Top Motoring Gear

[Kent]

"Top Gear"- Journalistic reviews usually followed by Hotlap tests.
"Best Motoring"- Racer impressions and race battles.
"Fifth Gear"- Journalist and racer reviews, Hotlap ghost battle comparisons.

Those shows are the inspirations for this thread...
Use any or all of the cars below under the conditions listed and then compare them, review them, and of course- race them.

The Conditions
Arcade Mode
N3 Tires
0% HP
-10% KG

The Track
Motegi East Short Course

The Car List

• Aston Martin DB9 '03
• Audi RS6 '02
• BMW M3 CSL '03
• BMW M5 '05
• Chevy Corvette Z06 '00
• Dodge Viper SRT 10 '03
• Ford GT '05
• FPV F6 Typhoon '04
• Honda NSX-R '02
• Lotus Elise 111R '04
• Lotus Esprit V8 '02
• Mazda RX7 Spirit R Type A '02
• Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG '02
• Mitusbishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR '04
• Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 (any production model)
• Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3 '02
• RUF RGT '00
• Saleen S7 '02
• Subaru Impreza WRX STi Spc. C '04
• TVR T350C '03

The Records

• 1'30.510 RUF RGT
• 1'31.165 Aston Martin DB9 '03
• 1'31.305 Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG '02
• 1'31.412 BMW M3 CSL '03
• 1'31.787 TVR T350C '03
• 1'31.871 Honda NSX-R '02
• 1'32.949 Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 V-spec II Nur '02
• 1'33.632 Mazda RX7 Spirit R Type A '02
• 1'34.145 Subaru Impreza WRX STi Spc. C '04
• 1'34.660 Lotus Elise 111R '04

Note: Times listed are for comparison purposes only.
This is not a race and lap times posted will not be listed with their driver's names, for that matter, the times listed are not my lap times.

 

[slo-car]

Very cool idea. Definitely off to give it a shot. Will post my findings.

 

[Kent]

Made an update...
Posted times for all of the cars except three, two of which will certainly make it into the top half of the list.

That said, I'm sure the Skyline can go faster and I'm sure the Evo can run with the Impreza... The 111R impressed me (going under 1'35) and the heavy weights at the top can easily be toppled by the RGT. 👍

Finally, if there are any suggestions for changing the line-up feel free to mention it...I'm considering a "Any GT-R R34" instead of the Nur edition but that's not a sure thing. So until next time...
-

 

[steven]

nice one. after 2 laps in each car i got:

db9 1.35.523
csl 1.34.608 (alltime favvie car in the game and it shows in the laptime)
vette 1.34.772
nsx 1.35.339
elise 1.38.862 (mr+lightweight=impossible to drive for me)
rx7 1.38.132 (best ride of them all)
merc X (far too heavy, no braking and hopelessly understeered)
evo 1.37.989
rgt X (never got to the finish without any offs )

other ones to follow

 

[Thirdeye]

* Aston Martin DB9 '03 - 1'33.998
* BMW M3 CSL '03 - 1'32.175
* Chevy Corvette Z06 '00 - 1'34.269
* Mazda RX7 Spirit R Type A '02 - 1'35.959

If I get more time I'll run the rest. I know that most of those times I can probably get a second or two lower if I run a few more laps.

 

[FLK]

RUF RGT - 1'30.510

What a pig to stop had to spend several laps getting my braking points right but I think high 1'29s, even 1'28s are achievable.

 

[Kent]

Ok, I've been playing with this idea for a while.
I'm not interested in making this a race... I'm not looking to write a full race report. Rather, I'm looking to create something like a general GT4 discussion focused on 21st century production cars in arcade mode running on N3 tires.
This sort of racing has kept me playing GT4 over the last few weeks when I had lost my desire to play GT4 for months just before.

So, under these conditions who do the cars handle? How do the cars compare to each other?

My experience with this so far has been simple... Very little wheel spin, plenty of oversteer, lots of suprises, and a great refresher on how diverse the driving dynamics are in GT4's street cars.

I hope you all enjoy comparing the cars (even if you're just looking to see the differences in various skylines). Also, if you post a time faster than any of the times listed on the board, I will show your time as to properly represent what the car is capable of doing.

With all that said, please take part and enjoy a discussion regarding GT4's benchmark streetcars.
Btw, feel free to suggest cars not listed as possible candidates for the next update. 👍

 

[slo-car]

1'32.109 BMW M5 '05

Beautifully balanced car all around. The brakes are fantastic and the handling is astonishing for such a large car. However, this car doesn't really allow for any trail braking into corners; most attempts end in a missed apex or under steering off the track. The good thing however is, that the understeer can be very easily taken away with just a little more gas ... this car is so wheelspin happy under power that on a couple of 2nd gear corners, I found it faster to leave the car in 3rd gear to reduce the wheelspin. However, even when it does let go ... a lot ... it's very easy to catch. It's very rewarding coming out of the s-bend almost completely sideways and not having to struggle catching the slide. In my modest opinion, this car easily beats out many sports cars, be it on pure speed, driving experience or both.

 

[Kent]

1'32.109 BMW M5 '05

Beautifully balanced car all around. The brakes are fantastic and the handling is astonishing for such a large car. However, this car doesn't really allow for any trail braking into corners; most attempts end in a missed apex or under steering off the track. The good thing however is, that the understeer can be very easily taken away with just a little more gas ... this car is so wheelspin happy under power that on a couple of 2nd gear corners, I found it faster to leave the car in 3rd gear to reduce the wheelspin. However, even when it does let go ... a lot ... it's very easy to catch. It's very rewarding coming out of the s-bend almost completely sideways and not having to struggle catching the slide. In my modest opinion, this car easily beats out many sports cars, be it on pure speed, driving experience or both.

👍 +rep
Just the kind of commentary and effort I was looking to get back from this thread.

What I would suggest... Do atleast two cars per session (keep the sessions short if needed). What really got me excited about this selection of cars was running the Sti, Evo, and 111R.
The 111R kept up but did it in a way that shocked me after having shaved down those 4wd times.

 

[slo-car]

👍 +rep
Just the kind of commentary and effort I was looking to get back from this thread.

What I would suggest... Do atleast two cars per session (keep the sessions short if needed). What really got me excited about this selection of cars was running the Sti, Evo, and 111R.
The 111R kept up but did it in a way that shocked me after having shaved down those 4wd times.

I will do this starting tomorrow ... or maybe even now since I have a little time.

edit: sorry it took me so long to even get to this ... too busy with work and classes.

 

[slo-car]

The American Muscle

1'34.610 Chevrolet Corvette Z06

This might not be the fastest way around a track, but it is loads of fun. This car loves to slide; hard on the brakes, grab 2nd, turn in, gas ... the perfect example of steering the car with the throttle. It requires so little steering input, it caught me by surprise a few times; It starts to rotate on the throttle and I'm still steering in ... once you get used to that kind of response, it is a blast though. I could have probably done a faster lap, but I just did not care ... I found myself doing laps just to see this thing drift.


Ford GT '05

I wanted to love this thing. It's beautiful, it looks amazing, it sounds amazing ... you rev the engine and you can almost hear it shouting "I'm going to destroy this track", but sadly, it doesn't. Like I said, I wanted to love it; I loved the original GT40 ... it is a race car, but compared to the GT, for me, it was fantastically easy to drive. But I hated the GT, and here is why:

The gearbox! Yes, it is a supercar, yes we want it to have a huge top speed ... but why do I need 1st gear to take me to 70mph? Why does 2nd need to take me over a 100? Honestly, it is as if a 3rd grader threw some numbers at the manufacturing department and they went at creating the gears. As a result of this gear nonsense, I found myself struggling to find a gear. Every low speed corner requires 1st gear ... except when you stick it in 1st at higher revs, the 550hp + the gearing torque multiplication produces torque so great, you just end up spinning the wheels. You pick 2nd, then there is no power.

Not that any of that matters though because the car goes so fast on the straights, and it's brakes are so weak, that they don't really stop it. You brake, and brake some more, and brake even harder, and then you find yourself emulating a Subaru Impreza at a rally stage.

As a result, my best lap time was quite poor ... lets just say I wanted to compare it to the Corvette, but the Corvette was faster. By a lot.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

The Supercar Showdown

I decided to try this deal out, and seeing that I could try out such exotic rides as the Ford GT, Saleen S7 and Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3, it was a no-brainer.

I began with the Ford GT ´05, with blue basecoat and white stripes, just like the Shelby Cobra. Nice looking indeed, but looks is not everything. Can the handling match its looks?

I drove the car 10 laps around the selected course - Twin Ring Motegi East Short Course - and I was all smiles when I was finished! It handles beautifully, almost like a racecar, the only downside being the brakes. Considering the very highs speeds it reaches, the brakingdistances are not a huge surprise though, but it could be better. When I saw my best laptime of 1´28.853, I couldn´t help thinking what it could´ve been if I hadn´t spent so much time braking!
It´s amazing torque means it simply takes of like a rocket from the slower turns, though, so it´s probably nip and tuc anyway.

In short; I love this car!

Next up was a yellow Saleen S7, wich has an even racier approach to its looks than the Ford GT, and looks marvellous.

Ten laps later, I even started to doubt its looks.

This car is very very fast, but very, very hard to handle. All mistakes are punished with 100mph spins, and that kind of gets old after a while...
It oversteers horribly, except at apex, wich it actually gets correct pretty much all the time.
It´s in no way as easy to control as the Ford GT, but it does have better brakes.
Since you work much harder in this car, you think you´re fast, but I was dissapointed when I saw my best lap: 1´29.788. Slower than the GT that is.

In short; Not worth the effort.

Last but not least at all, I had the Zonda. Looking at it is not that pleasent, but the car does have a strange appeal to it. I wish I had one in red, instead of the silver one in front of me.

So how does a beast like this run? Very smooth it seems, and fast at that! The Pagani Zonda C12S with the 7.3 litre Mercedes engine is just outragously quick, in all ways! And it feels pretty nimble aswell, considering it´s size.
It suffers a bit from wheelspin, but that can easily be taken care of with a less heavy right foot.

This car is so fast though, that you tend to be a tad too late on the brakes. This only shows how extremely well it handles high speed though, since you even misjudge your speed at cornerapproach.

The Zonda is way better than the Saleen, but not as easy to control as the Ford GT, but on the other hand - compared to the GT - the emotional reward when you get things spot on, is larger!

For short; 1`28.401!

When the dust had settled, and I had had a think about things, I must say the Pagani would be my serious choice on the track, and the Ford would be my funny-playing-around-on-the-racetrack-car.
The Saleen? I´d convert it to a S7R and go racing for real!

 

[Leonidae]

This sounds like something that Jeremy Clarkson would come up with.. I'll see if I can pinch time for this.

 

[Kurei]

This doesn't sound too bad, i should have a few reviews up eventually, just got to remember the N3's, -10% weight, and to run at Motegi East Short Course (i forget what courses to use easily it seems )

First will probably be the Ford GT

 

[GTveteran]

Britain vs Germany 1 lap shoot-out.

Aston Martin DB9 against Mercedes Benz SL55AMG

This was a one lap per car comparison of the cars from arguably each countries most prestigous manufacturers. With both offering big heavy GT cars I decided to test them side by side.

With only one lap each I would have to get used to, evaluate and push the cars simultaneously. A problem? I thought so until I drove the cars. Both are the kind of cars you get a feel for straight away as they are similar and yet so different.

Starting with the DB9. It is a big heavy lump of British engineering at its finest, its 6.0 V12 producing 449 bhp and weighing in at 1710 kg you almost physically have to wrestle this car around the track. But this makes for a rewarding driving experience. For such a heavy car this one offers a lot of grip through corners and braking feels positive. However it does overload the tyres quite easily under braking. I achieved a time of 1'34.582 in the DB9.

Finishing with the SL55 The first thing you notice is that it feels a lot sharper and is therefore a lot easier to drive than the DB9. Producing 492 bhp from its supercharged 5.5 V8, but weighing in at 1955 kg it ends up at about the same performance as the Aston. This car however felt slightly worse off under braking than the Aston but was just about the same. Also Id choose the sound of a V8 over a V12 any day but after this test I think Ill stick with the DB9. Its just a far more rewarding drive. The time I got in the SL was 1'34.097.

PS. I forgot to remove the weight.

 

[Kent]

So have you guys felt like this type of setup brings out the characteristics of the cars?
I've felt like the N3 tires offer excellent grip while still allowing you to break traction for great drifting or just plain use-able power oversteer (such as what you find in the R34). It just feels to me like these N3 tires provide the most rewarding driving experience. Combined with the loss of weight, I'd say these tires are giving me the most fun I've had with GT4 in a long time.

Yesterday I drove the Saleen and Zonda... Both scored great times but the Zonda was quicker through the twisties. Eventually both lapped at about 1'27.5.

 

[KiwiBoy]

I don't understand why weight has to be reduce by 10%, shouldn't it be increased by 10% to stimulate driver weight?

 

[Kent]

I don't why weight has to be reduce by 10%, shouldn't it be increased by 10% to stimulate driver weight?

Why would I do that?
I'm not trying to recreate real world lap times... I suggested this setup because it is really fun. 👍
Further, any time I'm doing something in arcade mode with the general public I always use -10% just in case some losser wants to cheat.
Fact is, this event isn't really about lap times and so it wouldn't be much of a problem to stick with stock cars. However, avoiding cheats wasn't the prime motivation... Like I said earlier, the setup in this event is really just to make it fun. 👍
Less weight makes braking easier, helps the big cars keep their handling in check, and brings out the advantages of being lightweight (for low power cars like the elise).

I've enjoyed the setup so far. However, if you really think the weight should be at +10% then feel free to elaborate and maybe we can get some +10% discussion going. 👍

 

[GTveteran]

I don't why weight has to be reduce by 10%, shouldn't it be increased by 10% to stimulate driver weight?

This wouldn't work anyway, you'd have nearly 200 extra kilos in the SL which I believe is the heaviest car and only 70-80 in the Elise. Whereas you'd want about this in every car.

I'm not opposed to removing the weight but I personally leave it standard. It's down to the individual though isn't it.

 

[Leonidae]

but isn't 200kg rather close to the typical M-B owners weight? they're usually rather fat businessmen etc..

 

[GTveteran]

lol, could be but I'm assuming the weight for the average person is between 70 and 80 kilos.

 

[Kent]

💡
This works just as well with any weight set on the car. The idea of this thread was just to get people driving again (those of us who don't have a PS3 atleast ). I had great fun with the cars listed (originally) and I continue to try new cars when I have the time (although I'm really working on getting the Elise down past the Impreza).
Bottom line: If you want to run with any weight, you are more than welcome to do so and still take part in the discussion on these cars. 👍

That said... I've found this setup to be a great indicator of the differences between the Impreza and Evo. I'm sure the 8MR can run like the Spc.C, I just haven't done it yet. The pwr advantage goes to the Impreza but the turn-in under braking with the Evo is incredible... The throttle understeer of the Impreza is present as well and the Evo only has to match or beat that to gain a total advantage with the handling.
Could that match be about the driver alone or is the N3 -10%kg Spc.C too much for the heavier -10%kg Evo?
With all that in mind... Test the Elise afterward and have some great fun.
Btw, should we add the M.S. Elise? Is that a model year 2000 or later? (if not then I will not add it into the mix).

 

[GTveteran]

The Motorsport Elise was introduced in 1999 and was only available in the racing green. The one on GT3/4 is technically the exige which was released in 2000. So it is up to you if you want to include it. It could be interesting.

 

[Kent]

The Motorsport Elise was introduced in 1999 and was only available in the racing green. The one on GT3/4 is technically the exige which was released in 2000. So it is up to you if you want to include it. It could be interesting.

That's exactly why I was considering it... I just wasn't looking forward to letting a car into this with a year by GT before '00. Of course, just to make it interesting, let's include the MS Elise and see if it can run as quickly as the much more smooth revving 111R. The MS Elise definately carries the exhaust note of a racing model and hearing the difference is great fun.

 

[GTveteran]

Ok then. Also what about the Jaguar XKR-R? That may be a bit too much Britishness though.

 

[GTveteran]

So today I decided to test the German super saloons. The Audi RS6 with its twin turbo 4.2 V8 and the BMW M5 with its 5.0 V10.

First up the Audi. I was hoping this car would do quite well but it has a major problem... Understeer. Sure itll hit the apex of a corner but once its done that it gives up and heads for the gravel. One thing I will say though is that it is planted due to the 4wd but the sheer mass of the car lets it down hugely. A terrible shame.

The M5 on the other hand was a lot of fun to drive. No understeer here it was just typical BMW smoothness. Even the drifts this car is so capable of doing are dealt with smoothly.

The cars achieved lap times of: 1'37.871 for the RS6 and 1'31.002 for the M5. A very large gap very much evident in the handling characteristics of the cars.

 

[Kurei]

Well I finally managed to get online and post my results/findings/comments, so here goes.

The first car I tested from the list, for no real reason was the Ford GT, and the first thing that came to mind was having this car on N3’s, didn’t sound too good, and I was partially right, its not a optimal setup, after rounding the first hairpin onto the long straight I came up to the second corner that was a right hand sweeper, as I passed the second marker on the left I hit the brakes, and all I could hear was squealing, this car took forever to slow down, and that was just the start of the faults I found during the drive.

I go through a few corners, and I notice a lack of traction in the front and unnecessary stiffness throughout the car in multiple situations, its too stiff for a road car if you ask me, in the front at least, I go through the rest of the course, encountering the problems time and time again, and eventually arrive at the long straight again, which is the only place this car shines, with a sense of “giddy-upness” you can only get in an American Muscle, it flies down the straight in no time, but I feel it doesn’t make up for horrible braking potential it has on N3’s once I get to the corner again.

Overall I’d rate this car 6/10, Its nice on straights, but when you have to take corners to get back to the straight, its faults start to show and kinda “bum-out” the drive.

I’ll start with the Aston Martin for my next review and work my way down the list from there for now on.

 

[GTveteran]

Today I decided to join the "Tested The Supercars Club."

Using only the post 2000 production supercars this narrowed the test down to four cars. I also decided to leave the weights standard for this test.

First up the Ford GT. Everyone seems to beeline for this car so I thought I'd see what the fuss was about. To be honest I found nothing special. Sure its not a bad car, its power delivery is nice and smooth, with a bit of speed can handle drifting to a degree and the handling isnt too bad either. But its twitchy at low speed and sometimes this catches you out because it comes from nowhere. I managed a time of 1'28.497.

Next the S7, my personal favourite looking car of the lot. I was expecting this car to be quite similar to the GT but its very different and this is clear from the word go. Its quite an understeery car but has a fair amont of grip. Power delivery is pretty savage though. This managed a time of 1'29.598 but I'm going to test it again as I believe it has more potential than that.

Then the Zonda. And again an immediate difference was clear after driving the American pair. It felt a lot more agile but this quickly turned into overall touchiness. Although very fast there was always a sense that it will leave you like a not quite tame animal. I did manage to keep it tame long enough to get a 1'27.642 out of it though.

And finally the Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren. Being a completely different layout to the other lot this car was always going to be very different. And what a difference. This car inspires confidence once you get to know it. The level of grip is far superior to any of the mid engined cars. This car stayed planted at all times which is both good and bad because if you just happen to run wide in a corner you cant flick out the back end to get the nose in. Instead you had to slow down. I got a time of 1'28.934 with this car.