Tips for FWD driver learning RWD?

[Woodski_427]

My tuned versions are fine and dandy. The stock versions, when you don't kick the tail out, understeer more than most of their rivals, is what I'm saying.

Sure, and I'm with you there :-). I was really aiming comments at the OP as she seems to be unfamiliar with many of the cars 👍.

 

[lbpomg95]

Sure, and I'm with you there :-). I was really aiming comments at the OP as she seems to be unfamiliar with many of the cars 👍.

My apologies, I misunderstood your earlier post. Either way, a TVR is a good car to introduce one to rear drive supercars. The Lotus Esprit is quite good as well, as it can be tame and tail happy without much practice.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

What’s next, rear-wheel steering?

Hi. Do you have a moment to talk about the FC generation of the Mazda RX-7?

Mazda also introduced Dynamic Tracking Suspension System (DTSS) in the 2nd generation RX-7. The revised independent rear suspension incorporated special toe control hubs which were capable of introducing a limited degree of passive rear steering under cornering loads. The DTSS worked by allowing a slight amount of toe-out under normal driving conditions but induced slight toe-in under heavier cornering loads at around 0.5 G's or more; toe-out in the rear allows for a more responsive rotation of the rear, but toe-in allowed for a more stable rear under heavier cornering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_RX-7#Second_generation_.28FC.29

Okay, seriously, I'm not sure if I'm too late to join the answering party, but regardless, it might be useful to hear the opinion of the guy that CAN'T drive FWD cars.

The advantage in RWD cars is that they make more even use of the front and rear tyres. In contrast to FWD cars, whose rear tyres are just there to keep the rear end off the ground, RWD cars obviously put their power down through their rear wheels. That way, the front tyres are only used for steering and most of the braking, while the rear wheels do some of the braking and all of the power delivery. In short sprints, this isn't much of an advantage. However, if you're playing with tyre wear and fuel consumption on, this is an invaluable advantage to have, and I'd even argue that it makes a car safer for longer races.

Secondly, RWD cars tend to have a weight distribution that is closer to the ideal 50:50 front to rear split, with some cars having exactly that. Why is this important? Well, in a FF car, all of the car's complicated bits are at the front, where the engine and driven wheels are. This gives the front a lot of inertia. If you don't know what inertia is, basically the front is way too heavy and thus sloggy and unwilling to change directions quickly, resulting in understeer. The massive weight over the front tyres will also mean better traction on the front wheels, yes. But at the same time, it makes tyre wear management harder. The tyres of a car might be viewed as erasers for easier understanding: it's like using an eraser with a lot of force every time you want to erase something, no matter how minor. Eventually you'll run out of rubber to work with, in which case you're in huge trouble. Another disadvantage in FWD cars is that when they accelerate, the body of the car leans towards the rear wheels. This effectively takes weight off the front wheels, aka the only wheels that matter in a FWD car. Quite counter-productive in my opinion.

With a weight distribution closer to 50:50, it is easier to control and thus manage the loads you're putting on the tyres, which already have a more well distributed workload to begin with. Some examples of cars with 50:50 weight distribution are the FD generation Mazda RX-7s, the RX-8, the Honda S2000, and the Toyota 86. Not coincidentally, they're all personal favourites of mine. Because of the perfect weight distribution they possess, they have just the right amount of inertia at the front and rear, making them predictable and willing in corners.

Lastly, in real life, powerful FWD cars suffer from something called "Torque Steer". Basically, the front tyres are unable to handle the torque from the engine, and thus the car starts to steer by itself without even your input. This effectively puts a cap on the power that you can put in a FWD car's engine.

I understand that RWD cars are a lot trickier to drive than FWDs, but I personally think that the effort to learn the techniques to control a RWD car, and the time spent to develop the instincts to correct a hairy situation in one is well worth it. I'd suggest the first step to learning is to be patient; don't just boot the brakes or throttle as you would in a FWD. Instead, when approaching a corner, it's best to point your car in a straight line in which you'd like your car to head towards, THEN slam the brakes (assuming you play with ABS on). When the clipping point of the corner draws near, ease up on the brakes to use the front tyres' traction to turn the car rather than stop the car. Once you're past the clipping point and the exit is visible, GENTLY get on the throttle. If you feel and/ or hear your rear tyres start to slip, you can let off the gas for a bit and apply a bit of counter steering, which to my understanding is just "steering in the opposite direction of the one your car is threatening to spear off towards out of your control". Of course, the timing that you have to execute these moves and how much throttle/ steering you have to input can only be learned through practice, and will vary from car to car.

I think that driving technique is important, but so is choosing the right car. As many have already stated, cars good for learning RWD techniques in my opinion are the Mazda RX-8, Honda S2000 and the Toyota 86. These are lightweight, simple RWDs that don't have any "electronic nannies" that alter the behaviour of the car. From there, you can gradually work your way up to cars the likes of the Chevrolet Corvettes and the Lexus LFAs.

Of course, all of the cars I named above are FRs: cars with their engines at the front with the driven wheels at the rear. I'm not particularly good with MRs, those being cars with the engine mounted in the middle of the car with the driven wheels at the rear. I've always found that these cars were too heavy at the rear. That makes it easy to put power down and get out of a corner. But if something goes wrong and your rear starts to slip, the heavier rear end is more difficult to correct.