They fixed the clutch/throttle lockout issue. (Update 2.10) Yes!!

[research]

refer to these threads to get an idea of the frustrating problem:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=245942

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=264962


And it's on!! Just had my first go since updating to 2.10- 9 laps of Laguna Seca in a classic SW20 using my Logitech G25 in 'gate shift' mode. The only time I missed a shift was when I grossly misapplied the pedals- and this was due to me testing the limits of the new programming while racing. We're back in business my heel-toeing, gate-rowing brethren. 👍 👍 👍


Polyphony Digital, I am one of your harshest and most vocal critics- but MAJOR credit is due here for this fix. I'll meet you guys at the closest bar in Fukuoka. First 2 rounds are on me.

Anyone who cares to try- go wipe the dust off your clutch pedal and have a run with your shifter in the gated mode. Let us know what you think.

 

[1241Penguin]

Can you describe the changes? I didn't notice any personally.

 

[research]

sure thing. If you read the linked thread from the OP you will see many descriptions of the problem- basically you had to completely lift off the throttle, then press the clutch in, move the shifter into the next gear, let off the clutch and get back on the gas. All of this sounds very normal exept in RL you do not have to lift all the way off the throttle before beginning to press the clutch. In GT5 this normal shifting action (beginning to press clutch while letting off throttle) would result in you being placed into neutral, revving to high heaven, and needing to let completely off the throttle again, press clutch, re-select gear, etc.. All while your opponents disappear around the next bend.

Now you can start pressing the clutch in before fully letting off the throttle and make a perfectly successful shift. It is SO much fun to drive with the gated shifter now. Downshifting is especially sweet and much more lifelike, and infinitely less frustrating.

I am in no way trying to say that I like to flat-shift, powershift, etc. I've driven stick shifts for 15 years, been on motorized vehicles of all kinds since age 5. To quote my boy Raikonnen, "I know what I'm doing" lol

Also I think only the Logitech G-series wheels were affected, unless someone else can confirm that other wheels with a gated shifter also suffered from this quirky problem that won't be missed!

 

[1241Penguin]

Interesting. I'll pay attention to the points you listed the next time I play.

 

[NjLowrider]

I've driven with my g27 and it still feels the same to me.

 

[huhobanut]

I've noticed this problem too ... I'll check later to see if its improved it ..!!

 

[sik180sx]

Clutch is still broken.

 

[Bluntified]

It feels the same to me, since 2.09 or 2.08? I can't remember which one it was, it allowed us 10-25% (give or take) overlay so that isn't new. I'm on a G27.

Edit, you might want to change the title until you gather some conclusive evidence (a video or something) , it's a little misleading when you say "it's fixed".

 

[VBR]

Now you can start pressing the clutch in before fully letting off the throttle and make a perfectly successful shift.

I've always simultaneously depressed the clutch as I come of the gas, & it's never once caused me to mis-shift. The problem in GT5 with the clutch is not being able to power shift, ie; shift while the gas pedal is registering. The other problem (that was introduced in the 2.09 update) is where you have to press the clutch nearly all the way down or it won't shift. Has that been fixed?

 

[Bluntified]

I've always simultaneously depressed the clutch as I come of the gas, & it's never once caused me to mis-shift. The problem in GT5 with the clutch is not being able to power shift, ie; shift while the gas pedal is registering. The other problem (that was introduced in the 2.09 update) is where you have to press the clutch nearly all the way down or it won't shift. Has that been fixed?

You can get away with about 80% clutch 10% throttle and it will register.

 

[VBR]

You can get away with about 80% clutch 10% throttle and it will register.

After the 2.09 update I tested that theory. Whilst coasting along, I depressed the throttle about 10%, held it there consistantly, then tried to shift. And guess what? Yep, it threw me into neutral. I tried this several times, even with the tiniest amount of throttle it still thows me into neutral.

Try testing this slowly & deliberately (not when driving/racing) & see if it'll let you shift.

 

[Bluntified]

After the 2.09 update I tested that theory. Whilst coasting along, I depressed the throttle about 10%, held it there consistantly, then tried to shift. And guess what? Yep, it threw me into neutral. I tried this several times, even with the tiniest amount of throttle it still thows me into neutral.

Try testing this slowly & deliberately (not when driving/racing) & see if it'll let you shift.

Your problem is that you weren't high enough in the power band to shift! GT's shifting with these wheels work best when you're higher up in the power band. If you're only coasting with 10% throttle, you're probably too low in the power band! With GT's clutch model, you can't be too slow or fast, you need to find the sweet spot. Not very realistic at all.

I've tried and test this, I drift exclusively using the clutch (as per my sig ). I never mis-shift, anymore since the update where they improved the clutch. Anyone here that drifts will know that if take your foot off the throttle for too long, especially ending a drift, you'll straiten out and spin/end the drift! The only way for me to gear up is with a touch of throttle or I'd be spinning out at every corner.

Edit, I've been using the clutch in this game way back when it was really an "on/off" switch. It's come A LOOOONG way since then, not perfect but usable, IMO.

Edit 2: What wheel are you using?

 

[GODfreyGT5]

He said already, G25

 

[Ghoa$t]

It's still just as broken as it was in 2.09.

 

[D-Max]

He said already, G25

It's nice you all have g27's but yeah, he said g25!

 

[Griffith500]

Your problem is that you weren't high enough in the power band to shift! GT's shifting with these wheels work best when you're higher up in the power band. If you're only coasting with 10% throttle, you're probably too low in the power band! With GT's clutch model, you can't be too slow or fast, you need to find the sweet spot. Not very realistic at all.

I've tried and test this, I drift exclusively using the clutch (as per my sig ). I never mis-shift, anymore since the update where they improved the clutch. Anyone here that drifts will know that if take your foot off the throttle for too long, especially ending a drift, you'll straiten out and spin/end the drift! The only way for me to gear up is with a touch of throttle or I'd be spinning out at every corner.

Edit, I've been using the clutch in this game way back when it was really an "on/off" switch. It's come A LOOOONG way since then, not perfect but usable, IMO.

Edit 2: What wheel are you using?

Yep, room for improvement still, but there's been plenty of improvement to it already. There really needs to be an underlying physics (and mechanical damage) change for the clutch feel to be improved and for flat shifting to be allowed.

The only thing I think it really needs is for it to constantly try to engage a gear as long as it's selected - that way when you miss a gear, you only need to dip the clutch and you'll be on your way again.

 

[VBR]

Your problem is that you weren't high enough in the power band to shift! GT's shifting with these wheels work best when you're higher up in the power band. If you're only coasting with 10% throttle, you're probably too low in the power band! With GT's clutch model, you can't be too slow or fast, you need to find the sweet spot. Not very realistic at all.

Edit 2: What wheel are you using?

I tested it again just now with my Premium Roadster '07 on Tsukuba, & got different results after this update. Before I couldn't powershift at all, since the update I can now powershift with up to 20% throttle applied. I was coasting along with medium to low RPM with 20% throttle aplied & could shift to any gear I wanted. They've changed it since the last time I tested it.

Also, I noticed that the gear read out on the HUD changes from white to grey when the clutch hits the bite point, dunno if this is new or if I just never noticed it before. You're right, the bite point is about 80% of the way down, however it's lower on mine as I have the Nixim short throw clutch mod installed. The bite point needs to be higher IMO, maybe at 60% pedal depression.

In answer to your question, I'm using a G25.

 

[research]

... The other problem (that was introduced in the 2.09 update) is where you have to press the clutch nearly all the way down or it won't shift. Has that been fixed?

I believe (have not confirmed) that the clutch "catch point" is still pretty low on the pedal travel- introduced in 2.09. I was always ok with this- because the throttle lock-out was the actual root of our mass miss-shifting issue. It would be nice if we could adjust the catch point for each car's clutch in the tuning screen.

... The only thing I think it really needs is for it to constantly try to engage a gear as long as it's selected - that way when you miss a gear, you only need to dip the clutch and you'll be on your way again.

^ I agree with this pertinent statement.

To you guys who are saying that 'the clutch is still broken' - can you describe whats happening to you, please? I have typed, in detail, what the problem was- and all I know is that, suddenly after this update (2.10) I am blasting around like quick-shift McGraw and smiling from ear to ear. NO missed shifts. Whereas before I would miss about 3-4 shifts per lap, pause, switch the G25 stick to sequential/slap mode, and restart my race with a big frown. There is no placebo effect here. They fixed it.

👍

 

[another_jakhole]

After the 2.09 update I tested that theory. Whilst coasting along, I depressed the throttle about 10%, held it there consistantly, then tried to shift. And guess what? Yep, it threw me into neutral. I tried this several times, even with the tiniest amount of throttle it still thows me into neutral.

Try testing this slowly & deliberately (not when driving/racing) & see if it'll let you shift.

That's odd. I noticed the better clutch/shifting model after 2.09.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7799739#post7799739
Has that ^^^, my old post, anything to do with this thread topic? I noticed that you can progressively let go of the clutch while doing the same to the gas pedal at the same time after update 2.09. I only didn't mention it since there weren't any replies.

When I updated to 2.10 while the maintenance was still going on (for 10 minutes longer), I kept missing gears back to back to back. Not saying it's worse for me after this update or anything. Only that I know for a fact that it was like this (or maybe it wasn't as good until 2.10) after 2.09.

 

[CarBastard]

To be honest I haven't found a difference. It's still the same. I can't put my finger on exactly what is that doesn't work, you guys have done a better job at that. I just can't see what I'm doing wrong. I almost never miss a shift when playing, for instance, Live for Speed neither when I'm actually driving a car. Foot entirely off the gas, clutch fully in, engage gear, clutch out, foot full on the gas; it's always worked for me...except on GT5 for Kaz knows what reason 👎.

 

[nfdids]

I still have the problem

 

[amarios]

Still broken.

 

[Bluntified]

He said already, G25

It's nice you all have g27's but yeah, he said g25!

Nice trolling but NOWHERE in his posts did he mention what wheel he was using! I triple checked and got my girl to re-read it just to make sure, nothing.

Great contribution to the topic 👍.

Back on topic, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that it was update 2.08 that had a massive clutch overhaul for the G series.

 

[RacingPanda]

using my Logitech G25 in 'gate shift' mode.

See, he said Logitech G25.

 

[mavryk_gt]

Still feels the same as a week ago...

G27, Bangs into N far too often.

 

[GTPorsche]

Pretty sure if the clutch was adjusted, PD would have mentioned it as they have the previous times it's happened.

 

[Bluntified]

See, he said Logitech G25.

I was talking with VBR. That's who the question was aimed at, not researchALLwars.

 

[research]

Pretty sure if the clutch was adjusted, PD would have mentioned it as they have the previous times it's happened.

well here's the thing about that- they notified us of a change in the catch-point of the clutch for the G series wheels. What has happened here in 2.10, it appears, is a significant adjustment to the 'throttle lockout'. The clutch itself has remained the same, as far as I can tell.

The throttle lockout could quite easily have been considered an overlooked mistake, making it something that likely could go unmentioned upon being fixed. Just browse a few Unannounced Changes threads to see how much they love to do such things. It's one of their favorite practices.

* I'm changing the thread title now to reflect the specifics. Apologies for any confusion- even though I have thoroughly explained what is going on with the Logitech G series pedals after update 2.10.

 

[Goshin2568]

Its definitely different now. You can keep on a bit of throttle while shifting now. Not perfect though. Still too many missed downshifts.

 

[research]

Ok I've done some extensive testing after taking the "it's still broken" crowd seriously. The catch-point of the clutch is still quite far down on the pedal stroke, which has been the case since update 2.08 in late september:

• Response of the clutch pedal when using the steering wheel controllers “G25 Racing Wheel”, “G27 Racing Wheel”, “T500RS” and “TH8RS” has been adjusted.

During testing I was able to nearly flat-shift, just barely letting off the throttle at all. As long as you consciously push that clutch past the catch-point (almost to the floor), you can and will get into the next gear. It is difficult for some of us to train our subconscious mind to tell our foot to press that clutch so far down- and even a slight error here will result in a missed shift. This puts us in nuetral, motor screaming, and brings back the same frustrating feeling associated with the broken clutch model of old.

During testing I was able to observe the minimal throttle lift in the replays. I got to a point where I could consistently shift while still at 95% throttle**. The replay will clearly show the throttle indicator only dropping about 1 or 2 pixels from full. This was NOT possible before 2.10.

Once again, train that clutch foot to press that pedal way down for every shift, and it will eventually become second nature with repetition. The old throttle-lockout has been removed- at least up to 95%**. I am having the most fun I've had in a while playing GT5.

Thank you, PD.

EDIT: ** See post #39