TransAsia Airways Flight 235 Crash In Taiwan

[Robin]

Another blow to the South East Asian airline industries image and another tragedy. The plane is very new having being delivered to the airline in April 2014.

TransAsia flight 235 crash live: At least 12 killed as Taiwan plane clips bridge and plummets into river

A TransAsia flight clipped a bridge shortly after takeoff and plummeted into a shallow river near the island's capital of Taipei on Wednesday, killing at least 15 people. These are the latest updates:

• State media have reported that 26 people had been pulled from the plane, with rescue efforts continuing to rescue any survivors
• A total of 58 people were on board the domestic flight
• As many as 31 passengers were from mainland China, Taiwan's TVBS news broadcaster said
• The country's Central News Agency said the plane was travelling from Taipei to the outlying island of Kinmen when it lost contact with flight controllers at 10:55 a.m on Wednesday.
• It is the second of TransAsia's French-made ATR 72 planes to crash in the past year. Last July, a flight crashed while attempting to land on the island of Penghu off Taiwan's coast, killing 48 people and injuring another 10.

And it was caught on this insane video on YouTube..

Spoiler: Warning - Video Of The Plane Crashing

 

[Liquid]

You might want to have that as a link or spoiler, just out of good taste.

A turboprop? From that video, the plane does clip a bridge but it was already out of control. My first thought was that the plane could have been overloaded, affecting the centre of gravity too much; reminded me somewhat of the Afghan cargo crash. At least there were some survivors from this one, trusting the state media.

It's really not a great time for south east Asian airline companies.

 

[eran0004]

Looks like a stall. Before it turns over sideways it's dropping like a space shuttle, belly first.

Could be lots of reasons: Instrument failure, pilot error, engine failure, elevator failure or, like @Liquid sad, bad center of gravity.

Edit: Looks like engine failure.

The last communication from one of the aircraft's pilots was "Mayday Mayday engine flameout", according to an air traffic control recording on liveatc.net.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/taiwan-transasia-plane-crash-at-5102908

 

[Robin]

Look at the taxi! The plane clipped it and apparently the driver fainted, got to be one of the biggest near misses out there.

Does look like it was a mechanical failure which is worrying on a plane so new. It was serviced recently so we will have to wait and see...

 

[Keef]

Edit: Looks like engine failure.

That's rough. There's no way to level off to a shallow climb when you're surrounded by tall buildings. You either climb out or you crash. Obviously continuing to climb above the buildings resulted in a stall.

 

[Liquid]

Luckily for that taxi driver Taiwan is LHD.

 

[eran0004]

Does look like it was a mechanical failure which is worrying on a plane so new. It was serviced recently so we will have to wait and see...

Could be a birdstrike in the engine.

That's rough. There's no way to level off to a shallow climb when you're surrounded by tall buildings. You either climb out or you crash. Obviously continuing to climb above the buildings resulted in a stall.

What is rough? Nothing is obvious at this point.

 

[niky]

That taxi driver is one lucky son of a something-of-another...

Scary. Reminds me of a crash that happened here years ago. Plane overshot the runway, didn't clear the highway when pulling back out. Killed eight people slicing through daytime traffic.

 

[Omnis]

@Keef, any idea why they rolled left like that? It would seem that if they had kept the plane level, they may have cleared the highway and splashed down into the river on the belly of the plane.

I saw this video thanks to Niky's facebook post. I was like, "Oh boy, what happens now? Some idiot in a yellow car drives off the bridge?" The last thing I was expecting was a plane to come into frame! Unbelievable.

 

[GTPorsche]

Could be a birdstrike in the engine.

A birdstrike would have damaged a prop, which doesn't look that likely after watching the video. Doesn't appear to be any anomalies with the rotating props and both were appearing to be rotating normally. Since the last transmission was regarding an engine flame out, I'm guessing something in the left engine broke, as that would be in line with the behavior of the plane as it crashed.

 

[Keef]

@Keef, any idea why they rolled left like that? It would seem that if they had kept the plane level, they may have cleared the highway and splashed down into the river on the belly of the plane.

Several aerodynamic factors could cause it. The airplane was almost certainly stalled which always creates the tendency of any airplane to roll one direction or the other - it requires good rudder control to maintain level flight during a stall or the plane could roll into an aerodynamic spin. The reasons this happens are due to slight differences in aileron rigging, wing shape, wind direction, and especially P-factor and torque on single engine planes. Some of the first words a new student will hear from his instructor are "Right rudder...right rudder" during takeoff because the engine torque and P-factor produce a strongish pull to the left. I imagine WW2 pilots could probably squat 800 pounds with their right thigh.

But probably the biggest factor in this roll was differential thrust. This is a potentially fatal problem with all multi-engine planes, especially twins with engines mounted forward like anything from a Commanche to the ATR. When one engine goes, the other one still pushing is off to the side which creates an extremely strong tendency to lift and roll that wing. If this happens at low altitude to an unaware pilot it will flip the plane and send it straight to the ground, no questions asked. It takes basically all the available rudder and aileron at low speed to counter such differential thrust and when the plane is stalled, as it looks to be in the video, there control surfaces simply don't have any authority because of little airflow. Given they had an engine failure, that is the more likely reason.

 

[Omnis]

Aren't planes supposed to be able to take off on one engine? Or is that just an FAA thing?

 

[Keef]

Aren't planes supposed to be able to take off on one engine? Or is that just an FAA thing?

I'm not up on my multi-engine or commercial regs but yes the ICAO have established minimum performance rules which member countries are allowed to improve upon.

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...tegory_Jet_Aircraft#Effects_of_Engine_Failure

But that doesn't mean the pilots will catch the failure immediately and recover without issue. It also doesn't mean that old buildings which technically violate new runway clearance rules haven't simply been left standing because of red tape.

 

[eran0004]

A birdstrike would have damaged a prop, which doesn't look that likely after watching the video. Doesn't appear to be any anomalies with the rotating props and both were appearing to be rotating normally. Since the last transmission was regarding an engine flame out, I'm guessing something in the left engine broke, as that would be in line with the behavior of the plane as it crashed.

Depending on where and how it hits, and how big the bird is. It could just have caused minor damage to the propeller and then hit the turbine.

 

[GTPorsche]

Depending on where and how it hits, and how big the bird is. It could just have caused minor damage to the propeller and then hit the turbine.

It would have to hit and go through near the center of the prop. It would be pretty unlikely that the prop would not be significantly damaged.

 

[FoRiZon]

I have to be honest. That was the most dramatic crash i've ever seen in my life. Its feels like a miracle.

Then again, condolence to the people who affected from the crash. I hope theyre allright.

 

[GTPorsche]

I have to be honest. That was the most awesome crash i've ever seen in my life. Its feels like a miracle.

Then again, condolence to the people who affected from the crash. I hope theyre allright.

About half the people on the plane were killed.

I wouldn't call that crash "awesome" at all...

 

[Tornado]

I saw this video thanks to Niky's facebook post. I was like, "Oh boy, what happens now? Some idiot in a yellow car drives off the bridge?" The last thing I was expecting was a plane to come into frame! Unbelievable.

Similar here. I saw the YouTube video preview and thought the plane skimmed the highway roughly parallel. When I saw the plane essentially drop out of the sky I jumped a bit.

 

[FoRiZon]

About half the people on the plane were killed.

I wouldn't call that crash "awesome" at all...

I swear i was never see that kind of video until now. Brutal honesty, i know.

Like i said, condolence to those who killed.

 

[Cano]

@Keef
I saw this video thanks to Niky's facebook post. I was like, "Oh boy, what happens now? Some idiot in a yellow car drives off the bridge?" The last thing I was expecting was a plane to come into frame! Unbelievable.

Similar here. I saw the YouTube video preview and thought the plane skimmed the highway roughly parallel. When I saw the plane essentially drop out of the sky I jumped a bit.

I first saw pictures of it and when I saw the plane like that, I thought the bridge kinda slanted downwards towards the end of the road or something. When I saw the video I cursed a bit. Then I discovered it hit the taxi and was worse. It's amazing.

 

[eran0004]

It would have to hit and go through near the center of the prop. It would be pretty unlikely that the prop would not be significantly damaged.

It has to be very significant to show up on a poor quality video. I wouldn't rule a bird strike out.

^ These are from the videos. It's pretty hard to say anything about the condition of the propeller.

Spoiler: Examples of propeller damage from bird strike

^ The propeller is feathered, to minimize the drag after power failure. Had it not been feathered it would rotate.

 

[Keef]

It has to be very significant to show up on a poor quality video. I wouldn't rule a bird strike out.

View attachment 304666

^ These are from the videos. It's pretty hard to say anything about the condition of the propeller.

I think based on the video all we can tell is that the left engine is the one that failed. The prop appears to be spinning slower than the other or not at all and looks feathered to me.

I'm really not sure what caused the roll to the left besides a stall. The plane was already descending by the time it entered the frame and appeared stable. Perhaps they lost that last little bit of airspeed trying to avoid the highway, lost control surface authority and differential thrust took over.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

According to the BBC the pilot's last communication was "mayday, mayday, engine flameout." Not a bird strike, then.

 

[eran0004]

According to the BBC the pilot's last communication was "mayday, mayday, engine flameout." Not a bird strike, then.

A bird strike can cause an engine flameout.

 

[GTPorsche]

I think based on the video all we can tell is that the left engine is the one that failed. The prop appears to be spinning slower than the other or not at all and looks feathered to me.

I'm really not sure what caused the roll to the left besides a stall. The plane was already descending by the time it entered the frame and appeared stable. Perhaps they lost that last little bit of airspeed trying to avoid the highway, lost control surface authority and differential thrust took over.

The rolling to the left could have been caused by that engine going out and the right engine being the one still providing the power and the pilot not catching it in time to compensate.

 

[RACECAR]

Not sure I really can get around the Birdstrike theory, Its much harder for a engine prop engine to flameout via birdstrike then a Jet engine since it has the blades, which would hit that object before it reached it.

I saw this video thanks to Niky's facebook post. I was like, "Oh boy, what happens now? Some idiot in a yellow car drives off the bridge?" The last thing I was expecting was a plane to come into frame! Unbelievable.

Same here. I was expecting another typical dash cam crash, then I got the shock of my life the moment the plane came in. That's the first crash video I've seen in a longtime that actually made my heart skip, just seems unreal.



Edit: So I read that this happened shortly after takeoff. I'm wondering if when it came into frame, how far was it from the runway it took off.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Edit: So I read that this happened shortly after takeoff. I'm wondering if when it came into frame, how far was it from the runway it took off.

From here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/taiwan-transasia-plane-crash-at-5102908

 

[eran0004]

Not sure I really can get around the Birdstrike theory, Its much harder for a engine prop engine to flameout via birdstrike then a Jet engine since it has the blades, which would hit that object before it reached it.


Edit: So I read that this happened shortly after takeoff. I'm wondering if when it came into frame, how far was it from the runway it took off.

We'll find out soon enough. But it's unusual for a turboprop engine to flameout at takeoff power (only 10% of flameouts occur at takeoff power). A birdstrike could be a plausible reason. Even though a bird would strike the propeller first it could still enter the turbine and cause damage.

 

[RACECAR]

Looking at that flight path, I'm now trying to see at what point did the troubles start. Initially, I had though maybe it was already that low above the buildings because the runway was not too far away, but it looks like it didn't happen as quick as I first imagined.

 

[FoRiZon]

About half the people on the plane were killed.

I wouldn't call that crash "awesome" at all...

Okay, the correct word is dramatic. I fixed it.

I swear to god because im tired from work.

Looking forward to the blackbox for the thorough cause.