Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[Lil Quay Quay]

F1 needs to be slowed down to SuperFormula speeds. Which I do believe is the direction they are heading… Someone will correct me if thats false…

 

[lilcat89]

I sometimes genuinely wonder how many people are aware that Lewis Hamilton had a career before Mercedes.

I guess that rookie year next to Alonso, practically driving Alonso to walk away after a year. Then, he almost won the Championship that year and won it the next year.

 

[Greycap]

I sometimes genuinely wonder how many people are aware that Lewis Hamilton had a career before Mercedes.

He did, and it wasn't THAT remarkable to be honest. Nearly a champion in his rookie year in what was very probably the best car of the field and enjoying enough preferential treatment from the team to drive Alonso out, then a champion in his second year in what was certainly the best car, and then relatively nowhere for the next four years as the car advantage was lost. Sounds very Villeneuve-ish actually, and that's one guy nobody rates just about at all if I've ever seen one.

During the three years he was paired with Button at McLaren, Button actually scored more points so either he's very underrated or Hamilton is overrated. Probably a bit of both.

To put the Mercedes into perspective: in an alternative timeline with a really subpar driver in place of Hamilton, we would now be celebrating Nico Rosberg and Valtteri Bottas as two of the all time greats, equalling Senna, Lauda etc. with three world championships each. Or who knows, Rosberg might have eight.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Beating a world champion in your rookie year, and being a world champion in 2 years isn’t that remarkable. Got it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The 'only won because he had the best car' argument is the weakest argument that can be levelled at ANY driver. It's very rare for that to not be the case.

There was also no luck involved in it, Mercedes knew they had a good thing coming, Niki Lauda was instrumental in pushing that and it's not like Lewis hadn't been backed by Mercedes for almost his entire career (via McLaren who were basically a Mercedes works team until the end of 2009).

Mercedes also weren't entirely dominant in the way people remember. Sure the first 2 seasons it was all them, but Lewis certainly didn't have that all his own way regardless of championship results. 2016 was the implosion of that and then Ferrari and Red Bull were resurgent. Heck, Mercedes probably only had the best car over a whole season 4 times in the hybrid era, '14-'16, and '20.

 

[Veinz]

Edit: nvm probably not that unpopular now that I think about it

 

[lilcat89]

Here's another one of mine.

The GT3 category will be dead by 2026. Now that Audi is pulling their customer racing program at the end of the year, I believe other manufacturers will follow in the coming years. There will be the few perennial manufacturers like Porsche, Corvette, and the like, but the other, smaller companies will walk away.

 

[Jimlaad43]

That's more of a prediction than an opinion tbh

 

[lilcat89]

That's more of a prediction than an opinion tbh

It does sound like a prediction, but a lot of people will disagree. Audi is just the first domino to fall.

 

[m355y]

Re: Hamilton, I said it was unpopular!! I know it’s not most people’s view hence, you know, posting it on here.

 

[m355y]

Firstly, Ricciardo and Massa do not belong in that group. Full stop.

Secondly, what would your opinion of Alonso, Vettel or Button be had they signed with Mercedes and won six titles? How would anyone from that group rise up above the rest and stand out?

Ricciardo was the best driver on the grid in 2014 and 2016, so at that point in time he did. I said Massa was in the tier below so no, he does not, that’s true.

My opinion would be pretty much the same of Alonso or Vettel had they been the one that made the move. Vettel was incredible in the blown diffuser days but proved afterwards that he wasn’t maybe the most adaptable, his peak level was as good as anyone’s but he couldn’t sustain that when knocked off the crest of his wave. Alonso, for my money, is probably the best of the three and I’ll die on that hill. His problem was always his, erm, potential to be disruptive and burn bridges, but as a racer he’s amazing. But he’s not perfect. Massa gave him a tough time in qualifying as did Trulli and he didn’t comprehensively beat Button, nor did Lewis.

Bottom line is, since Lewis signed for Merc in 2013, Alonso has won two races (both that year) while Lewis has racked up title after title after title. Do I think Alonso is a worse driver than Hamilton? Personally no.

 

[GingerBredMan]

It does sound like a prediction, but a lot of people will disagree. Audi is just the first domino to fall.

It felt like Audi leaving was more split between their commitment to F1 and two other companies under the VW umbrella having GT3/GTP programs (Porsche, Lamborghini). With WEC committed to GT3s starting next year, they’ll probably be around for a while

 

[toastet]

Also Audi without a R8 successor probably completely out of GT3 very soon. No need for customer backing anymore while I'm sure next years LM24 entry will be backed.

 

[lilcat89]

It felt like Audi leaving was more split between their commitment to F1 and two other companies under the VW umbrella having GT3/GTP programs (Porsche, Lamborghini). With WEC committed to GT3s starting next year, they’ll probably be around for a while

Audi's decision is completely down to funding the F1 project, but I have a feeling that GT3 will morph into GTE, especially as costs keep climbing. It doesn't help that SRO is starting to turn focus slightly towards GT4 as the IGTC field count hasn't come back from Covid. It will be interesting to watch how the category evolves.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Audi's decision is completely down to funding the F1 project, but I have a feeling that GT3 will morph into GTE, especially as costs keep climbing. It doesn't help that SRO is starting to turn focus slightly towards GT4 as the IGTC field count hasn't come back from Covid. It will be interesting to watch how the category evolves.

GTE? No chance of that. More likely GT3 will die and be replaced by GT4

 

[lilcat89]

GTE? No chance of that. More likely GT3 will die and be replaced by GT4

I meant morphing into GTE as going in the same direction as GTE. GT4 is almost certainly the replacement, until it gets out of hand like always.

 

[Com Fox]

Isn't that why SRO remade GT2, just incase GT3 fell off? So it seems people are aware GT3 is in a bit of a danger area (especially since Manufacturer involvement is becoming more and more like a deciding factor)

 

[RACECAR]

Here's another one of mine.

The GT3 category will be dead by 2026. Now that Audi is pulling their customer racing program at the end of the year, I believe other manufacturers will follow in the coming years. There will be the few perennial manufacturers like Porsche, Corvette, and the like, but the other, smaller companies will walk away.

I'm not sure using the manufacturer that already had issues with their own customer racing program (Look at the fallout with the cancelled LMDH program and WRT) is a good example, especially when they also have a F1 program they are directing funds to as well.

 

[lilcat89]

I'm not sure using the manufacturer that already had issues with their own customer racing program (Look at the fallout with the cancelled LMDH program and WRT) is a good example, especially when they also have a F1 program they are directing funds to as well.

I think Audi is a pretty good example, but lets look at a few more that were in GT3 at the beginning. Nissan...gone(disappeared after Darren Cox left Nismo), Bentley...gone(M-Sport agreement lapsed IIRC), Lexus...only jumped in in 2016 and only supported in US and Japan (but for how long will that continue). I'm sure there are more. Mercedes doesn't have a successor to the AMG GT, which is now 8 years old by now, even though it is still the class benchmark. How much longer will they support it? Lamborghini has stated as well that there will no customer LMDH cars because they aren't large enough to support more, so where does that put their GT3 customer support. BMW, for example, has built 3 separate base model GT3 cars in the 12 years that GT3 has been around. The global financial climate is always changing and I don't think that is will get better in the next 5 years. Another part to consider is that these cars are 500k to buy with a running budget of around 1-5 million per year, depending on the championship. They aren't cheap and will only get more expensive. A few teams that run GT3 cars (especially in Germany) have bought LMP3 cars and there are new LMP3 national championships running and having decent and growing grid numbers. For the new GT3 cars (Ford and GM), Ford has a pretty long history of jumping in, staying for 2-3 years and disappearing, especially in sportscar racing. Corvette will stay until the end, but they waited 10 years to jump in. The only Corvettes were built by Callaway and were allowed to run in Europe, per GM.

 

[RACECAR]

I think Audi is a pretty good example, but lets look at a few more that were in GT3 at the beginning. Nissan...gone(disappeared after Darren Cox left Nismo), Bentley...gone(M-Sport agreement lapsed IIRC), Lexus...only jumped in in 2016 and only supported in US and Japan (but for how long will that continue). I'm sure there are more. Mercedes doesn't have a successor to the AMG GT, which is now 8 years old by now, even though it is still the class benchmark. How much longer will they support it? Lamborghini has stated as well that there will no customer LMDH cars because they aren't large enough to support more, so where does that put their GT3 customer support. BMW, for example, has built 3 separate base model GT3 cars in the 12 years that GT3 has been around. The global financial climate is always changing and I don't think that is will get better in the next 5 years. Another part to consider is that these cars are 500k to buy with a running budget of around 1-5 million per year, depending on the championship. They aren't cheap and will only get more expensive. A few teams that run GT3 cars (especially in Germany) have bought LMP3 cars and there are new LMP3 national championships running and having decent and growing grid numbers. For the new GT3 cars (Ford and GM), Ford has a pretty long history of jumping in, staying for 2-3 years and disappearing, especially in sportscar racing. Corvette will stay until the end, but they waited 10 years to jump in. The only Corvettes were built by Callaway and were allowed to run in Europe, per GM.

Technically, Nissan never left GT3 despite the LMP1 debacle (How else would they have built the 2018 GT-R GT3 Nismo and the subsequent 2022 Evo? That wasn't built by someone else, that was built BY Nismo). Its not a major presence in Europe but neither is their fellow Japanese makers Honda and Lexus (The ladder of whom is actually in the process of developing a new GT3 car now with input and feedback from the North American arm) so no they are not completely out of GT3.

Now yes, Bentley themselves is more or less gone from racing (Unless we find that one stubborn team clinging on to the GT3 car) and have seemingly no plans but other then them, Audi is the only one we can very plainly say is out period. I again find them not the best example because their circumstances also involve serious management issues that can likely be traced back to the disaster that was their North American support and then the eventual cancellation of the LMDH program (despite promising longtime Audi customer WRT that they would be the ones chosen for it) and followed by their commitment to Formula 1. Their situation is too extraordinary to apply to anyone else despite also involving cost (Hell, what doesn't involve cost right now thanks to inflation?), especially to the Japanese makes that simply have never had a product that's made any actual and consistent headway in Europe (Spare the whole GT Academy thing with RJN Motorsports and the few victories they managed) so I feel Audi's departure shouldn't be the starting Death Blow to GT3s you appear to be indicating. If anything, I feel the moment Porsche (Effectively, the definition of customer racing) leave would be when we should really start to worry about the category considering they are both supporting GT3 customers AND now LMDH/LMH customers as well.

 

[lilcat89]

Technically, Nissan never left GT3 despite the LMP1 debacle (How else would they have built the 2018 GT-R GT3 Nismo and the subsequent 2022 Evo? That wasn't built by someone else, that was built BY Nismo). Its not a major presence in Europe but neither is their fellow Japanese makers Honda and Lexus (The ladder of whom is actually in the process of developing a new GT3 car now with input and feedback from the North American arm) so no they are not completely out of GT3.

Now yes, Bentley themselves is more or less gone from racing (Unless we find that one stubborn team clinging on to the GT3 car) and have seemingly no plans but other then them, Audi is the only one we can very plainly say is out period. I again find them not the best example because their circumstances also involve serious management issues that can likely be traced back to the disaster that was their North American support and then the eventual cancellation of the LMDH program (despite promising longtime Audi customer WRT that they would be the ones chosen for it) and followed by their commitment to Formula 1. Their situation is too extraordinary to apply to anyone else despite also involving cost (Hell, what doesn't involve cost right now thanks to inflation?), especially to the Japanese makes that simply have never had a product that's made any actual and consistent headway in Europe (Spare the whole GT Academy thing with RJN Motorsports and the few victories they managed) so I feel Audi's departure shouldn't be the starting Death Blow to GT3s you appear to be indicating. If anything, I feel the moment Porsche (Effectively, the definition of customer racing) leave would be when we should really start to worry about the category considering they are both supporting GT3 customers AND now LMDH/LMH customers as well.

GT3 has been Audi's main pillar for their customer program and Audi has been a main stalwart since the SRO's move to GT3. I certainly don't think that the category will die tomorrow, but I think Audi is definitely a warning shot. I'm honestly interested in how much money is tied up in the GT3 program, between retaining drivers and supplying spares and the trackside support between all their regions where they have customers. I never said my opinion was popular, it's just a feeling I have.

 

[sillybilly]

F1 needs to be slowed down to SuperFormula speeds. Which I do believe is the direction they are heading… Someone will correct me if thats false…

I agree 100%

so many slower categories have better racing - the lower performance is cheaper for teams to achieve in salary caps - the drivers can have more affect because there's a bit more room for error with longer braking zones, lower corner speeds etc.

One more thing, driving er pilot position: it was clever from aerodynamic and weight distribution to raise the feet in the 90s but now I think it should be positioned a little more like a car driver again. Feet on the floor, seat base set a minimum reference height above floor level and a limit to the angle of recline.

The drivers heads would be higher and they would be protected with the halo (or a safety screen ),
better visibility for the drivers, the safety cell could be shortened to help reduce the size of the cars.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The 'only won because he had the best car' argument is the weakest argument that can be levelled at ANY driver. It's very rare for that to not be the case.

There was also no luck involved in it, Mercedes knew they had a good thing coming, Niki Lauda was instrumental in pushing that and it's not like Lewis hadn't been backed by Mercedes for almost his entire career (via McLaren who were basically a Mercedes works team until the end of 2009).

Mercedes also weren't entirely dominant in the way people remember. Sure the first 2 seasons it was all them, but Lewis certainly didn't have that all his own way regardless of championship results. 2016 was the implosion of that and then Ferrari and Red Bull were resurgent. Heck, Mercedes probably only had the best car over a whole season 4 times in the hybrid era, '14-'16, and '20.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The 'only won because he had the best car' argument is the weakest argument that can be levelled at ANY driver. It's very rare for that to not be the case.

I'm not sure I'd say "Only won", he has won races in not-the-best car, but it's no weaker an argument than stating he's the GOAT because he has 7 titles or 103 wins.

When you say ANY driver, do you mean in F1, or motorsport in general? If you mean F1, I'd probably agree, the most successful drivers in F1 have the best cars. If you mean wider motorsport in general, then I think there's a few other things to take into account. Drivers that across their career demonstrate winning ability in different disciplines, driving different types of machinery, for different teams, at different circuits, probably with some form of performance equalisation, have demonstrated a much stronger claim to being the best despite their equipment and not because of it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm not sure I'd say "Only won", he has won races in not-the-best car, but it's no weaker an argument than stating he's the GOAT because he has 7 titles or 103 wins.

When you say ANY driver, do you mean in F1, or motorsport in general? If you mean F1, I'd probably agree, the most successful drivers in F1 have the best cars. If you mean wider motorsport in general, then I think there's a few other things to take into account. Drivers that across their career demonstrate winning ability in different disciplines, driving different types of machinery, for different teams, at different circuits, probably with some form of performance equalisation, have demonstrated a much stronger claim to being the best despite their equipment and not because of it.

It was aimed at F1 specifically, as that is typically where the argument is argued the most.

 

[Veinz]

The levels of copium within NASCAR must be at an all time high, since they need to constantly remind the viewer how similar the cup and supercars are.

 

[Com Fox]

The levels of copium within NASCAR must be at an all time high, since they need to constantly remind the viewer how similar the cup and supercars are.

The whole stage system and "win = your in" for the Playoffs is just a massive turn off for me no matter how much they try in other areas to be appealing.

If they want to put more emphasis on winning races while also rewarding consistency, just rework the points system so that 1st gets more points. They overcomplicated things which have an easier solution to the problem they think they have.

 

[Liquid]

If they want to put more emphasis on winning races while also rewarding consistency, just rework the points system so that 1st gets more points. They overcomplicated things which have an easier solution to the problem they think they have.

NASCAR's problem is that it has to fit in with other North American-style sports leagues, hence this ridiculous insistance on the play-off system.

 

[Com Fox]

NASCAR's problem is that it has to fit in with other North American-style sports leagues, hence this ridiculous insistance on the play-off system.

I'm not entirely against play-offs in general. I would rather without but it isn't a deal breaker for me.

What is, is the mechanic of winning a race means you automatically qualify for the playoff or moving on to the next stage without any need to be consistent (especially in a series where races can be a giant cluster) and then they tried to solve drivers not needing to care after winning 1 race by introducing the stage system and stage points for when you make it to the playoffs which now just gets unnecessarily complicated.

If they just drop the stages and win = In mentality and just reworked the points given out if they want 1st to have more weight than I would be completely fine even with the playoffs

 

[m355y]

Yeah the NASCAR system sucks. In theory you could win 20 races and still finish fifth in the championship with a bad run in the play offs, or you could sneak into the play offs with one lucky race win and then take the whole title ahead of that guy who won 20 races but got punted out of the decisive play-off race...admittedly that has never happened because luckily the best drivers over the season usually continue that form into the play offs.

I'm all for making sure a motorsport series is exciting as a sport and compromising a little bit of purity for it - I sometimes wish F1 would remember it's meant to be entertaining - but NASCAR is way too far and it's a shame because I enjoy watching it and even like the stage format these days.