The VW I.D. R Sets a Blistering Qualifying Time up Pikes Peak; On a Record-Setting Pace

[Walkinshaw]

Maybe that’s the downhill time

 

[zr1chris]

Ah, I see.
No, not so much the time as much as I was discounting the full-asphalt-Pikes-Peak and the car's off-road capability.
But I do suppose the PM580 had a similar shape and also raced on dirt well

That leads me back to my first comment. They built the car for the current track. If it had been dirt then they would have built it at least somewhat different with that in mind.

 

[GT_Alex74]

This is not so surprizing. Honestly, the 208 T16 is a few years old now, plus it was as purpose built as a LeMons car is. Well, with factory support and brand new LMP1 parts, but it's still somewhat a Frankenstein job - a good one with great engineering, but that's still a road car body grafted onto something else with a different engine that something else was built around, and simple but huge wings for aero. They just came here for fun, and the hommage / marketing operation, knowing they had no competition.

The VW project on the other hand was designed from scratch to tackle this, the body was designed for this, so aero is much better on this car. Plus, coming after Peugeot, they had a set goal. It may have a slower 0-60 time but that's not relevant at this power level, plus you do it only one time over the whole course. I don't know if the VW has a gearbox or a CVT of some kind or anything else, which could hinder the 0-60 times (think launching in 3rd gear). Even if the power/weight ratio is not in favor of the VW, electric engines have an instant and more constant power delivery, which is very important, especially on a course with hairpins. I still think the aero helped a bit more, but that definitely played a part in building such a gap to the previous record.

Anyway, Sébastien Loeb is setting up a hillclimb event in France on the Col de la Faucille, not far from me, on september 23, he'll drive the 208 T16 there and Romain will also show up with the VW IDR, so I'll have the chance to see them running back to back.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

I'm legitimately confused. When I saw the horsepower and weight of the car, I thought it would only be in contention with Rhys Millen's 2016 record, which was done in a car with much more power being put down. I know that EVs are advantageous at maintaining power output at higher altitudes, but the 2016 Rimac car had the same torque and altitude advantages as the VW I.D. R, but the VW went 15 seconds faster than the Peugeot 208 with significantly less power and more weight. How did they do that? Was it the driver's skill? The Aero? Maybe it had more torque than the Rimac from 2 years ago? I'm not trying to downplay it's incredible performance, I'm just trying to understand something that was not apparent in the specs that gave it such an advantage.

Aero is certainly a big factor, not just in terms of downforce but also efficiency (DF/Drag ratio). Then you have instant power/torque delivery for a rocket-like acceleration (not that the T16 was slow, but EVs set the bar higher) and maybe even more top speed (the average for Loeb was 87 and, if i'm not mistaken, the 208 hit the limiter more than once). Plus, Loeb didn't have any on-track experience before 2013, while Dumas is a veteran.

 

[Joey D]

Pikes Peak is, for the most part, a tourist attraction which is why it's paved. Think about, you have a family from Kansas that's never seen a mountain, let alone a hill, head out to Pike Peak for a family holiday. The dad is probably already a bit nervous driving the family minivan up the mountain, but add in dirt and it's even more nerve-wracking for him.

I'm also curious about the race going forward. I'm guessing the record will begin to fall pretty rapidly now. EV power makes way more sense for the Pike Peak Hillclimb since electric motors don't lose horsepower at elevation. I know there's been a ton of EV cars to tackle the event over the past few years, but going forward any factory team that wants a go at it will probably go EV.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

Pikes Peak is, for the most part, a tourist attraction which is why it's paved. Think about, you have a family from Kansas that's never seen a mountain, let alone a hill, head out to Pike Peak for a family holiday. The dad is probably already a bit nervous driving the family minivan up the mountain, but add in dirt and it's even more nerve-wracking for him.

As far as I know, they were forced to pave it after the Sierra Club's lawsuit.

"The group sued in 1998, claiming that 1.5 million tons of gravel dumped on the highway since 1970 had polluted streams, damaged vegetation and choked wetlands. The city, which runs the highway for the U.S. Forest Service, agreed in a settlement to complete paving by 2012."
https://www.denverpost.com/2011/09/...es-peak-road-13-years-after-sierra-club-suit/

A much more in-depth explanation was available on PPIHC's website, but it's been down since yesteday (http://ppihc.org/paving-pikes-peak-competitors/)

 

[Moby45]

I am curious what Porsche's 919 Hybrid racer would have done. Not the one used in WEC but the one they were touring around all the racetracks with no rule-set to hold them back.

 

[Tyger]

Gran Turismo advertising on the car. OK there's a fair bit of that around nowadays but maybe, just maybe we'll finally see the mountain in GT7?

 

[Auditore]

Gran Turismo advertising on the car. OK there's a fair bit of that around nowadays but maybe, just maybe we'll finally see the mountain in GT7?

The main sponsor this year is Gran Turismo so it's reasonable to think its coming in a Rally update,but PD also loves to put the GT logo everywhere they can,i wouldn't be surprised if a NASA rocket used that damn logo

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Gran Turismo advertising on the car. OK there's a fair bit of that around nowadays but maybe, just maybe we'll finally see the mountain in GT7?

Drink!

 

[danimac]

The Gran turismo banner is on this car so I hope it’s making its way to GTS and Pikes Peak.

 

[danimac]

He’s a picture of it and a closer look.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The Gran turismo banner is on this car so I hope it’s making its way to GTS and Pikes Peak.

You missed the comments above yours. The main sponsor of the event is Gran Turismo, so the banner was on pretty much every car.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Heh, as surprised as everyone here that VW beats the Pug. So much for my analysis...

I guess the power loss from ICE engines is really just that large in the latter stages of the course. If you think the climb gets steeper and there are more hairpins near the top, then the power loss really will make a difference. In addition I suspect the VW has better weight distribution, and better aero since it's purpose built. I still think driver wise they are similar in skill, but we won't know for sure until Dumas drives the Pug.

I won't be so quick to say EVs are going to takeover motorsports from ICE just yet though. For one, the VW only got that light because they only carry the minimum battery needed to get up the mountain. In a normal race over many laps range vs weight is still an issue for EVs. Battery swaps will make things closer, but I think battery energy density can't match gasoline just yet...

 

[trustjab]

Heh, as surprised as everyone here that VW beats the Pug. So much for my analysis...

I guess the power loss from ICE engines is really just that large in the latter stages of the course. If you think the climb gets steeper and there are more hairpins near the top, then the power loss really will make a difference. In addition I suspect the VW has better weight distribution, and better aero since it's purpose built. I still think driver wise they are similar in skill, but we won't know for sure until Dumas drives the Pug.

I won't be so quick to say EVs are going to takeover motorsports from ICE just yet though. For one, the VW only got that light because they only carry the minimum battery needed to get up the mountain. In a normal race over many laps range vs weight is still an issue for EVs. Battery swaps will make things closer, but I think battery energy density can't match gasoline just yet...

According to the splits, he was faster in the lower part before elevation takes a huge toll. The vw crew felt they could have gone 10 seconds faster too. I think he hit cloud cover towards the end of the run.