel, as dim as they are in the Xbox One version.

I don't remember this being an issue in the tunnel of Bernese Alps in Forza 4 (in Forza 5 it didn't had any lights as I recall!), but it did happened in Forza 6 and I hoped it would be corrected. Can Xbox One X owners tell us how it is in their game? Could it be fixed or does the Xbox One lacks the power to have better lighting?

I'm pretty sure the game is already pushing the limits of the (standard) Xbox One console, which is a bit embarrassing as they obviously had to nerf the graphics settings it keep it running at 60 fps.. or at least that's my theory.

 

[AnimaVesta]

Tunnels have always been a major issue in Forza Motorsport series.

 

[breyzipp]

2D trees

 

[Dopplegagger]

Tunnels have always been a major issue in Forza Motorsport series.

Correction... Lighting has always been a major issue in the Forza Motorsport series.

 

[VXR]

Correction... Lighting has always been a major issue in the Forza Motorsport series.

How true. Playing GT Sport and DC now makes it almost painful to look at FM pictures.

 

[ClydeYellow]

2D trees

Bah, every game on the market has "2d trees", the only problem is that Forza's sprites are done poorly and draw no shadow whatsoever. And seeing how GTSport has awful shadow pop in on their trees, I'm not sure the latter is really a problem.

Correction... Lighting has always been a major issue in the Forza Motorsport series.

True. The XBOX 360 Forzas had egregiously shoddy lighting and env mapping. They've been steadily improving since the FM5 days, sure, and FM7 features some gourgeous lighting effects on the cars... But we don't know what's the upper limit of the current Forzatech engine, so I guess all we can do is wait until they actually get it right, or give up and get a new engine?

 

[queleuleu]

Shaking wing mirrors at 100km/h in a 2017 Audi R8...

 

[TokoTurismo]

Shaking wing mirrors at 100km/h in a 2017 Audi R8...

I never cared for visuals in a racing game, but this is something I find rather...strange when playing F7.

Prefer if none of the parts on the cars have moved at all...

 

[Northstar]

give up and get a new engine?

I think that's our only hope of seeing any real advances in any of the areas that have been stagnant in the series. Painting, tuning, lighting and damage don't feel like they are at the level they should be. Hopefully when the next generation of consoles hits they will scrap everything except the car and track models and start from scratch (and not the FM5 "scratch" that obviously had a lot of stuff carried over).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The lighting is at its weakest in the mid-day settings. I know that's not a great time in the real world, but it's a blunt instrument at places like Mugello. The engine is capable of some spectacular visuals; I ran the Elise GT1 at a stormy Brands Hatch and the light reflections off the surface were stunning. But there's no subtlety to the lighting on some day tracks. Also, while I commend the addition of things like larger fields and weather/night, the graphics have had to be dialled back to maintain everything. Obviously that's less of an issue on the One X, but during these transition years, how the game looks on the base One should still matter. It's not a bad looking game on base hardware, but there are obvious limitations.

I hope the team never compromises on that frame rate though. It's sad a locked 60fps is so rare in the genre.

With the Forzatech engine being over half a decade old now, I wonder what the long-term plan is from T10/Playground.

 

[Dopplegagger]

Shaking wing mirrors at 100km/h in a 2017 Audi R8...

Sometimes all the shaking creates a cheap 3D effect, similar to PCARS' through the helmet cam. But still... instead of the entire mirror housing shaking like it's about to pop off the car, they could have really sold the effect if they managed to make the mirrors them selves shake.

But an even better use of recourses than all the shaking, could have went 1:1 steering animation, making antenna on LMPs flex (when they are visible) and better tire deformation. In FM7, tire deformation almost unnoticeable.

About the antenna flex...


I do have to note, that this video also shows a shaky mirror housing. Well... That's one way to blow a hole in one's own argument.

Forget it... They need to make the pit crew do the Harlem Shake at the end of every race.

 

[McLaren]

The shaking effect works for some pieces on some cars, but unfortunately, it’s exaggerated on most. I don’t think about it anymore when I see it; there’s other issues in the game that irk me enough.

 

[Dsavage27]

Let's not forget the shakey exhaust pipes on some cars...eg Alfa 33 stradale...what an ugly addition to a nice historic car.

 

[bf3]

2D trees

In most games with big car list.
Only those poor mans Forzas with less than 200cars managing to do "proper" trees,but then again,i rather have cars in racing Game than trees.
You just dont make sense at all.And again trying to troll on Forza forum - think you got warning?

 

[ClydeYellow]

I think that's our only hope of seeing any real advances in any of the areas that have been stagnant in the series. Painting, tuning, lighting and damage don't feel like they are at the level they should be. Hopefully when the next generation of consoles hits they will scrap everything except the car and track models and start from scratch (and not the FM5 "scratch" that obviously had a lot of stuff carried over).

I'll have to disagree on many aspects here. For starters, painting and tuning have little (if anything) to do with the aspect we were discussing - the graphics component of "Forzatech". And the reason they are so lackluster (well, the tuning may be, it's hard to call the painting "inadequate" when the only other game offering something similar is still miles behind in many aspects) is probably not engine limitations, but a desire to keep the experience as invariant as possible - if FM7 feels like past games, it's mostly by design. Secondarily, damage is something that never really took off in the GT-like genre; again, this is mostly because of non-technical (i.e. licensing) and development (it's hard to create a damage model for 700 cars) factors.

This leaves us with lighting. And honestly, I don't know. I'm not tech-savvy enough to speculate on the limits of the Forzatech engine; however, I feel like there are again other factors limiting T10's achievements more than any limit in the current technology - namely, the original XB1's hardware limits and the desire to keep the experience @60 FPS providing a very low ceiling, and an artistic vision that only recently embraced a more nuanced and realistic style.

FM7 looks absolutely gorgeous in certain (I have to say, the majority of) lightin conditions, and like something that came out three years ago in certain others. Which is which? Probably only the guys at T10 know.

 

[AlienDeathRay]

The fireworks displays on night time tracks. The fireworks look like they are being fired from 20 miles away, and 5 miles high. Really bad perspective. I noticed how different it was from Forza 6 immediately. Either do away with the fireworks altogether, or do it right.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Actually I have a completely new graphic peeve... The dark pit of dispair that is Silverstone at night!

 

[Dopplegagger]

The fireworks displays on night time tracks. The fireworks look like they are being fired from 20 miles away, and 5 miles high. Really bad perspective. I noticed how different it was from Forza 6 immediately. Either do away with the fireworks altogether, or do it right.

That's more lighting engine issues, and some lack of attention to detail. Bright lights in Forza appear dim, even in situations where they should be irritatingly bright. Shift lights, brake lights, headlight, dashboards and fireworks all seem to fall into this category. Shift lights (even the in dash warning light styled ones) are very noticeable during the day. Forza would have you believe that they are difficult to see in daylight. Anyone that's ever driven a car could tell you that's not the case.

When taken to a race at dusk, dawn or night, those lights should be brighter right? Nope... Not in Forza. They remain difficult to notice and don't throw any light of their own. Driving a 488, you'd expect the shift lights to be bright enough that you'd notice them as long as they are on the screen, right? Nope... If you aren't looking at them, they are unnoticeably dim.

On top of that, Turn 10 overlooked the dash displays that are constantly illuminated. Take the '08 Subaru WRX STI. The dash board isn't black with red lettering. That effect is created due to the backlit letters and bezels. When the car is off, the display is completely dark. Forza makes it seem like the dash is black and red at all times. Then theres the cars where the dash changes color when you reach the redline. Common sense says that should be pretty bright. After all, MFGs intend this to be a warning. Why would it be so dim, that it could be easily ignored. Almost mistakenly so?

Here's where I get chewed up about those who defend Forza. Everyone gives Turn 10 a pass because the game has "so many cars". But this has always been an issue since FM3. At what point do they fix this? FM 8? FM 9? 10? Or do they keep getting a pass because of the "content"?

 

[TonyJZX]

Actually I have a completely new graphic peeve... The dark pit of dispair that is Silverstone at night!

VIR night???

I think they will always remove little bits of detail to make 60fps and hope that no one notices.

One thing I noticed is that if you run V8 Supercars or Indy etc. then most of the cars are flat coloured but your car will have the full decals.

Obviously running 16 cars in decals is too much but it goes the other way when you're the only one.

 

[AlienDeathRay]

Since we've just been doing Sebring at night races, I thought I'd post about the night setting. The twilight and dawn scenarios are terrible and I find them a major distraction. (In the Sebring scenario), At Twilight, the Sun is above the horizon, and yet half the sky is lit and half the sky is dark. I lived in Florida for a few years, it's flat as a pancake. If the sun is above the horizon then the whole sky is lit. The same thing at dawn. Even where I live now in the mountains of Colorado, when the sun goes down, even behind the mountains, the whole sky is lit! I don't like the night driving at all, the headlights barely light up the dark, but please, Turn 10, at Night settings, keep the sun down below the horizon!

 

[th3o]

I find that the biggest issue with Forza 7 are the trees and the lighting system in place. Both look dated. The game does not look as vibrant as PCars2 or GT Sport. Lights dont really pop, the whole image does feel a bit more on the bland side. I also have to say that their in game car models dont hold up against the likes o AC and the other two mentioned.
Also the rims of the cars become 2D textures at a certain speed, it looks very strange when the rotating 3D model of the rim changes to a 2D texture.
All in all i feel that they cut too much in order to make room for dynamic weather and semi-dynamic time of day.
Also i am disappointed that the PC version is held back so it does not outshine the XBox One X version. You can clearly see that they could've implemented more bells and whistles there.
For what its worth: Given the power of the PS4 Pro, GT Sport is the better looking game. Turn10 and Microsoft had to come out with this native 4k, but at what cost? I feel that the game would've benefitted if it would do 1800p for example but then add more graphical details.

 

[queleuleu]

I find that the biggest issue with Forza 7 are the trees and the lighting system in place. Both look dated. The game does not look as vibrant as PCars2 or GT Sport. Lights dont really pop, the whole image does feel a bit more on the bland side. I also have to say that their in game car models dont hold up against the likes o AC and the other two mentioned.
Also the rims of the cars become 2D textures at a certain speed, it looks very strange when the rotating 3D model of the rim changes to a 2D texture.
All in all i feel that they cut too much in order to make room for dynamic weather and semi-dynamic time of day.
Also i am disappointed that the PC version is held back so it does not outshine the XBox One X version. You can clearly see that they could've implemented more bells and whistles there.
For what its worth: Given the power of the PS4 Pro, GT Sport is the better looking game. Turn10 and Microsoft had to come out with this native 4k, but at what cost? I feel that the game would've benefitted if it would do 1800p for example but then add more graphical details.

Something looks off in Forza 7. It should be my favorite racing game at the moment: tracks, cars, tuning, career mode... The checklist is completed, though I still prefer GTSport over Forza 7 for a single reason: the lighting. Compared to FH3, Forza 7 is several steps backward. Mapple Valley looks simply bad IMO. They really need to work on the art direction.

 

[th3o]

...

I can't believe that they had better trees in FM4 in 2011...
Sad, so sad.
Also the track looks and feels more visceral. FM7 version feels lackluster. And the lighting is so bad.

 

[AlienDeathRay]

I can't believe that they had better trees in FM4 in 2011...
Sad, so sad.
Also the track looks and feels more visceral. FM7 version feels lackluster. And the lighting is so bad.

"The Trees?", seriously? This is a RACING game! The focus should be on more Cars and Tracks, not 3D mapping trees. Honestly, if you're wizzing down Old Mulsanne at 190+ MPH do you really need to see the 3d texture of the trees? If you want trees go play Farming Simulator 7.

 

[queleuleu]

"The Trees?", seriously? This is a RACING game! The focus should be on more Cars and Tracks, not 3D mapping trees. Honestly, if you're wizzing down Old Mulsanne at 190+ MPH do you really need to see the 3d texture of the trees? If you want trees go play Farming Simulator 7.

The warm atmosphere of Autumn is gone at Mapple Valley. Where is the tree tunnel?

 

[th3o]

"The Trees?", seriously? This is a RACING game! The focus should be on more Cars and Tracks, not 3D mapping trees. Honestly, if you're wizzing down Old Mulsanne at 190+ MPH do you really need to see the 3d texture of the trees? If you want trees go play Farming Simulator 7.

I know this sort of answer very well and always am prepared to respond to this.
My response would be that a racing game is not only about the driving experience concerning the physics but is an overall package. And of course the visuals count into it. And yes, especially when i drive down a straight i have more than enough time to look also a bit around. When i take a corner my eye catches a glimpse of the curb-texture, of the ground texture next to the track etc. Even if you dont necessarily focus the 2D tree, you see the difference because its in your field of view. You'd like the game to be top notch as it gets on all levels, not only car models, not only physics model but also texture work and details of the track. The more real the track looks the more it adds to the overall immersion. So please, stop with this "This is a RACING game" argument as it just says absolutely nothing. Also, i dont get what this is to you? Its not like the game would suffer if we get better trees. Obviously the focus will always be physics and car models and the rest comes after that. So i don't get why you get so worked up about it. So its no point in belittleing me good sir ("Go play Farming Simulator 7").

 

[torque99]

Edit: I will take some direct screen captures rather than photo mode as when in cockpit view driving the lighting is great especially 4k AI cars and track detail.

 

[th3o]

I am over the last couple weeks surprised how far the lighting in AC has come. I play it in 4k on the PC on an OLED TV with everything maxed out and if you set the sun low or choose heavy clouds, the way the cars look, the tail and brake lights, the reflections, its just superb looking. The tracks in AC lack of course the detail of FM7, PCars2 or GTS, but to be honest, as an overall visual package i prefer AC at the moment. The car models to me are some of the best, the replays look superb. Except the relatively sterile tracks i dont see where Kunos cut down on the PC version whereas in FM7 i feel that my Win10 version is sort of 'crippled' so it does not outshine the X version. And GTSport also does some trickery to get it running on the PS4 and Pro.
And thats really my major point pro AC or PCars2 on the PC, that i dont feel that the PC version of those games feels crippled when turned up to the max, whereas i feel that with FM7 and GTS on the Pro. And it ruins the gaming experience for me a bit because as i posted earlier, i value graphics as much as physics in racing games.

@torque99
Screenshots look nice of course, but thats their nature as they are rendered and the background is blurred out. Also the car model is enhanced in photo mode, the car does not look like this in motion while gaming, or at least the opponents cars do not. Thats something btw where i feel FM7 looks a bit dated, the car models they use ingame seem a bit behind the direct competition. And like @SimTourist mentioned below, the reflections overall are really bad in FM7, cars look often almost matte.
I don't say FM7 looks bad, hell no. I just say that compared to PCars2 or GTS it does not look as visceral or vibrant in motion.

 

[SimTourist]

I still hold the opinion that the most realistic lighting Forza has ever achieved was in the Top Gear Test Track Homespace back in Forza 4, it just looked right and the closest to GT they ever got. On track current gen Forzas don't measure up to Forza 4 in a lot of cases as well, car reflections got severely downgraded and look really fake in FM7, when you're in cockpit/hood/1st person, your car has no reflection and same goes for AI cars as well, they all look matte and really poor, GT for example renders reflection in all view going as far back as GT3, although this is corrected on Xbonex. Overall the lighting engine is just really dated and has it's roots in the PS2 generation of systems. FM7 has a hard time compared even to GT5 Prologue from 2007, a 10 year old game. You can't take a shot that looks comparable in FM7.i

I'm sorry if my post is provoking, I'm a big fan of Forza and defended plenty of it's qualities, but sometimes I fire up those older games and wonder why the 10 years of advancement isn't showing up on my screen.