Types of Vehicle Failures

[Jack The Ripper]

Well this has to do with damage and all that. I would like this put in but let's all be honest, should we blow out our engines or something of the sort, we would just restart the race so what's the point?

 

[Jerwin]

Well this has to do with damage and all that. I would like this put in but let's all be honest, should we blow out our engines or something of the sort, we would just restart the race so what's the point?

Blowing up your engine might happen if you're transmission settings isn't correct for the long straights, but I would just restart the game if something like that happens

A better tire wear system would be better though. Having your tires explode (not literally of course) when they're too worn out would be nice to have. You won't have to restart but you can still continue the race.

 

[1241Penguin]

Well this has to do with damage and all that. I would like this put in but let's all be honest, should we blow out our engines or something of the sort, we would just restart the race so what's the point?

The point would be to not drive like an idiot, especially during online competitions. (Check the Racing Series forum and iRacing.)

 

[Nismo4Life82]

I would love to see lug nuts stripped off and you lose a tire in races, also would love to see electrical failures as well, Clutches that go out as well.

 

[dr_slump]

Be aware of the martens!!!!

 

[racefan88]

I like the ideal of certain failures being caused by driver error,
engine failure from over revving
tire failure from too much wear or running over debris
run out of fuel
suspension failure from a big impact
this kind of stuff would make the endurance racing so fun, especially if it would take time to fix the car!

 

[Hei]

A total failure system would never be implemented into a GT or Forza game with the current technology available. It would be tough to implement a proper warning and safety system. So far i haven't seen any game do it properly, and likely won't see a game do it any time soon. Let's say you blow your engine and come to a halt mid-turn, would your car just magically get off the track. That wouldn't be very realistic would it? A more realistic approach would be for the game to issue a caution, or maybe even a red flag. Then the game would need a removal system, like a tow truck and a proper pace car to continue the race. That would be extremely tough to implement online. It would likely be filled of bugs and everyone would complain.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

I don't know about the rest of you but I've already repaired or had repaired more vehicle failures in my real life than I can easily recall. I do not want to spend my entertainment dollars "fixing" or dealing with virtual cars breaking down. The current degradation system is sufficient.


It's a "Driving", not "Repair Shop" simulator. Regardless of how closely, or not, it resembles the real world.

I. don't really think you guys actually want to have these features. You only want them to happen once, and that's exactly for how long it's "cool," after that you'll just think it's annoying and turn it off.

Besides, we already have "engine failures" in sim racing.

Ever heard of internet connections dropping? There

This. Exactly. However, I will add, equating (sp) a dropped network connection to simple engine failure is a big heap of understatement. I would equate it to being more akin to total, complete, car and driver blown off the face of the planet, catastrophic failure. If you can get out of the car before it leaves the atmosphere and have a parachute, you can watch everybody else continue while they chuckle about your crappy ISP.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Tire flats, tranny not engaging, and turbos going kaput would be nice...er not nice?

 

[Exorcet]

]i would like to say something, when i mean engine failures , lets say there's a green and red engine color meter telling how harsh you are on the engine

How about the engine temp and pressure gauges? The information we get should be realistic.

I'd like to see an option to force disable tire wear indicator too.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Madness. Just plain madness. This would kill any desire whatsoever to do endurance races. I can see it now. Hour 23:45, currently first place by comfortable margin, turbo pukes its guts out, ok we can limp it in without the turbo. No sweat. Hour 23:55 miss a downshift, tranny parts fly out as clutch burns, motor overrevs and snaps the timing chain/gear, smash the brakes through the firewall cuz of lack of engine braking, into the wall we go. Hour 23:55.040 start contemplating the universally final solution provided by the ancient Japanese rituals as you realize to win and get those shiny new pixels, you have to start again at hour 0:00.000.

No. No. No. No and no again.

It's just not worth the nanogram (likely much more for us standard mortals) of frustration and would only serve to send the less than hardcore gamer, screaming in search of MarioKarts.

 

[TuneR-]

Who says you would have to repair/pay for the damage? Or that there would be random failures?
I'd probably use it, if it is made that careless driving would have consequence, like from changing a gear from 4 to 1 for example. I think Race07 has done this very well. So IF PD has the time to implend it, why not? And it would propably be optional as the "damage" now, so you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Who says you would have to repair/pay for the damage?

24 hours is to much to pay.

Or that there would be random failures?

Define random and how it relates to man-made electro-mechanical devices?

I'd probably use it, if it is made that careless driving would have consequence, like from changing a gear from 4 to 1 for example. I think Race07 has done this very well. So IF PD has the time to implend it, why not? And it would propably be optional as the "damage" now, so you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

While I respect your's and others desires for a more robust damage and deterioration system I just don't think it will appeal to the wider GT audience.

The option to turn it off would create one more vector for dramatic separation, <sarcasm> which I for one think GT needs more of. </sarcasm>

 

[TuneR-]

24 hours is to much to pay.

Maybe, but that you would get from huge misshift etc. And IMO i'd like to have consequences from a driving error. Like in real life. But maybe only in heavy damage option, so if you don't want this to happen, put damage on weak or off.

Define random and how it relates to man-made electro-mechanical devices?

I mean that it doesn't need to be that realistic that there would be turbo puking out it guts in the middle of a race. Only failures as a consequence of your actions, pretty much like in Race07.

If this type of heavy damage doesn't appeal to wider audience, that's why there should be option for weaker damage or completely off, like there is a option similar in gt5 now. I don't understand that last sentence, basically you don't want that damage but don't want turn it off either? (if i understood correctly, my english isn't that good)

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Maybe, but that you would get from huge misshift etc. And IMO i'd like to have consequences from a driving error. Like in real life. But maybe only in heavy damage option, so if you don't want this to happen, put damage on weak or off.
I mean that it doesn't need to be that realistic that there would be turbo puking out it guts in the middle of a race. Only failures as a consequence of your actions, pretty much like in Race07.

If this type of heavy damage doesn't appeal to wider audience, that's why there should be option for weaker damage or completely off, like there is a option similar in gt5 now. I don't understand that last sentence, basically you don't want that damage but don't want turn it off either? (if i understood correctly, my english isn't that good)

There is already a penalty/damage/deterioration system in the current game. It takes into account that not everyone is entertained by having to fix the car before they can continue running it. It allows the hard core folks the ability to punish poor driving and reward good driving if they so desire.

The last sentence is a poke at anyone who thinks they are better than another because they did or did not use a particular aid, controller, after market part or specific tune. There are enough settings in the game already to set drivers/tuners apart and "discussing" which ones are better than others.

What I'm basically saying is the current game's damage/deterioration/bad driving penalty system is sufficient. I think it should be carried forward into future iterations with no more than minor tweaks. The devs have more serious issues to contend with if what I've read around the internet, heard in race rooms and experienced firsthand, are any indicators. Working out the crazy bugs (car sound effects attenuating when near other cars) and making physics behavior consistent would be top on my list of things to change in any future titles.

There is no way they can please everybody so it's best to hit the middle ground so the hard core realists will be engaged enough to plunk down their hard earned bucks and, if they have one, give their 4 year old prodigies a chance at being successful. Making it more complicated would not serve this purpose, if it is indeed part of their development philosophy.

What it all boils down to is entertainment value. What's going to make the largest group of people pay to play.

Oh and I wouldn't mind seeing engines blowing up, turbos and superchargers being puked out front grills, as long as it isn't my car it happens to. I'm not interested in pretending to be a mechanic, been doing that kind of stuff all my life, even if not in a race type setting. Interested in the entertainment of pretending to be a race car driver. Especially without all the extraneous stuff real race car drivers have to deal with.

 

[driftking9]

could be a turn on , turn off button for the failures, depending on the online server, it would be just like any gt5 server today, but it would tell you if server has failures OFF or ON

And other thing , when i talk about failures i dont mean random stuff like your turbo stops working or all of a sudden your engine looses power

I mean it depends how good of a driver you are, if you preserve tires, and and if you preserve your engine like a pressure and temp meter, that Exorcet was talking about

I dont think GT would go for all the electrical failures and all, but i think they can implement simple stuff that i mentioned above

 

[TuneR-]

I know that there are more important thing to fix than this, that's why i said IF PD would have the time after everything else is fixed, then why not. It's just my opinion.

I still don't understand your statement that not everyone is entertained of fixing the damage, then why can't you turn it off or put it to weak damage, it's not like you would be forced to drive with full damage. It kind of sound like you won't be entertained if there would be an option for higher damage for someone else. And who would "feel better about themshelf", it's not about that at all, why would you think of that?

I don't know how being a mechanic is related to this, you don't have to analyse and fix the proplems yourself.
But i understand your concern that if they would make it, it would possible take away time from other things that maybe you would like to see instead of this type of heavier damage.

Don't get me wrong, i think this kind of damage is most likely not going to happen, it just something i would like very much and use if they somehow would think of it.

 

[dethringr]

how about blowing up your engine block when installing a stage 3 turbo on a little engine with stage 3 tuning. and then having to spend some credits to rebuild the engine

 

[Machate-man]

Please Take 3min and Read


[ TRANSMISSION ]lets say you go from 5th gear down to 1st in 2seconds, you will break your gearbox and go into a spin imidieatly,that what happens in life no matter what car company you in( Mercedes Lexus Nissan etc..),
for racing cars that would probably mean you go into a spin and into the
closest wall,am I right or im I wrong?

That's only if you decide to engage the clutch when you shift down to those gears when going outrageous speeds; GT5 already opens the clutch every time the speed of the car is too much for a gear, and that would need to change in GT6. That's also why you can't engine brake in GT5...

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Given a choice between more complex damage/deterioration algorithms and higher level of tuning options I think I'd chose tuning. Would like to see, among others, the ability to set camber and toe for each wheel.

I would agree that adding more robust damage/penalties would enhance certain aspects of the game. The real question is, will those types of changes enhance the driving experience. Or, even on a wider scale, the game experience. From my perspective not really. From other's? Almost certainly.

Maybe it can all be worked in. Perhaps by some manner of game difficulty level similar to the aspec racing levels. Each level completed unlocks more options for everybody to use or not as they see fit.

 

[tpark103]

Given a choice between more complex damage/deterioration algorithms and higher level of tuning options I think I'd chose tuning. Would like to see, among others, the ability to set camber and toe for each wheel.

I would agree that adding more robust damage/penalties would enhance certain aspects of the game. The real question is, will those types of changes enhance the driving experience. Or, even on a wider scale, the game experience. From my perspective not really. From other's? Almost certainly.

Maybe it can all be worked in. Perhaps by some manner of game difficulty level similar to the aspec racing levels. Each level completed unlocks more options for everybody to use or not as they see fit.

You pretty much summed it up. Give the cars a little more realistic sound and feedback to the wheel then we might be on to something. It wouldn't hurt if we had a blended gt4/gt5 garage and homepage then things would start to get interesting. Ooops got off topic. :-/

 

[Griffith500]

Given a choice between more complex damage/deterioration algorithms and higher level of tuning options I think I'd chose tuning. Would like to see, among others, the ability to set camber and toe for each wheel.

I would agree that adding more robust damage/penalties would enhance certain aspects of the game. The real question is, will those types of changes enhance the driving experience. Or, even on a wider scale, the game experience. From my perspective not really. From other's? Almost certainly.

Maybe it can all be worked in. Perhaps by some manner of game difficulty level similar to the aspec racing levels. Each level completed unlocks more options for everybody to use or not as they see fit.

Well this is how I'd always imagined it, although not with a level system - just a selectable difficulty level, like you get in sims. None of the existing "realism" options apply to A-Spec in GT5, so that has to change next time. And I'm against totally (pseudo-)random failures; I too think it should be only those things that can be directly (and demonstrably) linked to your driving style.

An example from GPL: if you abused the engine whilst it was still cold, chances were it would fail on you during the race at some point (depending on the engine, but that variability is not likely to happen for GT). After having abused it, and recognising that fact, you could often nurse it home, too. I also liked the suspension damage from GPL, which GT is already close to, but it should also be affected by road surface interactions, not just barrier / car collisions. Busting a spring / link in GPL by hitting a curb or jump too hard was pretty catastrophic at that instant, but manageable thereafter.
Then there's things like bodywork damage affecting aerodynamics, which is a bit trickier to do, but would enrich the experience equally.

I don't think that improving the mechanical damage model (with optional persistence) is necessarily exclusive of other work on the game, so there probably isn't, in reality, a "choice" to be made between that and, say, more detailed tuning. In some cases, e.g. brake fade, the two go hand in hand.

As for the game catering to the "lowest common denominator", the very lowest is "people who don't really play games". Why on earth would you make games for people who don't play them? It's best to make games for gamers, and add accessibility options (e.g. aids) for those not so good at it - the more the better.