Took the Lancer to local road track, outran S2000

[MustangSVT]

I'm going to be changing my car soon, probably sometime in July.

A bit of history, I currently have a VW Jetta GL from '98, it's got a 2.0L inline-4 engine. It's been OK in many regards so far, but it's overall a very bad car. I've had problems with it regarding starting in the cold (I live in Alberta, Canada, we have very cold winters here). During the first winter when I bought it, I had no problems during temperatures of -30C and such and I didn't even have to plug the car in (has a car block heater). Last winter tho, I had so many problems, it just wouldn't start when it was really cold outside and also if it's very wet, it has problems starting. I had one incident during last summer when this super heavy rain hit and my car actually shut down on me while I was driving it, and four instances during the winter when I couldn't get my car to start at all no matter what. One of those times it was actually at school and I had to get my battery boosted from someone.

After taking the car to 2 mechanics, neither of them were able to fix this problem of engine starting problem in the cold/heavy wet, so I'm abandoning this car for good.

Now, I'm looking to buy a brand new car as I don't want to go through the troubles of a used car again. I just want to lease something for 3 years then in 3 years I'll probably have even more money available, I'll just get a better car and so on.

Ok now since I'm in Canada, prices of cars from America don't count, prices in Canada are much much worse on new cars and used cars. For example, an Impreza STi starts at $33,000 USD in states from what I know, in Canada it starts from $49,000 CAD which is about the equivalent of ~$43-44,000 USD nowadays. Point being, nice cars cost a lot of money here.

I'm looking at leasing a brand new Mustang V6. Ok now I'm not the biggest fan of the Mustang and it's not my favorite car (contrary to my name..), but it seems to be the only sports car that can be had for under $30,000 CAD brand new, that is for the V6 only. The V8 is more expensive. Now I haven't looked into lease options on them, it's possible the V8 isn't that much more due to value when lease ends, but gas usage would be a problem, I don't really want something that just eats gas.

As for other cars, I am also looking at leasing a Mazda 3 sedan or possibly a Honda Civic 2dr coupe.

What do you guys think my other options would be? I would really love to have a sports car, I'm going to look if I can actually get a Mustang V6, it's possible it might be too much after options and that insurance would kill me (since I am 19 and sports cars don't make for good insurance..).

Now do remember that "nice" cars like Mazdaspeed 3 or Civic Si are too expensive for me, I can't afford something like that.

I'm just looking for some advice, maybe someone can mention one or two cars, I'm pretty knowledgeable of cars myself in terms of specs only, but I don't really know much in terms of real value and what car would be suited for me. Thanks in advance.

Oh and lastly, no Volkswagens at all. I do not want to deal with that car maker ever again in my life.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

You should be like all of the other ricers out there and get a Honda Civic, CR-X, or Accord. These three cars are very reliable and they aren't to expensive... They offer decent gas mileage. But try not to use the stock muffler and stick a 4 inch exhaust tip, ugly wing, etc... Like all the other people. That makes you look poor, and wierd. I think you should buy those, since those are my dream cars at the moment.

 

[Gonz013]

I've got a Mazda 3 - very nice car, I highly reccomend it.

 

[Joey D]

You should be like all of the other ricers out there and get a Honda Civic, CR-X, or Accord. These three cars are very reliable and they aren't to expensive... They offer decent gas mileage. But try not to use the stock muffler and stick a 4 inch exhaust tip, ugly wing, etc... Like all the other people. That makes you look poor, and wierd. I think you should buy those, since those are my dream cars at the moment.

For your sake I would suggest that you please refrain from making post like this, MustangSVT asked an honest question and is looking for the community for some help.

Anyways how about a Nissan Sentra SE-R? According to the Canadian Nissan website you can get the Spec-V for a start price of about $24k. I have not drive one yet but everything I've read makes them seem like pretty good cars.

Also regular Imprezas seem to be under the $30k mark so why not look into it? AWD and a sporty car would make it both fun in the winter and the summer months.

If you live in Alberta I would not suggest a Mustang since they aren't great cars in the snow. I have a buddy that has an 05 and even with snow tires he has one hell of a time when there is just the smallest amount of snow on the ground. The V6's aren't bad, but considering your location you might be better off with an AWD or FWD vehicle. You also might want to look into an engine block heater so that you don't run into issues of the car not wanting to start in cold weather. My Blazer does NOT have one and it's a bastard to get started in some of the colder months here in Michigan.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

What did I do wrong? And try not to flame me to the EXTREME. Please. Just let me know what I did wrong.

 

[Boz Mon]

What did I do wrong?

It was the ricer comment. But anyway, I would agree with the Accord comment just not the ricer part. Accords are nice you could probably find a good 4 cyl model in your price range. Also, dont forget about the Scion models. I'm not a fan of them but its an option.

 

[YSSMAN]

As a fellow VW owner, I have to apologize for the way your car is acting. My '96 (with the same 2.0L 8V) has many of the same problems even in the mild (by comparison) winters of Michigan. Really wet and really cold doesn't bode well for the car, and I don't know why...

...Anyway, I'd care to suggest a different car than the Mustang in question. Personally speaking, if you're looking into Ford products, I'd highly suggest the Ford Fusion over the Mustang, given that the car is probably built better, should move with ease in the snow, and overall has a good list of options to make it a nice choice... Plus, AWD is available on some models...

 

[MustangSVT]

Anyways how about a Nissan Sentra SE-R? According to the Canadian Nissan website you can get the Spec-V for a start price of about $24k. I have not drive one yet but everything I've read makes them seem like pretty good cars.

Also regular Imprezas seem to be under the $30k mark so why not look into it? AWD and a sporty car would make it both fun in the winter and the summer months.

If you live in Alberta I would not suggest a Mustang since they aren't great cars in the snow. I have a buddy that has an 05 and even with snow tires he has one hell of a time when there is just the smallest amount of snow on the ground. The V6's aren't bad, but considering your location you might be better off with an AWD or FWD vehicle. You also might want to look into an engine block heater so that you don't run into issues of the car not wanting to start in cold weather. My Blazer does NOT have one and it's a bastard to get started in some of the colder months here in Michigan.

I will look at the Nissan. As for the Impreza, I really don't like its looks at all (the new one anyway). Also, as far as I know, all cars here come with a block heater since we get a 6 months winter here. I haven't heard of a car without one over here. Even my '98 Jetta has one.

 

[MustangSVT]

As a fellow VW owner, I have to apologize for the way your car is acting. My '96 (with the same 2.0L 8V) has many of the same problems even in the mild (by comparison) winters of Michigan. Really wet and really cold doesn't bode well for the car, and I don't know why...

...Anyway, I'd care to suggest a different car than the Mustang in question. Personally speaking, if you're looking into Ford products, I'd highly suggest the Ford Fusion over the Mustang, given that the car is probably built better, should move with ease in the snow, and overall has a good list of options to make it a nice choice... Plus, AWD is available on some models...

My problem is the winters over here are always cold, we always have three or four sequences where it's under -30C. My dad's car for example which is a Ford Escape never has problems starting even if it's not plugged in. Albeit, it's a car from 2004 and he bought it new. That's why I must get rid of my current car sometime soon.

 

[MustangSVT]

I've found these two at a local Ford dealer. What do you guys think of these two deals:

- Ford Mustang 2006
- 1 year used
- 20,000kms I think
- V6 and possibly a few options here and there, didn't look too closely
- $26,000cad, which is about $24,000 US I think

- Ford Mustang 2007
- brand new
- V8 and several options, hood scoop, leather seats, heated seats, and bunch of other stuff I can't recall right now
- $36,000cad, which is about $33,000+ US

Also looking at a brand new Mitsubishi Lancer or a brand new Pontiac G6 GT. I have not looked at the prices of local dealers though. Lancer seems to cost $21,000/$23,000cad (on their website), depending which model (ES or LS, something like that). Haven't looked into the Pontiac.

I am also strongly looking into buying a used car from ebay from States, since if I fly down to get the car, I can drive it back into Canada and not pay any tax/duty on it. I'm looking at these cars:

- BMW 3-series 2001 or newer
- Subaru Impreza WRX (or STi) from 2004
- Mercedes C-class 2002 or newer

Let me know what you guys think. I've looked at the Nissan Sentra that one of you recommended. Honestly, I think it's a very ugly car. I'm not looking to buy the greatest car ever, but even my crap Jetta is nicer looking than the new Sentra, that's my opinion anyway.

Oh and I forgot to mention the Mazda 3, still looking at that as a possibility. I will visit a few dealers soon, hopefully test drive maybe that Mustang, a Mazda 3 and a Lancer if I can.

 

[Kylehnat]

I am also strongly looking into buying a used car from ebay from States, since if I fly down to get the car, I can drive it back into Canada and not pay any tax/duty on it.

Good luck with that.

Are you paying for this car? If so, I'd recommend scooting your budget down a bit. It's tempting to blow a large chunk of your income on a car (because you "can" afford it), but it's not at all wise. No matter what you drive, insurance will be a bugger--50% of your monthly payment is a conservative estimate. Also, gas is not the cheapest these days. If you buy a thirsty, premium-only car, your gas bill will rival your payments.

Also be sure to look into the future. If you can afford the payments now, will you be able to in 3 or 4 years? Are you willing to pay that monthly amount for 4 or 5 years? $600 seems like an okay amount until you think about paying it for 60 consecutive months.

Maintenance? A used BMW is cheaper than it used to be, but the cost to fix it isn't. If a drivetrain component goes out, you'll still be digging deep.

Just some things to think about...

 

[MustangSVT]

The money is not a concern. And no I'm not paying for the car. Technically I could probably get a Ferrari, but then that wouldn't be practical and my family wouldn't have money to spend on food.

As for the ebay thing, my dad has a good friend who has bought about 6 or 7 cars from ebay and gotten good deals on them. I will have a talk with him and see what he thinks. It's very probable I will drop the whole idea since it's a risk that the used car I get is not in good condition, or something like that, but I'll see what my dad's friend has to say about it. More on that later.

 

[1X83Z]

The money is not a concern. And no I'm not paying for the car.

Consider financing, rather than leasing.


--Economics major

 

[MustangSVT]

Consider financing, rather than leasing.


--Economics major

I am considering both. Mainly I am looking at whether I still want to have the car after 3 years (usually how long a lease lasts). I'll probably buy the car (so financing), will have to keep thinking on that one. Thanks for your advice, all comments are appreciated. 👍

 

[Slicks]

I've found these two at a local Ford dealer. What do you guys think of these two deals:

- Ford Mustang 2007
- brand new
- V8 and several options, hood scoop, leather seats, heated seats, and bunch of other stuff I can't recall right now
- $36,000cad, which is about $33,000+ US

Go kick your dealer in the ass.

I was at a dealership over the weekend and 'built' an 07 Mustang GT, with leather but not too many other options, for $32,xxx plus destination charges.

 

[Kylehnat]

As for the ebay thing, my dad has a good friend who has bought about 6 or 7 cars from ebay and gotten good deals on them.

If you buy an American car, you'll get nailed for the tax and duty when you license it in Alberta (unless your provincial government is incredibly stupid). People in Washington thought they were outsmarting the government by purchasing cars in Oregon (no excise/sales tax there), only to cough up $3000 for their Washington plates when they registered (those normally cost $30).

Consider financing, rather than leasing.

--Economics major

You don't need to study economics to know that leasing a vehicle is a waste of money, just like renting an apartment.

 

[MustangSVT]

If you buy an American car, you'll get nailed for the tax and duty when you license it in Alberta (unless your provincial government is incredibly stupid). People in Washington thought they were outsmarting the government by purchasing cars in Oregon (no excise/sales tax there), only to cough up $3000 for their Washington plates when they registered (those normally cost $30).

I don't think so. I personally know someone who has bought at least 6 or 7 cars from states and brought them to alberta and if they did pay some tax, it was much much less than $3000.

You also have to consider the price difference between the markets. A 2004 Impreza STi would cost you about $32,000-$36,000cad or more where I live. On ebay, you can get one with $21,000-$23,000cad. That's a $10,000 difference. That BMW 3-series and Merc C-Class I was talking about, also about a $10,000 difference. $13,000-$15,000 in states, $23,000-$25,000 where I live.

Go kick your dealer in the ass.

I was at a dealership over the weekend and 'built' an 07 Mustang GT, with leather but not too many other options, for $32,xxx plus destination charges.

Isn't the destination charge about $1200 or something? This one had about $4000 worth of options and was $36,100 including tax and all charges. It's probably not the best price possible, but this is Calgary after all. It's possible that prices are artifically more since everyone here is full of money.

 

[1X83Z]

I am considering both. Mainly I am looking at whether I still want to have the car after 3 years (usually how long a lease lasts).

You know, you could also finance the car for a three-year term and just simply sell it at the end of the term. This would give you a strong down payment for your next (financed) vehicle if you should decide to switch cars - or you would own the car outright if you decide to stay. To me, leasing really only makes sense in a select few circumstances - mainly if you both do not have the means to get the vehicle you want and also want to switch cars frequently. It seems to me you don't fit either of the categories, and to make leasing work you really have to fit both.

You don't need to study economics to know that leasing a vehicle is a waste of money, just like renting an apartment.

But certainly neither is a waste since in both cases you are receiving something for your money!

 

[///M-Spec]

You don't need to study economics to know that leasing a vehicle is a waste of money, just like renting an apartment.

The difference between renting vs owning a home/condo/apartment is different than leasing vs. financing a vehicle. In the vast majority of cases, a vehicle looses value over time. Whereas in all but the rarest of cases, a home gains value over time.

So in the case of a home, your payments go into building equity in an asset that appreciates (always a good thing). In the case of a car, your payments go into building equity into an asset that in the vast majority of cases depreciates (which you should avoid whenever possible).

I'm not making a case that financing a car is not a good way to go. In most ways, it is. I'm just pointing out the rent analogy isn't precise.


M

 

[Duke]

To me, leasing really only makes sense in a select few circumstances - mainly if you both do not have the means to get the vehicle you want

This is the worst possible reason to lease, yet it's the one most widely used.

...and also want to switch cars frequently.

This makes sense given a strong desire to switch cars frequently, but in the long run, doesn't make that much sense objectively. But, if you acknowledge that you're going to be a car slut, you have two sensible options within that lifestyle: buy cars you can afford to purchase outright for cash and flip them before they depreciate too much, or lease cars and effectively be renting the depreciation.

So in the case of a home, your payments go into building equity in an asset that appreciates (always a good thing). In the case of a car, your payments go into building equity into an asset that in the vast majority of cases depreciates (which you should avoid whenever possible).

The economy of financing/owning a depreciating asset makes the best sense IF the asset (your car) will continue to efficiently serve its function after it has depreciated more or less fully. In other words, if you plan to drive it for a while after you've paid it off. The previous 'owner' of my 325i effectively paid for its major depreciation (and a handsome profit for BMW) with his 3-year lease, after which he turned it in and received no equity value (though he still needs a car). I bought the car, and it will depreciate further while I am paying for it. BUT, once my 3-year payment term is over, I'll own outright a 6-year-old car with around 60,000 miles on it. This car will easily serve me - payment-free - for another 3 years and 30,000 more miles. So yes, the depreciation cost me money outright. But once I own the (still useful) car, it will pay me back.

I'm not making a case that financing a car is not a good way to go. In most ways, it is. I'm just pointing out the rent analogy isn't precise.

Agreed. And, in some circumstances, leasing makes excellent sense, such as if you can charge the car to a business expense and write the lease payment off of your taxes.

 

[///M-Spec]

The economy of financing/owning a depreciating asset makes the best sense IF the asset (your car) will continue to efficiently serve its function after it has depreciated more or less fully. In other words, if you plan to drive it for a while after you've paid it off.

Agreed. Buying a brand new car every 3 years and trading it in for another brand new car is an expensive indulgence. Driving a car 'til the wheels fall off' is sensible in many ways.

The previous 'owner' of my 325i effectively paid for its major depreciation (and a handsome profit for BMW) with his 3-year lease, after which he turned it in and received no equity value (though he still needs a car). I bought the car, and it will depreciate further while I am paying for it. BUT, once my 3-year payment term is over, I'll own outright a 6-year-old car with around 60,000 miles on it. This car will easily serve me - payment-free - for another 3 years and 30,000 more miles. So yes, the depreciation cost me money outright. But once I own the (still useful) car, it will pay me back.

That's all true and I wouldn't argue against doing it this way.

But to be fair to the guy leasing, I think I should say that you and he are getting different ownership experiences. I know that sounds odd given we're talking about the same car, but there is a difference between a brand new BMW 325 with 6 miles on the clock and a 3 year old one with 30 something ish.

Also, again, not take a position here, but mostly to play Devil's Advocate, he probably went on to lease another car. Maybe he's got a 2006 325i or 2006 G35 and is enjoying that car right now. So over 6 years, while you are saving more money than he is, he is also getting a different experience than you are.

What makes sense really depends on what your priorities are. If extravagance is always a bad thing, then we should all be driving 10 year old Corollas (of course, this would actually make the cost of all cars to skyrocket until no one could afford them, but that's beside the point)

Finally, I think a lot of people don't know this or understand this about leasing-- is that a lot of the time, the manufacturer is subsidizing the terms. One of the ways they do this is to set the car for an unrealistically high residual --what they say the car will be worth at the end of the term. If this number is far above true market value, you are actually 'ahead' at the end.

While this might sound odd, given the financing arm risks losses, it happens more often than you might think because it sometimes still makes sense for them to take a hit on the financing side in order to keep production at a high volume. I guarantee you the original residual on your 325 were pretty stellar and allowed for a 'modest' lease payment. The bottom line is the monthly payment can be lowered to eye-poppingly low amounts, depending on how bad the manf. wants to move them.


M

 

[Duke]

But to be fair to the guy leasing, I think I should say that you and he are getting different ownership experiences... So over 6 years, while you are saving more money than he is, he is also getting a different experience than you are.

What makes sense really depends on what your priorities are.

Also agreed, which is why I prefaced my comments with this:

But, if you acknowledge that you're going to be a car slut, you have two sensible options within that lifestyle: buy cars you can afford to purchase outright for cash and flip them before they depreciate too much, or lease cars and effectively be renting the depreciation.

 

[1X83Z]

So in the case of a home, your payments go into building equity in an asset that appreciates (always a good thing). In the case of a car, your payments go into building equity into an asset that in the vast majority of cases depreciates (which you should avoid whenever possible).

You're referring to financing here, rather than renting/leasing, right?

This makes sense given a strong desire to switch cars frequently, but in the long run, doesn't make that much sense objectively.

I completely agree and would probably never do it myself, but if you "need" to get a new car every few years, then leasing is probably a better move than financing - leasing has built-in new cars frequently; financing means you have to sell the car yourself and offers no real benefit; in truth you lose in both cases but probably moreso in financing - your gain both ways is simply that new car every few years. No, it makes relatively small objective sense, but the same can be said for the status-conscious minds of the people who do it; if it must be done, then (in my view) leasing is the way to do it.

 

[MustangSVT]

Time to update this thread. I just realized recently that I hadn't posted my new car on here. A little over 2 months ago, I acquired this car:

Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

I've had a very pleasant experience with it so far. The only other modern sedan I've driven for a decent amount of time was a Mercedes C230 that I drove over a year ago for about 1 week, and I thought that car was awesome. I like this Mitsubishi even more than I liked that Mercedes. It has essentially everything I was looking for:

- good comfort inside
- really good looks (personal opinion of course)
- really good handling
- good throttle response
- fast
- buttons on steering wheel for turning on radio, volume control, etc.

The only cons with the car:
- spoiler at the back blocks part of what you see in rear view mirror
- sport suspension means you feel every bump in the road, but this is something I was willing to compromise for the good handling

Yea it's only got 150 horsepower and 4 cylinder, so it's not the fastest car on the road, but it's fast enough to get you into trouble.

 

[TopHat]

Very nice. 👍 Good luck!

 

[Joey D]

Nice 👍

 

[Philly]

There's one of those that lives across the street from my dorm. I must say that it looks like a pretty sweet car. Good purchase.👍

Any plans for mods in the near future?

 

[Aremburgkerve]

Very nice car, and it looks amazing in the white! 👍

 

[Sage]

Wonderful car. 👍 If I didn’t have my Mazda 3 right now, I would be seriously looking at a Lancer GTS.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Nice 👍 It's a good looker aswell.