Tuner’s Guide for the Non-Tuner

[Motor City Hami]

I re-wrote this guide and it now lives in my Motor City Tunes garage. Link below.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4641238#post4641238

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Just want to pop in and mention something about initial...

I've not seen it impact anything but the transition between acceleration and deceleration; it does not affect how strongly the LSD locks under acceleration or deceleration.

To prove the point... Try an initial torque of 60 and an accel of 5 on the LSD of a reasonably powerful RWD car. Try to do donuts. Notice only the inside tire actually spins. Now put initial back to 5 and slowly increase accel until both spin, then drop it by one click (so only the inside spins again) and crank initial again. It'll still only spin one. What it WILL do however, is cause a momentary locking of the differential when you first let off the throttle or go from coasting to accelerating.

Also, good to see another Detroit-ish-er.

 

[redmalloc]

Thanks both for the interesting posts.

What does "relative to the spring rate" mean for the damper settings?

 

[Motor City Hami]

When I first buy a car, I will look at the GT5 setting on the car. Notice that all settings are the same on every car, except for spring rate and anti-roll bars. The spring rates are often an indication of an optimum setting for the car, though usually a bit light once you install race tires. I look at the ratio between front and rear and usually bump the springs up to between half or 3/4 on the number bar for that car.

Second, your dampers should be in a relative ratio to the spring rates. If I put the fronts 3/4 of the way to the left (heavier spring rate), my dampers should be in that same area... 3/4 of the way across the bar. For road cars, I put the rebound a little further across the bar than the spring rate (heavier) and the compression a little to the right of the spring rate. These numbers are different by car, so that's what I mean by relative to the spring rate. For rally cars I use far more split between bound and rebound... like 3 or 4 numbers, but still keep the spring rate sandwiched between bound and rebound.

Make sense?

Also, good to see another Detroit-ish-er.

You're not a Waterford Hills Raceway guy, are you? I started my SCCA racing there in a Honda Civic and have now moved to regional/national SCCA in a Spec Miata.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

You're not a Waterford Hills Raceway guy, are you? I started my SCCA racing there in a Honda Civic and have now moved to regional/national SCCA in a Spec Miata.

Nah. No money to go racing, no suitable vehicle.

Which is why I'm here. Suddenly, I do have the money and plenty of different vehicles. Too bad they're not real.

 

[redmalloc]

Make sense?

Thanks for the clarification. I do understand your explanation. I'll have to spend some time in game trying it before I will say "I understand" though

 

[Adrenaline]

Fine tuning acceleration sensitivity: Accel affects the car anytime you are on throttle; primarily apex through corner exit. If your car pushes when you get back on the gas, lower the accel number. If the car tries to spin out while on the gas on exit, raise this number.

I wanted to clarify on the bolded aspect.
Is this written as you intended? I only ask, because in every scenario, every one of my tune reviews, I seem to experience the car wanting to 'spin out' while on the gas on exit... The odd thing, is that I've always rectified this by lowering the Accel Setting and based on my best recollection, it's always worked as intended.

Am I a freak of nature, is something else happening, that's flawing my results, or was this a possible typo? I'm willing to accept that any of these options is extremely likely, albeit contrary to belief and experience thus far, but... so is life I guess.

Regardless, great write up!

 

[GT5SER]

Just want to pop in and mention something about initial...

I've not seen it impact anything but the transition between acceleration and deceleration; it does not affect how strongly the LSD locks under acceleration or deceleration.

To prove the point... Try an initial torque of 60 and an accel of 5 on the LSD of a reasonably powerful RWD car. Try to do donuts. Notice only the inside tire actually spins. Now put initial back to 5 and slowly increase accel until both spin, then drop it by one click (so only the inside spins again) and crank initial again. It'll still only spin one. What it WILL do however, is cause a momentary locking of the differential when you first let off the throttle or go from coasting to accelerating.

Also, good to see another Detroit-ish-er.

So, are you saying that the way he sets up the LSD is wrong? How would you set one? Now, I don't claim to be a tuner, but I think of myself as a good driver and love to drive. That's why I'm reading this. I can drive better than I tune. But, I would love to tune some of my own cars that really like. The only thing I do is make it worst.

Thanks for the read from both. This really helps. I will try both of them the next time I boot the game.

- Jeramy

 

[nomis3613]

If the car tries to spin out while on the gas on exit, raise this number*.

*LSD accel

I seem to experience the car wanting to 'spin out' while on the gas on exit... The odd thing, is that I've always rectified this by lowering the Accel Setting and based on my best recollection, it's always worked as intended.

You are both correct! LSD tuning is complex, its effect can be totally different depending on the situation, so drivers will have very different opinions about the "best" setting.

For the accel setting, increasing it will increase traction (reducing power-oversteer). But if the engine has even too much power for the outside tyre, then a higher LSD accel will mean the rear end "snaps" more aggresively so the oversteer is harder to control when it occurs.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Thanks for the positive comments. Like I said, I don't claim to be on the level of master tuner like some of the tune shops, but I have made the game way more fun for me by getting most of the push out of the cars.

Adrenaline - The only explaination I have for what you are experiencing is that with high horsepower cars, you may be getting back on throttle too early in the corner and spinning both rear tires? Check out a replay or glance down at the tire indicators to see which one(s) are red. If you are spining one rear tire, raise the initial torque. If spinning both, maybe raise the traction control or ease onto the throttle? I am taking a wild guess that your oversteer is not caused by the accel initial torque. I have only seen it do more steering off the corner with lower numbers and less steering with a higher number.

I am making a bit of a guess here, but I doubt that the programmers were sophisticated enough to make a single number setting do different things for different corners. I believe that it it always some other adjustment that adds a new element. The one thing that I believe most is that the LSD is the most important tune in the game, the super tune.

So, are you saying that the way he sets up the LSD is wrong? How would you set one? - Jeramy

I would be interested to hear a bit more about initial torque on the LSD. My experience is that I haven't found much use for it. I found bigger gains in accel and braking settings. The only thing I have used initial torque for is if one wheel spins on high horsepower cars, I raise it. On low horsepower cars I am usually at 8. I also noticed that if I set this too high, my car would seem to skip around the corner. I was jerky so I lowered the number back down. You want the car to roll through the corner nice and smooth to keep up the highest corner speed.

Has anyone else experimented enough with it to realy understand the range of the adjustment and a suggestion for the non tuner.

 

[stueys]

When I first buy a car, I will look at the GT5 setting on the car. Notice that all settings are the same on every car, except for spring rate and anti-roll bars. The spring rates are often an indication of an optimum setting for the car, though usually a bit light once you install race tires. I look at the ratio between front and rear and usually bump the springs up to between half or 3/4 on the number bar for that car.

Second, your dampers should be in a relative ratio to the spring rates. If I put the fronts 3/4 of the way to the left (heavier spring rate), my dampers should be in that same area... 3/4 of the way across the bar. For road cars, I put the rebound a little further across the bar than the spring rate (heavier) and the compression a little to the right of the spring rate. These numbers are different by car, so that's what I mean by relative to the spring rate. For rally cars I use far more split between bound and rebound... like 3 or 4 numbers, but still keep the spring rate sandwiched between bound and rebound.

Make sense?

Hi, first time poster. I have been having a problem getting rid of understeer from my Evo 9 on sports softs at Tsukubu. It has reasonable turn in, but bad mid corner and exit understeer with the outside front wheel going red (spinning?). I have tried the suspension settings at full soft front and hard rear and everything inbetween, with very little difference. I am going to try your lsd settings and see if that helps.
I might be having a bad brain day, but I cant make much sense of the spring rate/damper part. I have read that lowering the number on the spring rate gives a harder spring, which makes no sense to me.This may or may not be right, opinion seems divided.
If you could try another way of explaining it perhaps with a base example of numbers for sprin/dampers and how they change, perhaps it may get through!!

 

[BlueShift]

To prove the point... Try an initial torque of 60 and an accel of 5

Fail

You choosed too extreme values, the LSD act strangely with these since GT2.
Try to stay in 8-50 range to correctlly understand initial : you'll see that the main effect is LSD's "strongness".

If you go in 7 or under, or 50 or higher (I beleive the values are % of traction power to the spinning wheel but I won't say I'm sure), you'll profit of what I call "the dark school" of the LSD : these are opened or closed values, and makes the exact effects you describe, shutting the LSD's main effect. At this values the "dark initial" acts like "normal accel/decel" and "dark accel/decel" acts like "normal initial".

But in the "normal" range you'll see initial is the LSD strength.

To see that, there's something more simple.

Have a very powerfull and very ligth MR, put accel to 49. On a straigth line, try to stay with one traction wheel in the grass and the other traction wheel on the road @150km/h.
With initial @ 10, you'll autoturn back to the road or the car remains semi-stable in grass.
With initial @ 30, the car will want to stay in the grass.
With initial @ 49, you'll be doing donuts @150km/h and crash.

At 5 you have a dark initial (open LSD) so the LSD won't even lock so nothing can be seen and if it locks, it locks with a strength of 5 so who cares
At 60, I'm not sure but I think it become too much sensitive because of the "dark effect" and the strength of 60 is too sensitive (initial becoming a accel/deccel effect). I never use closed LSD on MR anyway, it's dumb and noobish lsd work even for a drifting setup.

But how can't initial be the LSD strength, then, within normal values. It's just his main effect.

What you describe is lsd's dark school, something you see only when you're setting your car a very special way to seperate deceleration strength and accel strength using a locked sensitivity with initial <8 or >55.
This method is what you want for exemple on the yellowbird to correct understeer to oversteer to understeer problems. Just try and tell me.

This effect is the main reason nobody understand lsd correctly.

My personal theory is if these are really %, well at more than 50% you're stealing unspinning traction power to give the same to the spinning wheel and the LSD never stabilize because of wheel inertia. And <7 I just don't know. Maybe the same because of wheel inertia.

I allready made a wall of text on a topic with guys asking how a lsd worked describing that...

What do you think ?

@OT : your default 4RW is not good unless you have a 50/50 traction car with a 50/50 mass (MR engine position, like the ZZII, which mass distrib is 40% front/60% rear), and as every single one guy here you keep inverting dampers. Please keep on, the differences are "small" but we'll see who will win tuning comp

 

[SS_1182]

Fail

You choosed too extreme values, the LSD act strangely with these.
Try to stay in 8-54 range to correctlly understand initial : you'll see that the main effect is LSD's "strongness".

If you go in 7 or under, or 55 or higher, you'll profit of what I call "the dark school" of the LSD : these are opened or closed values, and makes the exact effects you describe, shutting the LSD's main effect. At this values the "dark initial" acts like "normal accel/decel" and "dark accel/decel" acts like "normal initial".

But in the "normal" range you'll see initial is the LSD strength.

To see that, there's something more simple.

Have a very powerfull and very ligth MR, put accel to 50. On a straigth line, try to stay with one traction wheel in the grass and the other traction wheel on the road @150km/h.
With initial @ 10, you'll autoturn back to the road or the car remains semi-stable in grass.
With initial @ 30, the car will want to stay in the grass.
With initial @ 50, you'll be doing donuts @150km/h and crash.

At 5 you have a dark initial (open LSD) so the LSD won't even lock so nothing can be seen and if it locks, it locks with a strength of 5 so who cares
At 60, I don't really predict how it will react I forgot, I never use closed LSD.

But how can't initial be the LSD strength, then, within normal values.

💡

 

[nycrom1971]

Hi! Can u help me with my Lexus SC 430 tuning? I feel this car always a bit understeering..u have to know that it's totally stock.
Best regards
Nyc.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Fail

You choosed too extreme values, the LSD act strangely with these.
Try to stay in 8-54 range to correctlly understand initial : you'll see that the main effect is LSD's "strongness".

If you go in 7 or under, or 55 or higher, you'll profit of what I call "the dark school" of the LSD : these are opened or closed values, and makes the exact effects you describe, shutting the LSD's main effect. At this values the "dark initial" acts like "normal accel/decel" and "dark accel/decel" acts like "normal initial".

The values are in terms of % lock. 5 is as low as the LSD can go, leaving 5% locking factor regardless, 60% is the highest it can go. If 60 were 100% lock the car would bind badly when cornering and cause the car to skip around a large amount due to the differential not allowing any difference in wheel speed.

It would also preclude some of the factory differentials' settings. Example A: RWD Nissan stock differential has an initial of 50, an accel of 80 (yes, 80), and a decel of 0.

But in the "normal" range you'll see initial is the LSD strength.

To see that, there's something more simple.

Have a very powerfull and very ligth MR, put accel to 50. On a straigth line, try to stay with one traction wheel in the grass and the other traction wheel on the road @150km/h.
With initial @ 10, you'll autoturn back to the road or the car remains semi-stable in grass.
With initial @ 30, the car will want to stay in the grass.
With initial @ 50, you'll be doing donuts @150km/h and crash.

I've NEVER seen initial torque affect the lock of the diff when accelerating or decelerating, only when holding exact even speed with partial throttle before there's quite enough torque for it to actually impart lock from the accel or decel settings.

At 5 you have a dark initial (open LSD) so the LSD won't even lock so nothing can be seen and if it locks, it locks with a strength of 5 so who cares

WRONG. Entirely.

Try 5/40/whatever in a RWD car, any RWD car, as long as it has the power to spin both tires. Attempt donuts. It will spin both. Decrease accel to 10 or less, leaving initial. It will spin the inside tire only.

With an open diff, you will always spin only the tire with less grip and apply only the force required to keep that tire spinning to the other tire.

At 60, I'm not sure but I think it become too much sensitive because of the "dark effect" and the strength of 60 is too sensitive (initial becoming a accel/deccel effect). I never use closed LSD on MR anyway, it's dumb, even for drift cars.

The test will hold valid at less extreme values; I used them to demonstrate the point. An initial of 60 is, indeed, useless beyond demonstration purposes. For consistent differential action, initial should be somewhere between accel and decel; initial that is higher than both will momentarily attempt to bring wheel speed difference to the highest allowed by the % lock, lower will allow it to change to whatever it feels like up to the highest allowed by % lock. Both can create inconsistent action.

But how can't initial be the LSD strength, then, within normal values.

Because... It isn't. It is only in effect during transition (when the differential has close to zero force on it), not when accelerative or decelerative forces are acting upon it.

 

[Motor City Hami]

So I hear both of you and I think each of you is partially correct. I don't at all believe the tuners who are posting that things in the game are backwards (ride height, springs, toe). I will admit that I did get a car without an LSD to spin out in every corner by raising the front ride height all the way up and the rear all the way down. My hypothesis is that these extreme, backwards tunes are a result of people not having the LSD settings correct and having to over compensate the super tune LSD affect.

With that in mind, I have to believe that the in-game tuning tips do what they say, if the LSD is close. That has been my experience. So, for the initial torque on the LSD, the game says that raising the number will increase the affect of the diff (does anyone have the exact in-game quote). Initial torque now makes more sense to me when one of you described it as a percentage of side to side weight distribution. Raise the I.T. number and the diff's ability to transfer torque, or eliminate inside wheel spin, increases. Decrease the number and more chance of wheel spin and less power pulling you through the corner. I don't think that I believe that it has any locker timing affect for the transition between accel and decel. The game tips don't say it and I don't think their programming is that clever. Individual settings all tend to be an A to B relationship.

What this means to me is that my method for setting initial torque is valid. If you smoke the inside drive tire, increase the I.T.. If the car seems to side skip through the corner, the I.T. is too high. I may try some numbers up to 20 I.T. on some of my 1000hp cars.

Also, I think a rally car may respond very well to a high front diff initial torque? I know that I didn't post a rally car setup above, but that's because I think it's just o.k. and I haven't fully figured them out. But hey, I'm a road racer.

 

[BlueShift]

I'm sorry Rotory but you're wrong.

Every single old GT tuner knows that effect since GT2 when it made its first appearance. It's in the manual or info of these old games.

Also speaking of comparison between 1 way diff and 2 way on your Nissan shows, IM(very own)O of course, that you don't really understand what is the diff between these 1 way and 2 way and think they are working the same, which is really wrong again.

-edit- you're also talking a lot with 4RW cars to prove your point, where you have 7 variables there + the susp and overcomplicate your explanation, I'm really sorry.

Just try what I said on an oversteering and ligth MR, say like the S-Zero, then come back and talk ? No ?

-edit 2 - To me, only accel/decel are % and initial is strength, and that model works since GT1 for me, some something like 15 years or so. When I use that, I never miss a LSD, and if you want a LSD tuning challenge on the same setup, i'll take it. I just know how they work, main effects and first two "harmonics".
But let's only do very hard LSD car if you want, like the Minolta with no driving aids and max hp for exemple. Or any badly u/s car like Jay leno's tank.

Pick a car.

What I'm saying that, for exemple on my Veyron where's the LSD accel/decel is perfectly neutral middle curve, quick accel/decel/accel/decel in that middle of a curve will keep having your car // to the curve.

Remove few point of initial, it's still //. Put few more points, it's still //. This is true until you go to 8/50 values. Past these values, it's not because extreme initial provoke shutting and opening effects that are not dependent of accel/decel sensitivity. Some "Try to throw a plume" or "Try to throw a 50kg weigth" effects inside your lsd if you want, compared to your normal model "try to throw a stone" locking effects. yes ? no ?
(Veyron may be a bad exemple because of 4rw front and rear lsd)

Well, anyway think what you want, I'm sorry. But I'm waiting for you in tuning challenges.
I know my LSD don't have problems, that's mostly what ppl likes in my setups.

Initial with % slip is dark school like i say, and the effect of this school can ONLY be seen under 7/over 50 or 55.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

4RW cars?

7 variables?

I've been exclusively mentioning RWD vehicles. Not AWD, not FWD, RWD. FR mainly.

My point with the Nissan differential seems to have been completely missed; it is a one-way differential but the locking % is higher than can be achieved with the adjustable LSD.

I'm only saying that I have not seen initial torque have the same effects as you describe; it won't stop the inside tire spinning as Hamilton mentioned (that is a lack of accel value but normally does not happen with the default settings on the FC LSD), nor will it cause greater locking under any circumstance aside from the transition from acceleration to deceleration and vice versa.

That said, it did seem to in GT4 and earlier. There is a reason I usually ran 6-9 initial torque in GT4 (and I did initially in GT5) but it does not seem to be the case here.

 

[BlueShift]

Fail

Fail

4RW cars?

7 variables?

I've been exclusively mentioning RWD vehicles. Not AWD, not FWD, RWD. FR mainly.

Yeah, that's my english understanding skills ftl...

I was bs-ing about 4RW and torque split.

My point with the Nissan differential seems to have been completely missed; it is a one-way differential but the locking % is higher than can be achieved with the adjustable LSD.

I'm only saying that I have not seen initial torque have the same effects as you describe; it won't stop the inside tire spinning as Hamilton mentioned (that is a lack of accel value but normally does not happen with the default settings on the FC LSD), nor will it cause greater locking under any circumstance aside from the transition from acceleration to deceleration and vice versa.

That said, it did seem to in GT4 and earlier. There is a reason I usually ran 6-9 initial torque in GT4 (and I did initially in GT5) but it does not seem to be the case here.

You're rigth !

Yup I told a lot of bull****s

I was documenting myself in french so I could understand a little more what you said.

Anyway, I've got access to GT4 official player guide in french via google books and there's game formulas in it, I'm not completly wrong. What I saw is strength diffrence between R wheel and L wheel, interpreting that like a strength alone.

At low intial you have no strength diff almost : a 5 setting mean a 47.5% of the car's couple to the fast wheel and 52.5% of the car's couple to the slow wheel.

I saw those 5% difference of the total couple and interpreted that as a strength.

@60, you have 20% of the car's couple to the fast wheel and 80% of the car's couple to the slow wheel.

Same again, 60% of the couple less on one wheel vs the other, wow, big strength. But one word is missing, it's strength difference.

Aaaaaaaaaaah my world is falling appart. (Or not, since my perception of the LSD's effect on the car still hold the road, but there's no magic values, arg)

For consistent differential action, initial should be somewhere between accel and decel; initial that is higher than both will momentarily attempt to bring wheel speed difference to the highest allowed by the % lock, lower will allow it to change to whatever it feels like up to the highest allowed by % lock. Both can create inconsistent action.

I don't understand what you said there but it seem to be interesting.
So you think each value is % with, for all 3 one, a range of L/R % to car's torque ? Initial, ok, now I'm sure (this formula is "solid, it's from the GT4 official guide", but the game changed so...). But the others too ?

I always interpreted these values as % of initial : something like accel/100 * initial = effect while accelerating and decel/100 * initial = effect while deccelerating.

With 10/40/20, that would give :
Initial
45% fast wheel / 55% slow wheel

Accelerating threeshold
48% fast wheel / 52 % slow wheel

Decelerating threeshold
49% fast wheel / 51 % slow wheel

 

[Motor City Hami]

You guys have now both lost me. I think this was a thread intended for the non-tuner and it has turned into a pissing match over who's right over the way initial torque works. Why don't each of you post what you think it does and offer a line or two on how beginners can use it as a tuning tool? Then we (others) can try out each of your thoeries and report back whether your description helped them or not. I have very clearly posted what I think the initial torque does. Your turn. The simple version, please.

 

[BlueShift]

The simple version, please.

I think it's that, if I don't mess with something :

On front traction wheels
Initial Torque
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
understeer oversteer

Accel sensitivity
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
oversteer understeer

Decel sensitivity (engine brake's "strength", don't yell at me Rotary )
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
oversteer understeer


On rear traction wheels
Initial Torque
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
understeer oversteer

Accel sensitivity
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
understeer oversteer

Decel sensitivity
0..5.........60..100
<------------------>
oversteer understeer




We were arguing about how it locks. That's just a problem of perception I think.

 

[bigberry]

Thanks OP nice guide. You're LSD settings inspired me to do some tuning.

I have a Megane sport badly needing an LSD.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I don't understand what you said there but it seem to be interesting.
So you think each value is % with, for all 3 one, a range of L/R % to car's torque ? Initial, ok, now I'm sure (this formula is "solid, it's from the GT4 official guide", but the game changed so...). But the others too ?

I always interpreted these values as % of initial : something like accel/100 * initial = effect while accelerating and decel/100 * initial = effect while deccelerating.

With 10/40/20, that would give :
Initial
45% fast wheel / 55% slow wheel

Accelerating threeshold
48% fast wheel / 52 % slow wheel

Decelerating threeshold
49% fast wheel / 51 % slow wheel

The way I interpreted it would be something like as follows...

Initial (no load on the diff, neither accelerating nor decelerating) of 10 would allow up to a 90% difference in wheel speed.
So if the left tire is turning at 100RPM, the right tire can turn as slowly as 10RPM.

Accel of 40 would allow a 60% difference, meaning the slow tire can only be at 40RPM or higher if the outside tire is at 100RPM when you are accelerating or left-foot braking (braking with some throttle applied).

Decel of 20 would allow an 80% difference, meaning the slow tire can spin as slow as 20RPM when the faster tire is at 100RPM.

But, GT5 actually has a very different explanation for the effects of initial torque to the previous GT games; To wit:

-Initial Torque: Initial torque is the amount of torque necessary to activate the LSD, and prevents sudden changes in performance and handling when the LSD is activated during acceleration or deceleration. The stronger the setting, the less likely unexpected changes in handling or performance are to occur, but the more likely you are to experience understeer.

This implies that, as with what you're saying, initial torque is not a percentage value, and instead is a somewhat arbitrary (or at least not obvious) value that affects when the LSD activates. It would seem that a higher value results in the LSD attempting to equalize wheel speed earlier under acceleration or deceleration. This is different to the way I've been testing it of late (with good results compared to my old "initial = understeer, but with stability" way of thinking) but it perhaps may be exactly why I've found the results I have.

If this is indeed the case, initial torque does not affect the differential's ability to attempt to equalize wheel speed (as noted in the "donut test" I previously mentioned) but rather what it takes to make it limit wheel speed. This is in-line with what I had been seeing in my testing (raising initial meant smaller changes in the car when transitioning to or from acceleration/deceleration) but the reason is different.

More testing is needed then! -runs off to try new things-

 

[Adrenaline]

I have a really, really dumb question, but as I read through this, trying to learn I realized I'm missing a huge part of the picture...

Does the LSD begin Locked, or unlocked?

Example: I'm flying down the back stretch of Grand Valley Speedway at 180+ in a straight line. Is the LSD open, or Locked?

Then as I slow down and enter the corner, is the 'torque required to activate' referring to the 'force needed' to tell the LSD that "hey we need to spin at different speeds now" allowing the LSD to go into an UNlocked setting. This is what causes that 'nose dive' that we see the car make towards the apex under de-accel?
Is that actually the LSD opening up, and allowing the car to rotate?

This makes the most sense, if you consider 'torque' applied by the track on de-accel. Meaning the tighter the turn, the more 'torque' the track places on the rear wheels. Forcing it into an open mode.

Then 'torque' applied by the engine, on acceleration on exit, is what causes the LSD to return to a 'locked' position.

Following this logic, (That I just made up) I come to the conclusion that Accel and De-accel are completely independent of each other. As well as the fact that the LSD goes through 2 transitions. From Locked to Unlocked on Entry, then from Unlocked, to Locked on Exit.

Before I go any further, trying to put this into terms I myself can understand, I want to verify I'm heading in the right direction?

 

[GT5SER]

Ok, I have the Amuse 380RS and I have fully up-graded it. I will post the stock set-up with video on how it drives later. Without missing with anything, the car handles well so I thought to use this car as a test subject. When I go into a turn, ( lets say a right turn ) the braking is stable. Intering the apex, the car seems to push alittle, but not much. At the apex, I get on the gas and the car starts to spins the outside left tire. It's controlable, but it spins the wheel with the most traction. What will you do to fix the wheel spin?

- Jeramy

 

[SS_1182]

 

[Adrenaline]

I agree.

Ok, cool. Thanks.

 

[DareDevyl]

Hi All,

I found a guide that really made sense to me here. Somehow the persons explanation just seemed to make more sense than the in-game help. The guy definitely knows more than me, but I am no expert so that isn't saying much. Still, I have read a lot of competing information here on GTPlanet and have seen a few tunes that seem to run counter to his information. Here are some issues it raised for me, a non-tuner, who just wants to get the basics down:

1) Spring Rate Value in GT5 - Does a higher number in GT5 mean STIFFER or SOFTER springs? According to the guide here and my own common sense I am led to believe a Higher Number = STIFFER. However I recently checked out a tune by Rotary Junkie here for a Volvo C30RS, a FF car with 420bhp @ 1196kg which made me question this. He suggests a Spring Rate of 10.3/2.8 which just seems backward to me. Shouldn't the rear springs be stiffer in a FF car to accommodate weight transfer during acceleration? Or are you trying to induce over-steer or compensate for your ride height settings? After searching (Google, GTPlanet) some firmly believe the Spring settings are backwards in GT5 and that a Higher Number = SOFTER. I am confused by this - any insight (Rotary Junkie?) would be appreciated.

2) Spring Rate and Weight in GT5 - I have seen some "light" (sub-1000kg), high horsepower cars with high Spring Rate values (16+). I am assuming that the higher available Spring Rate values are due to the Weight-to-Power Ratio (WPR) these cars have? Is there a rule of thumb for when the WPR trumps Mass (kg) as the basis for setting Spring Rate?

Just two things I was wondering - also, any comments on the guide I linked to here would be appreciated. Thanks!

-DD

 

[SS_1182]

Higher=stiffer. Springs move at a higher rate in closer distances, therefore the suspension doesn't move as far when absorbing impact, and is therefore more stiff.

 

[DareDevyl]

Higher=stiffer. Springs move at a higher rate in closer distances, therefore the suspension doesn't move as far when absorbing impact, and is therefore more stiff.

That's what I thought! Thanks. Can you comment on the Volvo setup in my post made by Rotary Junkie? I just can't figure why the Springs are setup that way.

-DD