Tires grades seem off

[warpspeed2slow]

I will probably get flamed for this but this is just my opinion. I feel that the grip the racing tires offer have no equal in real racing.

My own small track experience makes me cringe anytime I try a tire that has more grip than Sports-Soft in GT5. My feeling is that's the tire that relates to soft slicks but I allow that it could actually be weight deficiencies in the handling model that makes it seem that way.

 

[Kaaosherra]

I have no RL experience, but I think GT overdoes the grip, too. There has always been more grip in GT than in more hardcore simulations.

 

[HN7]

The grip level in GT is what you would describe as a perfect track day (ideal temperature, clean track surface,...). There's too much variable IRL that GT can't possibly recreate them all.

 

[oppositelock]

I think someone tested the GT4 tires against real-world track times and came to the conclusion that the comfort tires were comparable to real high performance street tires, sport tires were comparable to slicks, and the slicks were totally beyond any tire in existance in terms of grip.

 

[andy63]

if i can say what i think the grip level in GT is about right. i have a Mitsubishi Outlander 2010(a SUV) and is the "sport" version or whatever.
But that car is more amazing than any car in game. i dont own any performence tires.
This car have so much grip i dont know what, and if it would loose grip it would be becuse of my entry speed. and it would always be understeer. I guess thats how cars are built now days..... understeers like hell.
and i can enter a 90 degree corner easily in 70-80 kph.
Also in the wet GT is way harder. My car got so much grip. So i find GT harder actually. in some cars, not all. I dont know how the slicks represent irl slicks. but in regular tires like comforts they are much more slippery than in reality.

 

[warpspeed2slow]

I think someone tested the GT4 tires against real-world track times and came to the conclusion that the comfort tires were comparable to real high performance street tires, sport tires were comparable to slicks, and the slicks were totally beyond any tire in existance in terms of grip.

Wow, didn't know about that, but it is exactly like my own test results.

Also, I am not able to tune out what seems to be excess understeer(not GT4 level understeer but still some excess) without resorting to mixing grades with regards to front and back tires.

Any one else trying this?

 

[warpspeed2slow]

if i can say what i think the grip level in GT is about right. i have a Mitsubishi Outlander 2010(a SUV) and is the "sport" version or whatever.
But that car is more amazing than any car in game. i dont own any performence tires.
This car have so much grip i dont know what, and if it would loose grip it would be becuse of my entry speed, and i can enter a 90 degree corner easily in 70-80 kph.
Also in the wet GT is way harder. My car got so much grip. So i find GT harder actually. in some cars, not all. I dont know how the slicks represent irl slicks. but in regular tires like comforts they are much more slippery than in reality.

On a track your usually coming into a turn at a higher top speed and then quickly slowing down, that causes weight upsets in your vehicle which would surprise you at the speeds you mention. I think you would find that comfort tires to be realistic as your SUV's tires on track, possible, no?

When talking about wet driving that is a whole other can of tomatoes. Who knows, on track how realistic or not it is with no experience.

 

[Supermelon]

I think someone tested the GT4 tires against real-world track times and came to the conclusion that the comfort tires were comparable to real high performance street tires, sport tires were comparable to slicks, and the slicks were totally beyond any tire in existance in terms of grip.

I think this is pretty accurate. Look at the G force meter at the bottom, when using sport hard tires it can reach almost 1.3G of constant lateral acceleration during cornering. In real life even a 458 italia couldn't do that.

I think people tend to overestimate their car's ability in real life as they rarely or never even reach the limits of the tires.
I'm not an expert in tires or racing but I've been to a few trackdays near me and feel the that the All Season tires I had on my car do feel very similar to the comfort medium in the game.

 

[Zer0]

Some real life comparisons:

 

[warpspeed2slow]

Some real life comparisons:

Lol, that doesn't mean that GT5's track times aren't catered to the unrealistic tire grades.

In the bottom video the steering inputs are not even close, showing that the grip is totally different. Where the real car is a handful, in GT5 the guy is cruising.

The thing is that you take the guy who did that lap in GT5 and put him on the real version of the track with the real car and he wouldn't be able to get anywhere near that time. He would think he was in a different car in regards to grip and handling.

 

[objp]

Matching real world lap times =/= realism.

The GT5 Miata video is laughable. The guy is just putting around not even wheeling it.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I will probably get flamed for this but this is just my opinion. I feel that the grip the racing tires offer have no equal in real racing.

My own small track experience makes me cringe anytime I try a tire that has more grip than Sports-Soft in GT5. My feeling is that's the tire that relates to soft slicks but I allow that it could actually be weight deficiencies in the handling model that makes it seem that way.

The tyre grip in Practice mode with the Real setting is less than the tyre grip in GT-Mode which matches the Low setting in Practice mode. Have you tried that?

 

[warpspeed2slow]

The tyre grip in Practice mode with the Real setting is less than the tyre grip in GT-Mode which matches the Low setting in Practice mode. Have you tried that?

I have, I can't see much of a difference except in wet and off track grip.

Do you guys playing the game with tires above sports soft think it feels anything like reality? Even on a perfect track day with slicks take a car above 120mph and things get slippery, it is scary.

 

[Zer0]

Lol, that doesn't mean that GT5's track times aren't catered to the unrealistic tire grades.

In the bottom video the steering inputs are not even close, showing that the grip is totally different. Where the real car is a handful, in GT5 the guy is cruising.

The thing is that you take the guy who did that lap in GT5 and put him on the real version of the track with the real car and he wouldn't be able to get anywhere near that time. He would think he was in a different car in regards to grip and handling.

Read the description, the driver is the same real life and GT5...

Just like my last video comparison of my turbo Miata (Mazdaspeed Miata) at Laguna Seca (other video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31bH2t... I decide to also compare my 1.6L Miata at Laguna Seca with the virtual version in GT5. Mods are listed as in the beginning of the film and the virtual version of my real car is recreated as closely as possible in the game. Immediately after, I did 15-20 laps with no practice to see if the virtual car matches the real car in terms of personal best lap times (game vs. real life).

In GT5, the ride height drop is actually limited in the game to -25mm from stock, that's much less than my real-life NA, which about 35-40mm from stock. I assume if I was allowed to drop my virtual car's ride height to real life specifications, then I'll probably have steering inputs in the game closely matching my real life footage. Basically, I'm much smoother in the steering input in the game because there seems to be more shock travel in the game.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I can't see much of a difference except in wet and off track grip.

Do you guys playing the game with tires above sports soft think it feels anything like reality? Even on a perfect track day with slicks take a car above 120mph and things get slippery, it is scary.

The description of the Low/Real setting states that it is for wet track & grass but it applies to dry tarmac as well.

 

[Exorcet]

I think the problem with tires is that their grip levels are fixed, where in a real car, even race tires can suffer from bad suspension.

As far as I can tell, downforce is the only way to change lateral grip in game.

 

[warpspeed2slow]

Read the description, the driver is the same real life and GT5...

I watched the video again and it proves my point, maybe your point as well if your agreeing with me. The tires in GT5 in the bottom video are comfort-softs, not the tires that GT5 would say compares to the tires in the compared actual race video.

 

[Tyger]

I don't have any "real life" experience of grip, but I do know that there is less of a feel of tyres coming into their own in GT5, in that in GT4 if I started with hard tyres the car would act accordingly but once they had worn in some, with a little graining, the lap times improved noticably, until they got too worn and the car becomes a handful again

Now it seems to be the same level of grip until they start to go off, which seems to happen rather suddenly but seldom as disastrously as in GT4 (in other words you can often still "make it" through the last few laps)

Also the tyre wear indicator I still really don't get in this game, I guess I need to read the manual!

 

[RC45]

I have, I can't see much of a difference except in wet and off track grip.

Do you guys playing the game with tires above sports soft think it feels anything like reality? Even on a perfect track day with slicks take a car above 120mph and things get slippery, it is scary.

I think you may be exaggerating a little. I think most people are. I have some in car video of some of my on-track experiences I have had (I will resist posting them as they may be construed as off-topic) with very high HP FR and RAWD and very light FR cars on Michelin PS2 street tyres, Googyear SCF1 Street tyres, Kuhmo semi-slick tyres and Avon race tyres - and pretty much to a T GT does mimick the grip levels and above 120 things dont really get slippery and scary - unless you mean that when they get slippery it get's scary - cause yes in that case you are SPOT on .

If you dont drive like a hamfisted orangutan and use smooth inputs you can actually coax amazing levels of grip from street tyres.

If you mash the gas, stomp the brake and wrench the wheel then yes - you willslip and slide and think the tyres suck (in real life) but just as smoothness rewards in-game inputs, so does real life.

I think the "comfort tyres" behave like "good" street tyres (not junk superslip no grip Wlmart brand) and the "sports tyres" represent the Michelin PS2's POirelli P-Zero's and Kuhmos of the tyre world.

The 'racing tyres' then represent of course racing slick soft stick your thumbnail and leave a dent tyres.

 

[warpspeed2slow]

I think you may be exaggerating a little. I think most people are. I have some in car video of some of my on-track experiences I have had (I will resist posting them as they may be construed as off-topic) with very high HP FR and RAWD and very light FR cars on Michelin PS2 street tyres, Googyear SCF1 Street tyres, Kuhmo semi-slick tyres and Avon race tyres - and pretty much to a T GT does mimick the grip levels.

If you dont drive like a hamfisted orangutan and use smooth inputs you can actually coax amazing levels of grip from street tyres.

If you mash the gas, stomp the brake and wrench the wheel then yes - you willslip and slide and think the tyres suck (in real life) but just as smoothness rewards in-game inputs, so does real life.

I think the "comfort tyres" behave like "good" street tyres (not junk superslip no grip Wlmart brand) and the "sports tyres" represent the Michelin PS2's POirelli P-Zero's and Kuhmos of the tyre world.

The 'racing tyres' then represent of course racing slick soft stick your thumbnail and leave a dent tyres.

If you are smooth in real life than yes, I agree but it takes practice to be smooth. If you are already smooth and bring that to GT5 it will work but the grip levels to me still seem a little safe. If your not smooth you will be awful on a track in real life but can win races and put up decent times on supposedly comparable tires in GT5.

 

[Zer0]

I watched the video again and it proves my point, maybe your point as well if your agreeing with me. The tires in GT5 in the bottom video are comfort-softs, not the tires that GT5 would say compares to the tires in the compared actual race video.

Comfort soft = high performance street legal

In the last vid he use this:
http://www.falkentire.com/Tires/Azenis-RT-615K-14

Anyway at times tire grip with certain cars end more realistic selecting a lesser grade but is just a matter of comparing RL times, not really a problem and yes racing soft tires always have been like a grip driving aid.

 

[YellowG1]

In my experience, at least as between comfort tires/sports tires/drag radials, GT5's tire modeling is pretty accurate.

 

[transam1998]

The grip in GT is definitely off, just glance at the G-meter next time you are in a corner with your bone stock honda civic and note the 1.5 to 2 g grip.

Factory cars on street tires just don't pull those numbers, especially not some random economy car.

I will probably get flamed for this but this is just my opinion. I feel that the grip the racing tires offer have no equal in real racing.

My own small track experience makes me cringe anytime I try a tire that has more grip than Sports-Soft in GT5. My feeling is that's the tire that relates to soft slicks but I allow that it could actually be weight deficiencies in the handling model that makes it seem that way.

 

[obreeezzzzy]

I'll be honest, the only racing series I follow enough to know what lap times, grip levels, setups, etc should be like is NASCAR, so I'll use that as my benchmark. At Indy I did a little testing today. First I pulled up on youtube JPM's pole winning run from this August. He ran a 49.37, winning the pole handily by over a tenth.

Now I had already played enough to know the Racing - Hard tires would give me a lap wayy faster than this, so I went to Sports - Soft to see how those matched up. Within about 10 minutes of shakedown, I was able to best this mark, and with some setup tweaking I was down into the 48.80s. Mind you this lap was done without measures such as higher air pressure and grille tape that would be used in real life for qualifying trim.

I'll probably fool around a little more tomorrow, but something that would put me in the mid 50 second bracket without draft would probably be realistic for those cars grip wise, based on the limited setup adjustments we're given (no cross weight, rear end yaw, etc)

 

[Zer0]

The grip in GT is definitely off, just glance at the G-meter next time you are in a corner with your bone stock honda civic and note the 1.5 to 2 g grip.

Factory cars on street tires just don't pull those numbers, especially not some random economy car.

GT cars come stock with Sport hard tires, your civic should have comfort medium or even hard tires in RL. Change them and try again.