Toyota Supra (A90)
- Thread starter RocZX
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I still find it a strange looking car. 
Maybe when I see it in real life, this car is going to be my second favourite car. Maybe it will be even better when I test drive this car. From a tax point of view, the 4-L is a much more interesting car than the 3.0-L. And it probably has a manual.
Nothing, so far, can beat the looks of a 911.
Maybe when I see it in real life, this car is going to be my second favourite car. Maybe it will be even better when I test drive this car. From a tax point of view, the 4-L is a much more interesting car than the 3.0-L. And it probably has a manual.
Nothing, so far, can beat the looks of a 911.
CodeRedR51
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Hot Version is still around as far as I know.
- 286
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- topu999
Nice to see that it's a good car. Certainly seems better to me than its competition, although the lack of a manual is disappointing. I hope they make one, but if the auto really is good then it doesn't matter too much.
Has anyone talked about whether the vents are actually usable? I know they're not real vents, but I remember hearing long ago that they were designed to be usable if they were open.
Has anyone talked about whether the vents are actually usable? I know they're not real vents, but I remember hearing long ago that they were designed to be usable if they were open.
- 51,265
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- SpacedustDaddy
Yep, I saw a notification for 2019 over the weekend. Just drivers talking at MAZE circuit. They're still active.
Edit:
The vents can be made functional for cooling and aero.
In the video kikie posted, the car's engineer says the vents can be functional, if owners want to do this. He said it's very involved.
From the video I posted earlier:
Q&A with Tada San
Here's an overview of the conversation we had with Tada-San this morning. There were 5 main points we discussed.
1. The vents all over the car, are they/can they be functional?
Tada-San:
The vents on the production car are blocked off because, on the street, none of them are necessary. However, the placement of every single vent was designed with function in mind (regarding aero and cooling etc) for use in racing. When you remove them, they can be used for downforce and cooling (even the side vents apparently). Some of these things may look unnecessary, but there is purpose behind all of the details on the car.
2. The people of the tuning world are wondering if it’ll have a Toyota ECU or a BMW ECU?
Tada-San:
BMW. I want to make sure it’s open for tuners.
3. Why is the screen high up on the center console, it looks like it interferes with the driver’s view?
Tada-San:
I made sure that the screen doesn’t interfere with the driver’s view, like if you are looking at the fenders to place the car on the road. But I also kept it high enough so that you can see it while driving. But again, it is a compromise with design and function to have it like it is.
4. Why does the Z4 have more horsepower than the Supra?
Tada-San:
I always get this question about numbers. My answer is: Just drive it first.
Oh yeah, like with the 86 Launch?
Tada-San:
Yes.
5. Why did you choose a BMW engine, why didn’t you make your own in-house Inline 6?
Tada-San:
We could have done it, but it would have taken significantly more time. And I didn’t want the car take any longer than it already did.
(Guff Notes: This is likely hinting at the fact that there wasn’t enough time for Tada to develop an engine because he would have missed his window to actually make the car, due to ever-constricting emissions regulations as well as the financial viability of developing a new engine. Or even his time as an engineer at Toyota (he’s technically retired))
Something I wanted to mention, and this is not corroborated by anything from Toyota, Tada-San, GR, or BMW. But, I have been looking into the development story of the Z4 and Supra, from the very first meeting in Q1 2012 til now, and there's one thing that has been racking my brain: The GR Team and Tada-San have been working with BMW since 2012 on this project. The idea to use the BMW inline 6 was present since the nascency of this project's development, and was one of the things they first started working on.
The BMW B58 was first released in 2015. It is a clean-sheet design over the previous N55 with a heavy emphasis on strength and durability compared to the N-series motors. It is part of BMW's modular engine design, so it has plenty in common with the other B-series engines including the diesels and the 4-cylinders, which does allow for more efficient/cost effective design.
Now, I am not saying that Toyota designed the B58, not by any stretch, but considering that we know that GR spent a significant amount of money and time breaking down engine/drivetrain parts and sending them back to Japan for testing and analysis, it makes sense that they were testing and improving parts on the B58 prior to its eventual release in the F30 340i in 2015. Whatever revision of the B58 that we ended up with in the Supra is unlikely to be just an off the shelf BMW unit, considering how much development time Toyota spent on it. In other interviews, Tada-San has specifically stated that there was a significant back and forth with BMW with "thousands of parts" sent back for analysis and development. Things like the chassis components, suspension, etc may account for some of that, but the engine is the one thing with the most question marks in terms of the specific components that lay within.
Anyways, that's just a sidebar, take from that what you will. I am working on researching all the specifics of the development of this car and cataloging it, and this is just one of the things I am working on.
You can put a broomstick in there.
Q&A with Tada San
Here's an overview of the conversation we had with Tada-San this morning. There were 5 main points we discussed.
1. The vents all over the car, are they/can they be functional?
Tada-San:
The vents on the production car are blocked off because, on the street, none of them are necessary. However, the placement of every single vent was designed with function in mind (regarding aero and cooling etc) for use in racing. When you remove them, they can be used for downforce and cooling (even the side vents apparently). Some of these things may look unnecessary, but there is purpose behind all of the details on the car.
2. The people of the tuning world are wondering if it’ll have a Toyota ECU or a BMW ECU?
Tada-San:
BMW. I want to make sure it’s open for tuners.
3. Why is the screen high up on the center console, it looks like it interferes with the driver’s view?
Tada-San:
I made sure that the screen doesn’t interfere with the driver’s view, like if you are looking at the fenders to place the car on the road. But I also kept it high enough so that you can see it while driving. But again, it is a compromise with design and function to have it like it is.
4. Why does the Z4 have more horsepower than the Supra?
Tada-San:
I always get this question about numbers. My answer is: Just drive it first.
Oh yeah, like with the 86 Launch?
Tada-San:
Yes.
5. Why did you choose a BMW engine, why didn’t you make your own in-house Inline 6?
Tada-San:
We could have done it, but it would have taken significantly more time. And I didn’t want the car take any longer than it already did.
(Guff Notes: This is likely hinting at the fact that there wasn’t enough time for Tada to develop an engine because he would have missed his window to actually make the car, due to ever-constricting emissions regulations as well as the financial viability of developing a new engine. Or even his time as an engineer at Toyota (he’s technically retired))
Something I wanted to mention, and this is not corroborated by anything from Toyota, Tada-San, GR, or BMW. But, I have been looking into the development story of the Z4 and Supra, from the very first meeting in Q1 2012 til now, and there's one thing that has been racking my brain: The GR Team and Tada-San have been working with BMW since 2012 on this project. The idea to use the BMW inline 6 was present since the nascency of this project's development, and was one of the things they first started working on.
The BMW B58 was first released in 2015. It is a clean-sheet design over the previous N55 with a heavy emphasis on strength and durability compared to the N-series motors. It is part of BMW's modular engine design, so it has plenty in common with the other B-series engines including the diesels and the 4-cylinders, which does allow for more efficient/cost effective design.
Now, I am not saying that Toyota designed the B58, not by any stretch, but considering that we know that GR spent a significant amount of money and time breaking down engine/drivetrain parts and sending them back to Japan for testing and analysis, it makes sense that they were testing and improving parts on the B58 prior to its eventual release in the F30 340i in 2015. Whatever revision of the B58 that we ended up with in the Supra is unlikely to be just an off the shelf BMW unit, considering how much development time Toyota spent on it. In other interviews, Tada-San has specifically stated that there was a significant back and forth with BMW with "thousands of parts" sent back for analysis and development. Things like the chassis components, suspension, etc may account for some of that, but the engine is the one thing with the most question marks in terms of the specific components that lay within.
Anyways, that's just a sidebar, take from that what you will
. I am working on researching all the specifics of the development of this car and cataloging it, and this is just one of the things I am working on.You can put a broomstick in there.
Silver Arrows
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- 4,715
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- Silver-Arrows21
Again, it should be noted for it's hilarity how BMW's part in the A90 has been known since the very beginning (or at least, when the ball really started to get rolling) and it's only been in the last few months the A80 diehards were having hissyfits about losing the sanctity of the Supra name or whatever.
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^^ I wonder if the real answer to question 4 is reliability
- 27,387
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
It's probably because it wasn't known how much BMW would find its way into the Supra.
I'm really curious about its long-term viability. I don't doubt it's going to be a big sales hit for the first year or two, but my understanding is that the 86's sales have cratered to roughly 1/4 of their peak.
- 40,822
To be fair, the BreezFrees twins have also been on sale for a long time now; and they have barely changed from launch despite much newer "competition" and complaints that have buzzed around them since they came out. If Toyota actually bothers to update/improve the Supra as it ages instead of just 370-ing it for over half a decade, they may end up with a Challenger/Mustang situation instead.
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Or if they run out of people to sell new cars to, ad infinitum, they could always try plants and other animals. I'm seeing a major untapped market here. Many of them have never even owned a car before, so you could probably sell them any old rubbish at first.
In seriousness, I think it wholly depends on what Toyota and BMW's investment is as to whether a long term steady stream of sales even matters, or if a tail off is all part of the plan. Perhaps that's why they teamed up in the first place, they never expected the volume. Maybe that's also why Toyota were brave in the chassis tuning etc. - no mass market appeal ("safeness") necessary.
Which is good, it may even mean the Supra would never have happened otherwise if such a strong sales performance were required; same for the 86 trio. Did I read that BMW weren't going to renew the Z4 until Toyota showed an interest in their wares?
In seriousness, I think it wholly depends on what Toyota and BMW's investment is as to whether a long term steady stream of sales even matters, or if a tail off is all part of the plan. Perhaps that's why they teamed up in the first place, they never expected the volume. Maybe that's also why Toyota were brave in the chassis tuning etc. - no mass market appeal ("safeness") necessary.
Which is good, it may even mean the Supra would never have happened otherwise if such a strong sales performance were required; same for the 86 trio. Did I read that BMW weren't going to renew the Z4 until Toyota showed an interest in their wares?
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
That's true. Sticking with the Nissan comparison, the GT-R has had a steady evolution making it feel much less older than the Z, even if it was launched first.
Also good points. I'm sure the price point doesn't hurt either.
I imagine the Supra's halo-model status means profit is hardly a priority here anyway. If it reflects positively on the rest of the lineup, job done. These early reviews are sounding pretty positive so far.
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Excellent colour selection. 👍
That final distance tracking shot nails how good the car's proportions are. We've all picked it apart in close-up auto show shots, but backing away there's an inherent rightness to the new Supra. I think it'll be quite the head-turner on the roads for Joe Public, probably more so than the A80 was — I'm honestly not too sure, since I was too young and it was too rare 'round these parts.
Glad to hear it separates itself from both the pack and its BMW brother enough. Sounds like Toyota's serious about continuing the sporty fun-to-drive approach it started with the 86.
The pricing over on your side of the pond seems like it'll give the Supra a harder time than it will have here though: the M2 Comp is essentially $10k more here, and the Cayman S is double that. The sad lack of an Alpine on this side of the Atlantic helps too.
Is this the actual car you drove? Because it has a Belgian license plate, that is why I ask.
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It's a very angle-dependent car. Most rear angles look great. Dead front does too, and side-on is pretty good though the short wheelbase can look a little odd. Higher-up front angles are a bit iffy as the bonnet is massive and if the light is hiding the character lines it can look like a big empty slab. Lower-down front shots like the one I posted above work though, as you see less metal and more of the car's attitude.
Yup, the actual car. I think Toyota Europe's headquarters are in Brussels, hence the numberplate.
- 11,855
- Marin County
This car is quick. I definitely like the looks of a Boxster (not to mention it's ability to go top down) more than the Supra....but the Supra would be a very compelling case to take my $50k if I was dead set on spending it on a sports car. I like the interior too. I just don't love the detailing on the body.
I'm starting to wonder if Porsche reintroducing 6-cylinder engines back into the 718 lineup is a hedge against Toyota stealing their sales?
I think what Toyota did here was basically look at the MK IV Supra, realized its concept (big, expensive, grand touring sports coupe) was either hopeless or redundant (LC500) in 2019, and made something that people are actually willing to spend $50k on. And I think it's going to be a success. They've made something that I don't honestly feel anyone has truly, successfully made in the last 22 years...a viable competitor to the Boxster/Cayman - a refined, sophisticated, quasi-luxurious, comfortable but also a pure, properly driver-focused, capable, genuinely fun sports car for a reasonable (dubious) price. There's a lot of cars that have either one side of this equation or the other, but not many can claim both. I think that's what makes the Supra such a compelling case at the $50k price point.
I'm starting to wonder if Porsche reintroducing 6-cylinder engines back into the 718 lineup is a hedge against Toyota stealing their sales?
I think what Toyota did here was basically look at the MK IV Supra, realized its concept (big, expensive, grand touring sports coupe) was either hopeless or redundant (LC500) in 2019, and made something that people are actually willing to spend $50k on. And I think it's going to be a success. They've made something that I don't honestly feel anyone has truly, successfully made in the last 22 years...a viable competitor to the Boxster/Cayman - a refined, sophisticated, quasi-luxurious, comfortable but also a pure, properly driver-focused, capable, genuinely fun sports car for a reasonable (dubious) price. There's a lot of cars that have either one side of this equation or the other, but not many can claim both. I think that's what makes the Supra such a compelling case at the $50k price point.
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Danoff
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- Mile High City
That seems like magic given the 3100lb curb weight. I guess with the right gearing and of course the paddle shifters, but still... I'm not sure how that's being done.
If you just sat me down and said "3100lbs, 3.8s to 60, estimate a horsepower", I'd have said like 500. Sure, put that engine in an elise and you can get your times down there. My intuition is not properly calibrated here.
Edit:
It's not even the high 300s... this is E46 M3 territory in terms of HP and weight (ish).
Last edited:
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