Understeer FFB

[GODfreyGT5]

in reality to feel the loss of grip by over steering the car in real life is very dificult

I've understeered my 1.3 FF colt a few times, both accelerating round and pretty aggressively slowing into a corner.

Balanced, the wheel goes soo loose, you know exactly when the grip's gone even through powersteering. On slowing the tyres skip and you get a rough judderthrough the wheel, again, you know when it's gone!!

 

[paul loatman]

I don't know how much has changed in the physics and FFB since the GT academy demo, but from my experience using the T500, it felt very realistic. It's not up there with things like rFactor 2 (with correctly adjusted settings), but it's still very impressive. When doing one of the races at Grand Valley with the 370, you could easily feel under or oversteer, even when you came over that small hill in the middle of the circuit you could feel the weight come off the front wheels immediately after the peak while going downhill. It's a huge improvement over GT5.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I think it is funny that the Op is asking about understeer FFB like that is something special or something that was missing from GT5. FFB is there for sure, how well it works depends on the wheel you use and the settings you use. I get plenty of FFB on my CSR Elite wheel, have even had it hurt me a little on a few occasions.

 

[carracerptp]

OK did some testing in GT5.

You can only feel understeer FFB at the extremes it's not very good but you can get it.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

I'm sorry, but only a halfwit will refrain from buying because of something so small like this. But if there is understeer in the game, you will feel it through the force feedback. So you will be buying the game.

 

[panjandrum]

I'm sorry, but only a halfwit will refrain from buying because of something so small like this. But if there is understeer in the game, you will feel it through the force feedback. So you will be buying the game.

Well, I will certainly be buying Gran Turismo 6 even if they haven't implemented understeer in the FFB yet. However by no means is that something small. This is a huge oversight and a major problem with the force feedback in the Gran Turismo series. Not having understeer sensations in the force feedback is crippling for anyone who does real-life motorsports. What it means to me, for example, is never having an accurate idea of how fast I can go into a corner in Gran Turismo, because this sensation which I need, and which is there in many other racing simulators, is completely missing in the GT series. There are other great things about the GT games, which is why I continue to purchase them. For example, GT does a better job on feeling the weight distribution than most other simulators do. But saying that the lack understeer feel is a small issue is, frankly, ignorant. The OP has a valid question here, but I guess we won't know until we play the game.

 

[Johnnypenso]

OK did some testing in GT5.

You can only feel understeer FFB at the extremes it's not very good but you can get it.

This was my feeling too, I'm hoping it's a little improved in GT6. Might be a small thing for some people but it adds to the immersion. If they aren't going to devote resources to sounds, they might as well work on stuff like this

I'm sorry, but only a halfwit will refrain from buying because of something so small like this. But if there is understeer in the game, you will feel it through the force feedback. So you will be buying the game.

I"m sorry but only a halfwit would call other people halfwits for making their own personal buying decisions based on what's important to them, not you. And unless you have extensive experience with GT6 with same equipment the person making the comment is using, you cannot make any claims about understeer FFB in GT6.

 

[Raitziger]

Yes he would of asked...READ IT !!!!!!!!

He knows what FFB is.. he wants to know if GT6 has understeer ffb in it.

l

There is faint but nothing like in Forza. I liked the FFB in the GT6. I have not driven same cars as in the demo and cannot say how much they changed it. Maybe there was not as much suspension dive as in the demo and felt more like GT5 but FFB seems to be smoother and more realistic overall.

 

[mustafur]

Anyone understeer in real life?

The ultra hoppy style understeer FFB is pretty noticable.

 

[jimipitbull]

Oversteer RWD is more fun

 

[skazz]

Its not a deal breaker for me, but I really do wish the game provides more tactile feedback on what the tires are doing than what was in GT5. Don't get me wrong I love the FFB in GT5, but I hope with the new tire model they model the FFB like Forza where the wheel goes slightly slack when the front tires lose grip.

I'm confused... GT5 was doing this since one of the patches after spec II. Have you not played it since then perhaps?

 

[S30Z_Guy]

In GT5 the feeling understeer is pretty accurate to real life compared to my pickup with no power steering and recirculating ball type steering can't compare with the Z and its rack and pinion since I have never understeered in it.

Would expect GT6 to feel even better than 5 with the new suspension and tire model.

Edit - this is with the G25.

 

[panjandrum]

I'm confused... GT5 was doing this since one of the patches after spec II. Have you not played it since then perhaps?

GT5 will lighten the wheel under braking if you lock-up the fronts. If you use "power assist" steering, you will often also get a false sense of the steering-wheel lightening as you try to correct quickly for entering a turn too fast (the wheel lightens ANY time you turn it quickly). However, neither of these things is accurate understeer modeling, not even close. Now, the amount of "understeer feedback" you get, in a good sim, should vary by car from the dangerously-dead "I don't know I'm understeering until I hit something!" (Toyota Prius) to the super-tactile "I just lost 1% of my front-end grip!" (Porsche 911). At any rate, even with the most tactile of cars, GT5 never gave ANY real understeer feedback except on full-lockup of the fronts under breaking with ABS off. (The only way you'll probably understand what I'm going on about it to experience it in a real car. In my Porsche, for example, I can tell, by the feel of the steering wheel, exactly what amount of grip is still available to the front tires, even when driving in a straight line if conditions change sufficiently. The wheel is lighter or heavier in my hands depending on speed, tire temperature, road surface, weather conditions, steering angle, etc…) GT4 & 5 didn't do this, period, on any wheel I've used (DFP, G25, G27, Fanatec GTR3(? - the orange one, my previous wheel), Thrustmaster T500 (my current wheel).

I'm very eager to get my copy of GT6 and see if there have been any improvements in this area.

 

[Dodzzz]

I usually just use my eyes to feel the understeer.. if I get closer.. and closer.. and closer to the wall.. then I'm definitely understeering

 

[Boiliehead]

GT5 will lighten the wheel under braking if you lock-up the fronts. If you use "power assist" steering, you will often also get a false sense of the steering-wheel lightening as you try to correct quickly for entering a turn too fast (the wheel lightens ANY time you turn it quickly). However, neither of these things is accurate understeer modeling, not even close. Now, the amount of "understeer feedback" you get, in a good sim, should vary by car from the dangerously-dead "I don't know I'm understeering until I hit something!" (Toyota Prius) to the super-tactile "I just lost 1% of my front-end grip!" (Porsche 911). At any rate, even with the most tactile of cars, GT5 never gave ANY real understeer feedback except on full-lockup of the fronts under breaking with ABS off. (The only way you'll probably understand what I'm going on about it to experience it in a real car. In my Porsche, for example, I can tell, by the feel of the steering wheel, exactly what amount of grip is still available to the front tires, even when driving in a straight line if conditions change sufficiently. The wheel is lighter or heavier in my hands depending on speed, tire temperature, road surface, weather conditions, steering angle, etc…) GT4 & 5 didn't do this, period, on any wheel I've used (DFP, G25, G27, Fanatec GTR3(? - the orange one, my previous wheel), Thrustmaster T500 (my current wheel).

I'm very eager to get my copy of GT6 and see if there have been any improvements in this area.

Yes I'm just going to have to suck it in see

 

[georgetigra]

I have thousands kilometers in gt5 on my ff tigra and I can tell you that you feel the understeer ffb in my DFGT...
You feel the Same "Light wheel" like in real life.. Is not perfect but is close to real.. When you are in the top of the turn and you have to accel, if or when Lost the grip from the front you feel it in the wheel.... Sorry for my poor English...

 

[TheDabbinDave]

FFB? What does this mean? Either way, you can tune your car's suspension to where understeer is reduced on nonexistent, so I don't see how this would influence your decision to purchase the game. Whatever floats your boat, though.

Are you serious? You don't know way "Force Feedback" is?

 

[maciakba]

in real life you can feel understeer on wheels very well only in wet conditions in dry condition it is not possible to feel it by steering wheel, thats why it is not in Gran turismo games just go out with your real car and try do 90 degree turn in speed more than 50km/h

you will feel nothing by wheel

 

[huskeR32]

in real life you can feel understeer on wheels very well only in wet conditions in dry condition it is not possible to feel it by steering wheel, thats why it is not in Gran turismo games just go out with your real car and try do 90 degree turn in speed more than 50km/h

you will feel nothing by wheel

 

[jjaisli]

in real life you can feel understeer on wheels very well only in wet conditions in dry condition it is not possible to feel it by steering wheel, thats why it is not in Gran turismo games just go out with your real car and try do 90 degree turn in speed more than 50km/h

you will feel nothing by wheel

Completely false.

 

[Dwight_C]

Are you serious? You don't know way "Force Feedback" is?

Sure I do. I just didn't make the correlation between FFB and Force Feed Back. The acronym went right over my head.

 

[panjandrum]

in real life you can feel understeer on wheels very well only in wet conditions in dry condition it is not possible to feel it by steering wheel, thats why it is not in Gran turismo games just go out with your real car and try do 90 degree turn in speed more than 50km/h

you will feel nothing by wheel

The problem here is that there is a HUGE difference between cars. Trust me, a GOOD performance car will communicate with you just as much in the dry as in the wet. I can tell the difference in grip just between between different paving surfaces in the Porsches I daily drive and race (autocross and ice-x). But I've driven cars with absolutely ZERO feedback whatsoever, and it sounds like your car(s) fall into this category. Try some cars known for being great "drivers cars" and you'll see what we mean.

 

[maciakba]

The problem here is that there is a HUGE difference between cars. Trust me, a GOOD performance car will communicate with you just as much in the dry as in the wet. I can tell the difference in grip just between between different paving surfaces in the Porsches I daily drive and race (autocross and ice-x). But I've driven cars with absolutely ZERO feedback whatsoever, and it sounds like your car(s) fall into this category. Try some cars known for being great "drivers cars" and you'll see what we mean.

maybe you are right I got just small old hatchback and never driven other cars

 

[panjandrum]

In my initial tests, only 4 races so far and in the FF car they force you to buy (can't remember the name, some little econobox), but they do seem to have implemented understeer "lightness" FFB to at least some degree. There is a lot more testing to be done, but my initial impression is that things are looking better in this area.

 

[maciakba]

but you can hear understeer... it sounds same like in my car

 

[panjandrum]

OK guys, bad news on this front: PD has implemented understeer feedback, but as far as I can tell it is for FF cars only. I haven't tried many 4wd cars yet, but every FR, MR, or RR car I've tried thus far provides real understeer feedback ONLY under braking. Going into a corner too hot with too great a steering angle produces zero change in feedback. Bummer. I can't understand why PD can't get this right...

@maciakba: IRL a good performance car will tell you are beginning to lose grip (and how much) before the tires squeal... It's something you have to experience to understand I suppose. Certain cars are famous for it, and are referred to as "tactile" or "communicating with the driver" or "driver's cars", etc. etc. Porsche's are the obvious example, and the one I'm most familiar with. The old saying about that 911; that you can tell if you ran over a quarter or two-dimes-and-a-nickel: that gets the point across fairly well.

It would be great to see this properly implemented in GT6 someday.