UEFA Euro 2020 Qualifying

[PzR Slim]

Abhorrent scenes.

 

[die996]

Jeez, what a bunch of weaklings pretend to play football nowadays.

I still remember some interesting chants. Here are some translated (they sound better in Spanish, I've also skipped some nonsensical sounds):

Spoiler: [NSFW] The Worst Thing You'll Read Today

· "Today you wear black, tomorrow it'll be your family" (translated, heard in dozens of stadiums, mostly against referees)
· "Come and see, that's no goalkeeper, that's a poledancer!" (against GKs, sometimes by the team's own supporters)
· "Tonight go look under your car" (against all kinds of people, specially cruel because under-car bombs were quite a thing in Spain for decades)
· "Step on them, step on them" (by Real Zaragoza to support the police beating some rowdy Chelsea fans)
· "How could Juanito not see the truck? He got squished" (against Real Madrid, mostly by Atlético de Madrid)
· "There was no fault, Dubovsky flopped" (by Sporting Gijón fans against Real Oviedo after Peter Dubovsky died after falling down a waterfall)
· "You got no brother, Antonio, you got no brother" (by FC Barcelona fans after Fernando Martín tragically died)
· "Mijatovic, your son dies tonight" (by Atlético de Madrid, Pedja's son was very ill for quite a while)
· "Ruben Castro, you're not to blame, she was a wh***, you did well" (by Betis to support a player accused of domestic abuse)
· "Eto'o, we've come here to insult you, we don't care you're black" (by Cadiz fans after Eto'o complained about racism in previous matches)
· "Guardiola, why so thin? Why always in Chueca?" (against Pep Guardiola when he was a player, he was accused of doping and some though he is/was a homosexual)
· "Kill them, ETA, kill them" (by Athletic de Bilbao and Osasuna fans, mostly against Real Madrid)
· "We don't want violence, we want them dead, we want all of the Real Madrid dead" (against Real Madrid, mostly by Athletic de Bilbao)
· "Aitor, bastard, give me the knife back" (by Atlético de Madrid after one of his fans stabbed a Real Sociedad fan to death, there're several dedicated to this alone)

And I'm forgetting a lot. Almost every single semi-notable player that has died young has had a chant against the team they played for.

 

[andrea]

I see that the Sofia Ultras are showing their full glory today.

These ignorant smegma do know that Hitler considered that part of Europe to be sub-human, right?

 

[PzR Slim]

@die996 Take you racist, bigoted, homophobic BS elsewhere.

 

[Famine]

Jeez, what a bunch of weaklings pretend to play football nowadays.

I still remember some interesting chants. Here are some translated (they sound better in Spanish, I've also skipped some nonsensical sounds):

Spoiler: [NSFW] The Worst Thing You'll Read Today

· "Today you wear black, tomorrow it'll be your family" (translated, heard in dozens of stadiums, mostly against referees)
· "Come and see, that's no goalkeeper, that's a poledancer!" (against GKs, sometimes by the team's own supporters)
· "Tonight go look under your car" (against all kinds of people, specially cruel because under-car bombs were quite a thing in Spain for decades)
· "Step on them, step on them" (by Real Zaragoza to support the police beating some rowdy Chelsea fans)
· "How could Juanito not see the truck? He got squished" (against Real Madrid, mostly by Atlético de Madrid)
· "There was no fault, Dubovsky flopped" (by Sporting Gijón fans against Real Oviedo after Peter Dubovsky died after falling down a waterfall)
· "You got no brother, Antonio, you got no brother" (by FC Barcelona fans after Fernando Martín tragically died)
· "Mijatovic, your son dies tonight" (by Atlético de Madrid, Pedja's son was very ill for quite a while)
· "Ruben Castro, you're not to blame, she was a wh***, you did well" (by Betis to support a player accused of domestic abuse)
· "Eto'o, we've come here to insult you, we don't care you're black" (by Cadiz fans after Eto'o complained about racism in previous matches)
· "Guardiola, why so thin? Why always in Chueca?" (against Pep Guardiola when he was a player, he was accused of doping and some though he is/was a homosexual)
· "Kill them, ETA, kill them" (by Athletic de Bilbao and Osasuna fans, mostly against Real Madrid)
· "We don't want violence, we want them dead, we want all of the Real Madrid dead" (against Real Madrid, mostly by Athletic de Bilbao)
· "Aitor, bastard, give me the knife back" (by Atlético de Madrid after one of his fans stabbed a Real Sociedad fan to death, there're several dedicated to this alone)

And I'm forgetting a lot. Almost every single semi-notable player that has died young has had a chant against the team they played for.

Either you genuinely think racial and homophobic abuse is okay - and apparently justifiable because other abuse is more personal and targeted - or you're trolling. In either case, seek help.

 

[Dennisch]

but they should be allowed to walk off the pitch and take the victory if there is any more vile abuse.

This is what needs to happen. Just walk off, piss all over the UEFA and their weak cronies. Give England the 3-0 and the 3 points and ban Bulgaria from this and the next tournament qualifiers. They won't learn from weak sanctions.

 

[die996]

Either you genuinely think racial and homophobic abuse is okay - and apparently justifiable because other abuse is more personal and targeted - or you're trolling. In either case, seek help.

I'm just saying that both players and fans from the 21st century wouldn't survive a minute in lower-level football (I still see some crazy stuff in regional leagues) or just 20th century football as a whole. One of the things that gives extra value to pro football players is that they have to be mentally strong too, that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

Almost no sport demands you to sustain such torture and it makes it all the more special. Even the fans of your own team can hurt your career (Thibaut Courtois hasn't played for Real Madrid for a while because the fans are sick of his mistakes and have decided to bully him until he either quits or improves), it can be heartbreaking. Of course stuff like flares, throwing objects to the pitch and mocking someone's death should be off-limits but, c'mon, being able to abstract yourself from a wall of noise should be a must for any pro player.

Next up you'll tell me that we should respect anxious road cyclists and leave them a 20ft-wide piece of road. Nah, man, you are the one that needs to improve and adapt to succeed, the sport's alright.

 

[TS050]

I'm just saying that both players and fans from the 21st century wouldn't survive a minute in lower-level football (I still see some crazy stuff in regional leagues) or just 20th century football as a whole. One of the things that gives extra value to pro football players is that they have to be mentally strong too, that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

Almost no sport demands you to sustain such torture and it makes it all the more special. Even the fans of your own team can hurt your career (Thibaut Courtois hasn't played for Real Madrid for a while because the fans are sick of his mistakes and have decided to bully him until he either quits or improves), it can be heartbreaking. Of course stuff like flares, throwing objects to the pitch and mocking someone's death should be off-limits but, c'mon, being able to abstract yourself from a wall of noise should be a must for any pro player.

Next up you'll tell me that we should respect anxious road cyclists and leave them a 20ft-wide piece of road. Nah, man, you are the one that needs to improve and adapt to succeed, the sport's alright.

Just because players have to be mentally strong doesn’t mean they should accept racial abuse like it’s nothing

 

[Jimlaad43]

I'm just saying that both players and fans from the 21st century wouldn't survive a minute in lower-level football (I still see some crazy stuff in regional leagues) or just 20th century football as a whole. One of the things that gives extra value to pro football players is that they have to be mentally strong too, that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

Almost no sport demands you to sustain such torture and it makes it all the more special. Even the fans of your own team can hurt your career (Thibaut Courtois hasn't played for Real Madrid for a while because the fans are sick of his mistakes and have decided to bully him until he either quits or improves), it can be heartbreaking. Of course stuff like flares, throwing objects to the pitch and mocking someone's death should be off-limits but, c'mon, being able to abstract yourself from a wall of noise should be a must for any pro player.

Next up you'll tell me that we should respect anxious road cyclists and leave them a 20ft-wide piece of road. Nah, man, you are the one that needs to improve and adapt to succeed, the sport's alright.

Either you genuinely think racial and homophobic abuse is okay

It looks like the second one...

 

[die996]

Just because players have to be mentally strong doesn’t mean they should accept racial abuse like it’s nothing

FROM THIS WEEK - Here are some stories from Roberto Carlos (ex-Real Madrid star, one of the best left backs ever).

· "Vicente del Bosque (manager) never made us train Monday mornings because he knew either we wouldn't go or we'd hang around barely doing anything".

· "I wanted most matches to be on Saturday because then I'd be able to fly to the F1 race".

· "During a Sunday where we didn't have to play you'd see 5-6 players from our team on the private flights area".

· "Jose Antonio Camacho (another manager) wanted us to be at the training grounds at 7:00 during the Summer" and he lasted 10 days.

· "Vanderlei Luxemburgo (another manager) removed beer first and then wine from the dining table at hotels" and he lasted 3 months.

Roberto Carlos won the Spanish league 4 times, the Champions League 3 times plus the World Cup and 2 Copas América with that attitude, with that routine. Something tells me the abuse ain't that bad, being a pro player is not the supertough thing some might make you think.

 

[Famine]

I'm just saying that both players and fans from the 21st century wouldn't survive a minute in lower-level football (I still see some crazy stuff in regional leagues) or just 20th century football as a whole.

No, you're now saying that. But is that a good advert for "lower league" football (also, it's nonsense) - that many players actually come through before the top leagues - or 20th Century football? It sounds quite the opposite.

Are you honestly suggesting that racist abuse at a football match is fine because it could be worse than that?

One of the things that gives extra value to pro football players is that they have to be mentally strong too, that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

Why would any fan want any player to die? That's an insane attitude.

This **** does not belong in sport. Any sport. It's not war (remember when war actually stopped for football?), the players aren't pillagers here to slaughter your children and rape your womenfolk. They're sportspeople who may one day represent your team and play part in success.

Something tells me the abuse ain't that bad, being a pro player is not the supertough thing some might make you think.

What does this or any of the stuff about Roberto Carlos have to do with how unacceptable it is to abuse another human for the colour of their skin?


It's just barking mad to look at "fans" making Nazi salutes (hey, anyone 'member when the Nazis declared Slavs to be untermensch? I 'member) and monkey noises, yelling racial abuse and declaring opposition to the Respect campaign against racism, then blame the players for being weaklings...

... while stuffing them 6-0.


Or you're trolling.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Southgate twice asked the players if they want to come off and both times they said no.

England were incredible tonight in the way they handled it, Raheem Sterling got the brunt of the abuse and scored twice.

The Bulgarian manager is in complete denial and said he heard no abuse!

 

[PzR Slim]

I'm just saying that both players and fans from the 21st century wouldn't survive a minute in lower-level football (I still see some crazy stuff in regional leagues) or just 20th century football as a whole. One of the things that gives extra value to pro football players is that they have to be mentally strong too, that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

Almost no sport demands you to sustain such torture and it makes it all the more special. Even the fans of your own team can hurt your career (Thibaut Courtois hasn't played for Real Madrid for a while because the fans are sick of his mistakes and have decided to bully him until he either quits or improves), it can be heartbreaking. Of course stuff like flares, throwing objects to the pitch and mocking someone's death should be off-limits but, c'mon, being able to abstract yourself from a wall of noise should be a must for any pro player.

Next up you'll tell me that we should respect anxious road cyclists and leave them a 20ft-wide piece of road. Nah, man, you are the one that needs to improve and adapt to succeed, the sport's alright.

You sound like a despicable human being. How you can set out to justify any racial abuse in any setting is beyond me.

 

[Touring Mars]

It's pretty insulting to suggest that standing up to vile racist abuse and Nazism is a sign of weakness.

It is all too easy to pontificate about how others ought to react in the face of such abuse, and recommend that they simply shrug it off and ignore it - I'm sure it is not so easy to disregard when such abuse is being levelled at you.

This is also about sending a clear message that this kind of attitude and behaviour is not acceptable in any circumstances - what message does it send out if such behaviour is not challenged?

 

[PzR Slim]

The Bulgarian Prime Minister has said the head of the Bulgarian FA should resign. Good to see, now we need UEFA to take drastic action and ban them from this and the next competition to send a proper message that it is unacceptable for this sort of behaviour to be allowed.

 

[Famine]

The Bulgarian Prime Minister has said the head of the Bulgarian FA should resign. Good to see, now we need UEFA to take drastic action and ban them from this and the next competition to send a proper message that it is unacceptable for this sort of behaviour to be allowed.

Bulgaria's captain, Ivelin Popov, also apparently went over to the crowd in the relevant section at half time and had a go at them.

 

[Dreadmed]

Is there a full quote from Borissov somewhere? The BBC article implies that he only wants their FA chief to get the boot because they got a rollicking;

"I call on Borislav Mihaylov to immediately resign as president of the Bulgarian Football Union," he said.

"After yesterday's shameful loss of the Bulgarian National Team and given the bad results of our football, I ordered to end any relationship with BFU, including financial, until the withdrawal of Borislav Mihaylov from the post."

 

[PzR Slim]

Bulgaria's captain, Ivelin Popov, also apparently went over to the crowd in the relevant section at half time and had a go at them.

Yeah I saw that. Didn't look like he was getting very far with them from the footage. Looked totally exasperated with them. I also wonder what the two black players Bulgaria had on the pitch made of their own 'fans'.

Edit: BBC Sport now saying he has resigned.

 

[Jezza819]

The Bulgarian Prime Minister has said the head of the Bulgarian FA should resign. Good to see, now we need UEFA to take drastic action and ban them from this and the next competition to send a proper message that it is unacceptable for this sort of behaviour to be allowed.

Yeah a 2 year (or UEFA International seasons) ban would hopefully send the message that this sort of inhuman behavior is not going to be tolerated.

 

[andrea]

:lol

 

[Barra333]

that's why "away goals rule" exists, because it should be tougher to play in front of thousands of people that probably want you dead.

You must be in a far different reality to most of us. I always thought that the away challenges were around the fans loudly cheering for the other team, loudly cheering your errors, and just generally being loud. The death part is new to me.
And @Famine already addressed the rest of the BS in your post.

Is there a full quote from Borissov somewhere? The BBC article implies that he only wants their FA chief to get the boot because they got a rollicking;

Hmmm.... that would imply political interference, which should get them suspended anyway. Right?

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Breaking news in the last five minutes.

UEFA have charged Bulgaria for racist behaviour, throwing objects, disrupting national anthem and showing replays on big screen. England have perhaps surprisingly been charged too, for disrupting national anthem and not having enough travelling stewards.

The head of the Bulgarian FA did resign this afternoon, he was forced out.

 

[die996]

It's pretty insulting to suggest that standing up to vile racist abuse and Nazism is a sign of weakness.

It is all too easy to pontificate about how others ought to react in the face of such abuse, and recommend that they simply shrug it off and ignore it - I'm sure it is not so easy to disregard when such abuse is being levelled at you.

This is also about sending a clear message that this kind of attitude and behaviour is not acceptable in any circumstances - what message does it send out if such behaviour is not challenged?

So "standing up to racism" now means to abandon your spot and go cry in a corner? Damn, I was sure it was THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. Back in WW2, the allies should've stayed home instead of, you know, FIGHTING against the bad guys. Most/all field sports only exist as war-like experiences, both for athletes and spectators, don't you have some blood in your veins or is it more like rennet/merengue over there?

The abuse fans can create towards players is what has created some of the best moments in football history, nothing more powerful than an opposing player scoring and telling the whole stadium to shut up. If you take out the context (history & fans), pro football is insanely boring, it's just 22 millionaires trying to kick a ball around.

PS: I played football at a young age, until I was 14. Boy, playing against that one team made mostly of Romani kids was quite the experience. A defender must've put some metal plate up front on his boots, some other kid had a switchblade on him during the game... Y'all would've forfeited the game but we played, only gave notice of the switchblade, won most years and ran like Hell towards the cars and minivans our parents brought us in!

 

[PzR Slim]

So "standing up to racism" now means to abandon your spot and go cry in a corner? Damn, I was sure it was THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. Back in WW2, the allies should've stayed home instead of, you know, FIGHTING against the bad guys. Most/all field sports only exist as war-like experiences, both for athletes and spectators, don't you have some blood in your veins or is it more like rennet/merengue over there?

The abuse fans can create towards players is what has created some of the best moments in football history, nothing more powerful than an opposing player scoring and telling the whole stadium to shut up. If you take out the context (history & fans), pro football is insanely boring, it's just 22 millionaires trying to kick a ball around.

PS: I played football at a young age, until I was 14. Boy, playing against that one team made mostly of Romani kids was quite the experience. A defender must've put some metal plate up front on his boots, some other kid had a switchblade on him during the game... Y'all would've forfeited the game but we played, only gave notice of the switchblade, won most years and ran like Hell towards the cars and minivans our parents brought us in!

You are an incredibly sick person with a very warped view of the world. As others have said, seek help.

 

[Barra333]

There is a HUGE leap from abuse/chants based on on-field activities (past results, choking, lack of skill, comedic misplays etc) to the racial stuff that happened in Bulgaria that you are condoning.

 

[Famine]

So "standing up to racism" now means to abandon your spot and go cry in a corner?

Who did either of those things? England stayed on the pitch and spanked the Bulgaria team.

nothing more powerful than an opposing player scoring and telling the whole stadium to shut up.

England scored six. Sterling scored twice. They must be weaklings crying in a corner.

PS: I played football at a young age, until I was 14. Boy, playing against that one team made mostly of Romani kids was quite the experience. A defender must've put some metal plate up front on his boots, some other kid had a switchblade on him during the game... Y'all would've forfeited the game but we played, only gave notice of the switchblade, won most years and ran like Hell towards the cars and minivans our parents brought us in!

Great. This is again stated like it's a fantastic advert and something sorely absent from the top leagues, but it's just a load of idiots behaving incredibly poorly and pretending it's okay because it's sport.


Again, you're apparently seeking to justify Nazi gestures (from people who would be executed or enslaved by the actual Nazis, as untermensch), racist and homophobic chanting, and the promotion of racism (the "No Respect" shirt, which refers to the anti-racism Respect campaign) because it's sport, and the players are weak if they don't just get on with being abused in their workplace...

Or - more likely - you're trolling.

Still, what about the other fans who pay to be there (and pay for their kids to be there) - you know, the actual fans who support their team, rather than abusing other teams and even their own non-heterosexual, non-white players? Do they just need to put up with it?

 

[PzR Slim]

Seems events from the other night are being taken very seriously by the Bulgarians which is very good to see.

 

[Liquid]

Slovakia 1-1 Wales
Wales 1-1 Croatia

I was at both games. We still have a reasonable chance of automatic qualification; if we win both our remaining games (Azerbaijan (A) and Hungary (H)) and Slovakia do not beat Croatia, Wales finish 2nd in the group.

The draw against Croatia could be priceless. Had they won, they'd be over the line already but now that they need a win against Slovakia to make it mathematically certain, they are more likely to not take any chances and repeat the 4-0 drumming they gave them in September.

It was a delight to see Croatia pass the ball around, they looked so comfortable on the ball and it's easy to see how they made the World Cup final however they were exceptionally dirty and that was a big shame; James was knocked around like a ragdoll and Ampadu was elbow-kneed in the shoulder and back of head 20 seconds into the second half and had to go off. And no cards for Croatia until the end of the game! The ref must be on holiday to Dubrovnik.

There's no doubt in my mind that the dirty physical play was deliberate. At least Modric got what was coming to him when he injured himself whilst collecting a yellow for another reckless tackle.

I wasn't happy with the draw against Slovakia because a win would have made our last two games slightly more comfortable but the draw against Croatia was great. Our two starting CBs Lockyer (Charlton) and Rodon (Swansea) have 12 caps between them and performed magnificently against players like Rebic, Modric and Rakitic.

 

[Touring Mars]

My work colleague has another "pile" of free Scotland tickets, this time for the Kazakhstan game next month.

Given that they hammered us 3-0 earlier in the year, and sitting outside for 2 hours in mid-November in Scotland is depressing enough without also watching Scotland trying to play football, I reckon she may have a hard job shifting them.

 

[Dennisch]

Bulgaria has been sentenced to 2 games in an empty stadium, with one being provisional. The FA has been fined a total of €85000.

That'll teach em.