UAW Strikes! Axle Issues Idle GM Plants

[YSSMAN]

STRIKE!​

We had the TV on at 11:00AM EST expecting to see CNN, MSNBC and Fox News providing up to the minute coverage of the UAW's potential strike in the wake of failed contract negotiations with General Motors. Only CNN is covering the strike at this point, and it's 11:15 now. CNN, however, has been confused as to whether a strike is actually happening. They've been running live footage of vehicles streaming out of GM's Warren plant while passing picketers waving signs that read "UAW on Strike". Looks like a strike to us. The Detroit News, however, is not so confused, and is reporting that 73,000 workers at 59 plants were told yesterday that if they didn't hear otherwise by 11AM EST, they were to walk off the job. Word never came that an agreement had been reached, so GM's entire UAW workforce is walking off the job right now. The question remaining now is clear: how long can GM last?

We'll bring you more updates throughout the day as these historical events that could radically alter the automotive industry unfold.

UPDATE: Automotive News has its report up now, reiterating that UAW president Ron Gettelfinger said he was "shocked and disappointed" by GM's hard line stance during negotiations.
UPDATE 2: Watch GM's stock price throughout the day over at BloggingStocks (GM). As of 11:21AM EST, it is up 1.01 (+2.89%) to 35.95.
UPDATE 3: Today would be a good day to have forums, but since we don't have them (yet), check out the forums at the Detroit Free Press where six pages of heated discussion are already underway

This is very unfortunate. This is definately not what we need here in Michigan right now, and furthermore, I really don't think any of the Big Three want to put up with it. Right now, IMO, the cards are in GM's hands, and they will need to decide if they want to play them or not.

My solution?

Duck around the UAW, replace the jobs, and start the process by which the UAW is FORCED out of Detroit, FOREVER.

 

[exigeracer]

Duck around the UAW, replace the jobs, and start the process by which the UAW is FORCED out of Detroit, FOREVER.

Isn't that illegal? Do you know how impossible that would be to perform anyways?

 

[ERacer]

I believe worker's unions, in general, have outlived their purpose here in the USA to the point were they now may be detrimental to America's ability to compete in a global economy. We now live in a "meritocracy" which rewards performance! The socio-democratic UAW model is hurtful. Add to that the fact that GM's past management team has not helped GM at all and has placed the company in a very poor financial condition. It's a very sad story.

ERacer

 

[Philly]

So I get away from the Boeing crisis in Seattle only to find this? Why can't I win?

I actually believe in Unions. At least if they serve their purpose. It really is the only way for the working people to counter the power of the Corporation. Once they start power tripping and trying to get wages half the CEO's for the workers, then we have problems.

Anybody know what the AUW wants? Hopefully they and GM can resolve this. GM has really been doing much better lately and it would be a shame for them to fall back down.

 

[YSSMAN]

Isn't that illegal? Do you know how impossible that would be to perform anyways?

I don't know if its "illegal," but opting out of the UAW contracts and letting non-Union workers in sounds like a good idea to me... Do it the way Toyota does it; Give them all a reasonable salary, give them reasonable benefits, and you don't need a union.

...Although, as I understand it, Toyota has been screwing up, and they're trying to unionize their Tennessee and Texas plants...

 

[Philly]

I don't know if its "illegal," but opting out of the UAW contracts and letting non-Union workers in sounds like a good idea to me... Do it the way Toyota does it; Give them all a reasonable salary, give them reasonable benefits, and you don't need a union.

...Although, as I understand it, Toyota has been screwing up, and they're trying to unionize their Tennessee and Texas plants...

Yup. Do things right and we don't need unions. Pretty simple.

 

[forza2.0]

Yup. Do things right and we don't need unions. Pretty simple.

there will always be unions. There are unions for damn near everything and they serve a good purpose for the workers. However in GM's case right now they should be working together instead of bickering seeing as GM is so heavily indebt.

 

[Kent]

Well, I don't entirely agree with Forza's take on unions as they IMO usually don't serve a good purpose for the workers but instead provide great pocket lining money for union leaders and politicians.

In any case, I agree with YSSMAN for the most part.
Very Reagan-ish.
What? Strike? How about Strike three- you're out! :inyourface:

Hopefully the unions will realize that what they are doing is only pushing GM (along with the other big guys) out of the US instead of the intended result (which is to push Americans into the plants).

 

[YSSMAN]

I guess there is a big hubbub going on across the border, the Canadians are considering strike too.

This is all just so stupid. Sure, I may not understand the Union mentality, but the UAW as far as I can tell has done far more damage to my home state than they ever have done "good." Makes me want to drive to the UAW headquarters here in Grand Rapids and throw a few bricks around...

 

[Philly]

I guess there is a big hubbub going on across the border, the Canadians are considering strike too.

This is all just so stupid. Sure, I may not understand the Union mentality, but the UAW as far as I can tell has done far more damage to my home state than they ever have done "good." Makes me want to drive to the UAW headquarters here in Grand Rapids and throw a few bricks around...

Theoretically, it is GM's fault that this strike is happening.The workers want something that Gm isn't offering. Maybe it's working conditions that aren't keeping up with the times. Maybe pay isn't keeping up with inflation. Unions are there to keep the company in check and make sure the workers aren't exploited and left behind or whatever.

In reality, it probably is a combination of GM falling a little behind and the union capitalizing on that and making some unnecessary demands. Again, in theory, GM and the union will resolve this to where the workers get what GM isn't giving them and nothing more. The union might keep going for more. We'll see. Where does the government step in? Could they make it fair?

 

[YSSMAN]

For the most part I agree with you, and you may find it interesting to watch the local news coverage of the strikes tonight to see how the State usually reacts to things like this. Even though we've only got a few plants here on this side of the State, the whole area feels it... East, West, North, South... LP or UP.

My guess is that the Government, be it State or Federal, won't step in any time soon. Our State is out of money, and I don't think the Bush Administration would give a damn.

 

[Philly]

For the most part I agree with you, and you may find it interesting to watch the local news coverage of the strikes tonight to see how the State usually reacts to things like this. Even though we've only got a few plants here on this side of the State, the whole area feels it... East, West, North, South... LP or UP.

That might be worth a look. Maybe give me a little look into how unions work.

My guess is that the Government, be it State or Federal, won't step in any time soon. Our State is out of money, and I don't think the Bush Administration would give a damn.

I would think that it wouldn't be so much the government stepping in as maybe GM or the UAW taking it to the judicial system. If these things have a way of fixing themselves, then this will probably end with a similar result. I'm not to big on my workers' unions history, so you probably have a better idea than me.

 

[exigeracer]

This is all just so stupid. Sure, I may not understand the Union mentality, but the UAW as far as I can tell has done far more damage to my home state than they ever have done "good." Makes me want to drive to the UAW headquarters here in Grand Rapids and throw a few bricks around...

What about provide the right to a safe work environment, a decent salary, compansation when it is deserved and guaranteed moral rights at the workplace of tens of thousands of Michiganers. That's not a good thing?

 

[a6m5]

I hope this will kill General Motors. Then what? Where are you gonna go?

Unions do serve purposes, but in this day and age, they are just in the way most of the time. I think this is because their main focus(if secretly) is their job security. Like the governments, they have to keep on making stuff up to show that they are doing something.

They should be cutting back the unions, not the factories and workers.

 

[Redgodzila]

As an Australian whos closest thing to GM is Holden, I obviously don't have a clue whats going on. Can someone give me a rundown? Surely unions can't have so much power? Did GM set the bar too high and the unions are taking advantage?

 

[Mr. Hilter]

Redgodzilla, the UAW has a lot of power of the Big 3. GM didn't set the bar too high. The UAW will demand or strike, as they are doing now with GM. The UAW and GM were in contract negotiations. At 11:00 AM EST yesterday, local union leaders did not receive a call for them to go back to work, so the workers walked out and went on strike. They have agreed on a plan for healthcare where the UAW takes control of the healthcare plans for its workers and retirees. The UAW is too greedy to let people that work McJobs make higher wages than educated people that work long and hard to be making the same without the humongous benefit packages these guys get.

 

[YSSMAN]

What about provide the right to a safe work environment, a decent salary, compansation when it is deserved and guaranteed moral rights at the workplace of tens of thousands of Michiganers. That's not a good thing?

State and Federal laws already mandate the things you have outlined here, the Union has absolutely nothing to do with that. All the UAW is good for these days is demanding higher pay for less-dependable workers, protecting poor trade and labor laws that they find "favorable," and generally speaking, give a bad name to Unions throughout this great country of ours.

They never realize that they end up doing more harm than good these days.

---

To address the question of whats going on:

Basically the UAW (and I believe the CAW) didn't like the terms GM had for protecting their jobs and other guarantees about other stuff. They did reach an agreement on health care, which is good, but the UAW is too busy moaning about not getting paid enough and not knowing if jobs will stay in the US or not.

IMO, pay everyone a fair wage with fair benefits, people will come running... Particularly in Michigan.

 

[Philly]

Basically the UAW (and I believe the CAW) didn't like the terms GM had for protecting their jobs and other guarantees about other stuff. They did reach an agreement on health care, which is good, but the UAW is too busy moaning about not getting paid enough and not knowing if jobs will stay in the US or not.

IMO, pay everyone a fair wage with fair benefits, people will come running... Particularly in Michigan.

Problems like this can easily be avoided with pay and benefits. If these are satisfied, then the UAW only has to worry about what matters most: keeping jobs in Michigan. The problem is that big companies will do the minimum to meet standards, and that isn't good enough for the unions. And without unions to scare companies, I'm sure the automotive industry would be a horrible place to work. Look at Walmart. They only hire non-union workers. Look at their workers.

 

[Joey D]

I hate the UAW and I hate unions. Despite my past on these forums I really did truly work for GM as an intern a couple of summers ago and I hated working with the UAW guys, they are some of the laziest people I have ever seen in my entire life. GM should just ditch these guys because they get paid an awfully high wage and they do not have that hard of a job. I mean these guys would demand to come in on Sunday to work 8 hours at double the pay and they would make one bracket in that time...I can machine a bracket in about 20 minutes and I'm not even that skilled.

These idiots are ruining Michigan. I live about 1 mile from the GM Orion plant in Orion, Michigan and it disgusts me to see these guys just sitting around holding signs.

 

[Philly]

I hate the UAW and I hate unions. Despite my past on these forums I really did truly work for GM as an intern a couple of summers ago and I hated working with the UAW guys, they are some of the laziest people I have ever seen in my entire life. GM should just ditch these guys because they get paid an awfully high wage and they do not have that hard of a job. I mean these guys would demand to come in on Sunday to work 8 hours at double the pay and they would make one bracket in that time...I can machine a bracket in about 20 minutes and I'm not even that skilled.

These idiots are ruining Michigan. I live about 1 mile from the GM Orion plant in Orion, Michigan and it disgusts me to see these guys just sitting around holding signs.

Shouldn't GM be able to get rid of unproductive workers without going through the union? Maybe they just have to look for harder workers, if they exist. And getting paid double time on Sunday should mean nothing unless they already have a 40-hour week, in which case pay would be time and a half, right?

 

[Duke]

The problem is that big companies will do the minimum to meet standards, and that isn't good enough for the unions. And without unions to scare companies, I'm sure the automotive industry would be a horrible place to work. Look at Walmart. They only hire non-union workers. Look at their workers.

Last I heard, Wal*Mart employees weren't driving their own company directly into the red and out of business, either.

The UAW: Successfully squeezing blood from stones and flogging dying horses... for a while.

Shouldn't GM be able to get rid of unproductive workers without going through the union? Maybe they just have to look for harder workers, if they exist. And getting paid double time on Sunday should mean nothing unless they already have a 40-hour week, in which case pay would be time and a half, right?

The whole point of a union is to make it impossible for employers to fire underachieving, overpaid workers. So no, there's no way to get rid of unproductive workers without going through the union, because the UAW has a death grip on the US manufacturers in the Rust Belt (ie, the upper Midwest).

This is why all of the Japanese manufacturers built their US plants in the South - no huge union political base means a merit shop factory is possible (and the only affordable way to build anything).

The UAW simply can't tolerate it, and since they are too stupid to think of a new business model, they will continue to do what they've always done, even if it means killing GM.

 

[Philly]

Last I heard, Wal*Mart employees weren't driving their own company directly into the red and out of business, either.

The UAW: Successfully squeezing blood from stones and flogging dying horses... for a while.

The UAW workers wouldn't drive their companies into the red if the companies gave them what they deserved. The UAW wouldn't drive the company into the red if they only made reasonable demands.

 

[Duke]

The UAW workers wouldn't drive their companies into the red if the companies gave them what they deserved. The UAW wouldn't drive the company into the red if they only made reasonable demands.

It's that second part that's the problem. Note that most of the Japanese companies are successfully running merit shops south of the Mason Dixon line.

 

[Joey D]

Shouldn't GM be able to get rid of unproductive workers without going through the union? Maybe they just have to look for harder workers, if they exist. And getting paid double time on Sunday should mean nothing unless they already have a 40-hour week, in which case pay would be time and a half, right?

They can't though, that's the thing. If you fire one they file a complaint with the union and the union makes the employer re-instate their job. While I was working in the truck division we had a guy break a one off hood for the new GMT-900, lied about doing it and get fired for it because this was his umpteenth offense. Two days later he was back on the job.

And the thing is they are there for 40 hours a week, I refuse to say work, and they still demand to come in on Sunday because they want double time.

 

[TheCracker]

It's that second part that's the problem. Note that most of the Japanese companies are successfully running merit shops south of the Mason Dixon line.

I think there's real mileage in the concept that workers will be both more productive and more happier in their jobs if they feel that they'll get recognition and genuine opportunities for advancement relative to how hard they work, rather then sitting on the Union conveyor belt of advancement. Unfortunately people are lazy and narrow minded.

 

[Duke]

I think there's real mileage in the concept that workers will be both more productive and more happier in their jobs if they feel that they'll get recognition and genuine opportunities for advancement relative to how hard they work, rather then sitting on the Union conveyor belt of advancement. Unfortunately people are lazy and narrow minded.

Here, I'll give you a concrete example of this in action: Andersen Window Corporation.

Andersen Windows is far and away the largest window manufacturer in the US. The run several very large merit shops in the Minneapolis, MN area.

Their production crews are organized into teams. Each team is assigned a workload by management, based upon orders and stockbuilding numbers that management deems profitable. So your team reports for work in the morning, and is assigned a work load of X number of windows of given sizes and types. You start working on windows, and when your team finishes its assignment, you go home! The whole team is paid for a full day's work. If they're good at it, they get to go home in half a day. If they suck, they have to stay late.

95% of the time, they go home early. People who suck get weeded out by their own teammates, if they continually let the crew down. Not only that, but defective windows are still counted in the team's jackpot total, so there is no incentive for workers to pass on bad products just to make a quota. High defect rates in a team are dealt with separately outside the quota system, by bonuses for high-quality teams.

It works great. The workers bust ass to go home early, and they do good work in order to make good bonus money. They win for being good at their jobs. The company wins for developing a highly efficient production team.

 

[Joey D]

I think there's real mileage in the concept that workers will be both more productive and more happier in their jobs if they feel that they'll get recognition and genuine opportunities for advancement relative to how hard they work, rather then sitting on the Union conveyor belt of advancement. Unfortunately people are lazy and narrow minded.

In order to get recognition the UAW workers need to not build a shoddy product. I mean many of you know that I was a die-hard GM fan, but I will probably never own another one again after the experience I had with the Blazer...hell I'll probably never own an American car ever again. I have nothing against the performance aspect of these cars, but I have everything against the build quality. I mean the Blazer is only 4 1/2 years old and there is a ton of rust on it...explain that one to me.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm not against Unions as a concept, but i do think that in this day and age where companies are already highly scrutenized on how they treat their workers through legistration, Unions hold too much influence.

 

[Duke]

Well, yeah. Workers have every right to organize voluntarily in order to make the best deal possible with a given employer. What they have NO right to do is force employers to deal with them, by any other means than cornering the labor market.

 

[YSSMAN]

And hence the reasons why I want GM to give them a big "F-U" and just hire out non-Union workers... There will be three or four people lined up for every one of those jobs, no matter how "stupid" they may be...