US on the door step of martial law?

[Rallywagon]

So, I'm curious to know if anyone is tracking this. To date, DHS and the Border Patrol have stocked up on MRAPs, M113's, and literally billions of rounds of ammo. DHS and FEMA have been staging mock attack and martial law exercises and many former DHS agents have come out and admitted that DHS is working on staging an actual martial law event in the US. Do you suppose that the these are simply harmless training exercises as FEMA and DHS present it, or are those former agents and conspiracy theorists closer to the mark? Unfortunately, I can't help but feel, considering events within America, as well as around the world, that the CT's might actually be on to something this time. Let's discuss.

And just for some fuel for the fire...

 

[Keef]

Alex Jones will tell you "yes"., Myself, a libertarian kid from Ohio who is just trying to pay for school so he can get a decent job and doesn't have time to worry about it much, will tell you that it's totally plausible. I won't say that politicians are trying to unnerve society on purpose, though they don't give us much reason not to believe that, but a scenario such as this is totally plausible.

 

[Dotini]

I'm not tracking this, although it's hard to avoid knowing that DHS is purchasing unbelievable quantities of ammunition.

There are several possible reasons that would justify imposition of martial law across the nation:

Extraterrestrial
- Solar "Carrington Event" that knocks out nationwide power grid. Probability of this is 100% over time.
- Major cometary or asteroid impact that devastates a wide area.
- Alien invasion

Terrestrial
- Eruption of Yellowstone caldera volcano covering 75% of nation with lava and ash. Probability near 100% over time.
- Simultaneous major earthquakes across the country
- Sudden onset of Ice Age
- Collapse of financial system/currency
- Nuclear or EMP attack by a foreign nation
- Major terrorist attack on a national scale
- coup d'etat

Please feel free to add to list. Note that some of the events on my list could be staged, or faked.

 

[ClydeYellow]

- Solar "Carrington Event" that knocks out nationwide power grid. Probability of this is 100% over time.

A Carrington-like event would hardly be a justification for a state of emergency. Many paint a high-energy solar flare hitting Earth as something that would end civilization as we know it, but it would barely damage some computers and bring down communication networks for a couple of days. It would cause massive economical losses due to the latter, but it would be far from a cataclysmic event.

Also: the collapse of the financial system wouldn't occur overnight, and a coup d'etat in the US would likely fail for several reasons. As for a major terrorist attack on a national scale, I see it as unlikely, as there's no terrorist organization with the capability to pull it off (and besides, the USA aren't exactly the smallest nation to attack).

P.S: as far as I know, FEMA isn't part of the US Armed Forces and don't have anything to do with martial law.

 

[Rallywagon]

@Keef The three I'll concede are the bottom for sure, and quote easily staged. I think of the extraterrestrial, I'm not sure that any of them would be a reason to impose martial law, only on the basis that if a meteor hit and and did the kind of devastation that would enact martial law, we would probably be on our way to extinction. A "sun spot" that would be strong enough to take out our infrastructure, would certainly take out the militaries I'd argue that the best they would be lucky to manage would be short range comms. If, the radios and their signals weren't affected. Aliens though, would be a wild card, depending on their reason. However, I maintain on that subject that if they could travel that far, then they could just as easily wipe us out without us even knowing it was them. It sure as hell wouldn't be like Independence Day. So I believe any alien encounters we have on earth, will likely be of a neutral or peaceful nature.
That however, isn't exactly what I am getting at. My concern is actually a bit more sinister in nature. I am more concerned with an unwarranted martial law being enacted. That our government might stage some sort of coup against it's citizens. Unfortunately I can think of a number of reason why. Most in the plausible conspiracy range. Unfortunately there seem to be coincidences between these theories and the actions of our government.

P.S: as far as I know, FEMA isn't part of the US Armed Forces and don't have anything to do with martial law.

On the contrary, FEMA will be a very important and used when martial law is enacted.
http://www.training.fema.gov/emiweb/edu/docs/TopOff4_afteraction_report2007.pdf
In the above link, you can see that FEMA is very involved in the coordination of "assets."
Here is another article on TOPOFF 3, which seems well researched and everything has citation.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO504B.html
FEMA does a far amount of coordination for NEP as well, not to mention the new conspiracy, the FEMA death camps.

And then our fearless leader gives a lovely address that Rachel Maddow picked through well.



Considering the strange coincidences of "training for an attack" and actually having an attack occur, Such as the Boston Marathon bombing and the 7/7 London Subway bombing, I could easily see another TOPOFF becoming the actual staging of a large scale, multi nation martial law event.

 

[Liquid]

Who would instigate this?

Let's pretend that the laws of the land still apply in a martial law situation. As far as I know, the US Army has no authority or jurisdiction for action on US soil, or maybe just the continental United States. It's the National Guard who would "be allowed" to conduct something like this.

 

[Carlos]

All what I've seen and read; are there really that much new FEMA camps? I find it really strange a company like FEMA is doing all this..

 

[BobK]

Who would instigate this?

Let's pretend that the laws of the land still apply in a martial law situation. As far as I know, the US Army has no authority or jurisdiction for action on US soil, or maybe just the continental United States. It's the National Guard who would "be allowed" to conduct something like this.

You're right. The Army don't have the authority to act within the US's borders. Didn't seem to stop them much in 1861-1865 though.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Does no one see this as preparation for anything to do with Russia/Ukrainian Crisis/China?


If things started to go south with a different nation, it would be totally normal to stockpile munitions.

"Better to have and not need, than need and not have."

 

[Zenith]

Does no one see this as preparation for anything to do with Russia/Ukrainian Crisis/China?


If things started to go south with a different nation, it would be totally normal to stockpile munitions.

"Better to have and not need, than need and not have."

The issue is not the US Gov't stockpiling weaponry, it is the specific agencies that are. FEMA and the DHS are not who you would see having anything to do with international threats.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The issue is not the US Gov't stockpiling weaponry, it is the specific agencies that are. FEMA and the DHS are not who you would see having anything to do with international threats.

Homeland Security, right? Then, yes, I could see it. FEMA, in a very rare case - Katrina, for example.

 

[Zenith]

Homeland Security, right? Then, yes, I could see it. FEMA, in a very rare case - Katrina, for example.

DHS is not a military group. It is organizations such as the TSA and other groups that deal with travelers in airports and some other travel and shipping cases inside the United States. Similarly, FEMA is not supposed to be worried about military type problems. That's the Coast Guard's job. FEMA is responsible for offering shelter and aid to areas affected by disaster.

Neither agency would ever get involved with an international exchange such as the Ukraine crisis, or military action with Russia or China.

Edit: As far as this thread is concerned, it's pretty common for some extreme anti-gov't nutjobs to inflate numbers and relabel exercises to suit their agenda.

 

[Blitz24]

How is Katrina an international threat?

 

[Grayfox]

How is Katrina an international threat?

Ever seen the move "the core".

One of America's enemies has a hurricane machine and they used it to make Katrina.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

No, I meant that there was rioting after Katrina, which FEMA couldn't control. That's kinda what FEMA (Federal Emergency...) Is there for, disaster response.


And, if DHS isn't protecting people from international threats, what is it doing? They prevent bomb threats from becoming bomb explosions, right? What if the people with the bomb are armed...? It's quite probable...

 

[Blitz24]

Ever seen the move "the core".

One of America's enemies has a hurricane machine and they used it to make Katrina.

A search for a movie called "The Core" resulted in a 2003 disaster film. This was 2 years before Katrina. Unless the film you are referencing is not a mass-market one.

 

[Zenith]

No, I meant that there was rioting after Katrina, which FEMA couldn't control. That's kinda what FEMA (Federal Emergency...) Is there for, disaster response.

Once again, Coast Guard. FEMA probably does a little but that would not justify the alleged tens of thousands of rounds ammunition, MRAPs, and Martial Law drills.

And, if DHS isn't protecting people from international threats, what is it doing? They prevent bomb threats from becoming bomb explosions, right? What if the people with the bomb are armed...? It's quite probable...

See first point.

Life Pro Tip: Call of Duty and movies are inaccurate portrayals of real life.

 

[Grayfox]

A search for a movie called "The Core" resulted in a 2003 disaster film. This was 2 years before Katrina. Unless the film you are referencing is not a mass-market one.

It was one where the US made an "earthquake machine" because they learnt that an enemy had one and they had to use it on them before the enemy could used it on them.
The machine ends up stoppingthe core from spinning which resulted in the magnetic field weakening on earth.

Which was in 2003

 

[homeforsummer]

A Carrington-like event would hardly be a justification for a state of emergency. Many paint a high-energy solar flare hitting Earth as something that would end civilization as we know it, but it would barely damage some computers and bring down communication networks for a couple of days. It would cause massive economical losses due to the latter, but it would be far from a cataclysmic event.

Not cataclysmic, no, but you're underplaying the consequences of such an event. Far from just knocking out a few computers a powerful event could knock out power to the entire country.

A particularly damaging one could take many weeks or even months to repair - and during that time escalating events could be quite problematic. Hospital generators would last maybe a week. Availability of fuel and food would dwindle within a matter of days, particularly as people start to panic-buy things. Society doesn't really know how to operate without power and being without it for weeks could cause far more problems than just communications being off-line for a few days.

Depends on the severity of course. But I could see martial law being enforced during larger events to stem widespread panic.

 

[Dotini]

Not cataclysmic, no, but you're underplaying the consequences of such an event. Far from just knocking out a few computers a powerful event could knock out power to the entire country.

A particularly damaging one could take many weeks or even months to repair - and during that time escalating events could be quite problematic. Hospital generators would last maybe a week. Availability of fuel and food would dwindle within a matter of days, particularly as people start to panic-buy things. Society doesn't really know how to operate without power and being without it for weeks could cause far more problems than just communications being off-line for a few days.

Depends on the severity of course. But I could see martial law being enforced during larger events to stem widespread panic.

http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/06may_carringtonflare/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/14/homeland-security-takes-on-the-carrington-event/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/
http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/

Damaged transformers can take weeks, months or even years to replace.

 

[niky]

That's pretty much what I was thinking about. It already takes months to replace a single transformer. If a significant portion of the grid went down, you have further issues... such as the lack of manufacturing capacity to build a large number of replacements. And that manufacturing capacity won't have power or telecommunications, either. I don't think you could replace the whole system in less than a decade.

-

Just one EMP and you can basically say goodbye to 99% of the (formerly) United States.

-

I doubt anyone would use it against the US, though, as to do so would cause a global economic meltdown on an unprecedented scale.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I doubt anyone would use it against the US, though, as to do so would cause a global economic meltdown on an unprecedented scale.

One of the only reasons that the US hasn't more strongly resisted China's continuing acquisition of more and more of their bonds.

It actually gives the US much greater strength in world trade at a time when their stock is a little low with the rest of the world and also makes it less likely that China would aid in their destruction. Apart from MAD, but that defies most limits of reason anyway.

 

[Dotini]

Just one EMP and you can basically say goodbye to 99% of the (formerly) United States.

I doubt anyone would use it against the US, though, as to do so would cause a global economic meltdown on an unprecedented scale.

North Korea is working assiduously on atomic bombs and long range missiles. Too much rides on the continuity of the US government and the continuity of the US economy to allow any rogue agency to detonate a nuke high above the US. That's why we have anti-missile systems in place. If anti-missile systems could not reliably prevent such an attack, the US would undoubtedly preemptively neutralize it; any laws, treaties, morality, or other people's human rights notwithstanding.

It would be a great triumph for NK to bring the US and the rest of the world down to its level or below. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How is Katrina an international threat?

Just say the name out loud - "Katrina". It's obviously foreign.

 

[Agent_47]

One has to wonder why they're buying all this stuff... I'm curious if all the ammo buys are a way to dry up supply so private citizens can't get any.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just say the name out loud - "Katrina". It's obviously foreign.

Being foreign... it's what "makes them so mad", if the fine advice of Flanders & Swann is anything to go by. Which it usually is.

You yourself seem a splendid chap, but after all you are foreign too, so I shall tread carefully.



Back on topic: The flip-side of holding Federal Emergency Management events is not holding them and therefore being untrained, unprepared and untested at times of genuine crisis.

Any country's normal emergency management preparations should be thorough enough that they cover all kinds of eventualities and the stark truth is that some of the possibilities being considered would be quite shocking to the general population.

Worrying that well-prepared armed services (military or civil) might have the power to turn in against the country goes, in my opinion, more to a worrying statement about the delicacy of the American social psyche.

@Agent_47 That wouldn't be a great plan, would it? It would surely be cheaper to apply full border shutdowns than buy and store vast quantities of ammunition just to keep it off the market. It might even stimulate the market...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You yourself seem a splendid chap, but after all you are foreign too, so I shall tread carefully.

Good advice for anyone dealing with Australia. If you're not careful, you'll fall prey to a drop bear.

 

[Grayfox]

Good advice for anyone dealing with Australia. If you're not careful, you'll fall prey to a drop bear.

Or our baby eating dingos or any one of our little nasties we have stashed away.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Conspiracy theory bollocks.

 

[ClydeYellow]

One has to wonder why they're buying all this stuff... I'm curious if all the ammo buys are a way to dry up supply so private citizens can't get any.

Unless you're shooting only military-grade ammo in the US, I think that would be quite ineffective.

Anyways, AFAIK ammo have an expiration date in the military and in paramilitary units. Maybe their current stock needed replacement?

P.S: a solar flare powerful enough to destroy trasformers would also **** up our ecosphere badly. What's most likely to be affetted is communication nets. It would be problematic, but not apocalyptic.