Vibrating needles at high speed

  • Thread starter Martinmaxx
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Martinmaxx

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As many of us have already noticed, when driving flat out on the straight of FUJI with a FINA McLaren F1 or a JGTC race car, the wheel´s force feedback can be quite strong.

Together with this strong FF, we also get the analog speedo needle and digital readout to vibrate a lot, creating an annoying "blur" effect.

My questions are :

1. Does this happen to everyone using the NTSC GT4P and a wheel?

2. Does it also happen while using a DS2 controller?

3. Has this "effect" been eliminated on the PAL GT4P version?

4. Would you like PD to keep this "needle blur" effect in the final version of GT4?

5. Do you think that this "effect" adds to the sense of speed of the game?

I look forward to hearing your comments.
 
It's neither blur effect or just vibrating needles but the whole car is vibrating heavily. I believe that it's an effect of massive downforce pushing car into the ground.. or something like that :confused:
 
I'm using a DS2 and a PAL version, and can report that at 300km
down the Fuji straight no blur or needle vibration.

I do like the sound of the wheel getting frisky, that would add a sense of speed, I so need to get a force feedback wheel.

Can you tell me if the wheel simulates a front wheel drive car trying to straighten its wheels up under acceleration through a bend, I really mean...how good is it?
 
Speed Drifter : I also believe that those vibrating needles would be simulating the whole car´s vibration. But what I actually see is only vibrating needles and digital speedo numbers...

Tacet Blue : I am surprised to find out this vibration does not affect DS2 users. That is very interesting, as there seems to be a visual difference as well as the FF effect between DS2 and wheel control. Concerning your question about FWD car trying to straighten it´s driving wheels (you mean "torque-steer", right?), I can tell you that this effect is not really noticeable with the DFP. But I have not driven many FWD cars lately in GT4P, so maybe someone else around here can give us another opinion.
 
Um. I use the Dual Shock 2 (both analogue sticks) and it 'vibrates' for me in race cars - even in New York.
I think it should stay. :)
 
It's not really a vibration of the wheel - it's more the needles on the instruments vibrating when you hit certain high speeds - it's about 275kmh in the McLaren - where the car seems to be struggling to accelerate. The McLaren will crack 300 down the main straight at Fuji.

I'll have another go tonight in a race, drafting should see the problem alleviated. I'll report back.
 
As I can recall the vibrating stops when you're drafting and thus you can reach higher top speeds.. In chinese version it's only the car that's vibrating, not the speedos and haven't played pal version enough yet to get any race cars :embarrassed:
 
It happens in PAL with a ps1 controler for me.
gtr.gif
 
Yes it does do this in the PAL version when playing with a DS2.

I think (and I could be wrong here), you get that in real life. It's called bouncing on the valves, and does the engine no good at all. Basically the cams are turing so fast that the valves are unable to open and close fast enough to put the air/fuel mixture in, and remove the exhaust fumes. I could be wrong on this.

If PD have simulated this, then that is amazing attention to detail, or it could just be a glitch in the game :rolleyes:

Cheers

Jamie
 
Originally posted by j8mie
I think (and I could be wrong here), you get that in real life. It's called bouncing on the valves, and does the engine no good at all. Basically the cams are turing so fast that the valves are unable to open and close fast enough to put the air/fuel mixture in, and remove the exhaust fumes. I could be wrong on this.

If PD have simulated this, then that is amazing attention to detail, or it could just be a glitch in the game :rolleyes:

Cheers

Jamie
Click to expand...

I don´t think so. The bouncing of valves should occur at much higher rpms, which neither of these racing cars can achieve. Besides, it should also occur in the lower gears, which isn´t the case.

Current racing engine valve springs can efficiently complete open/close cylces up to around 14000 rpm. From that point on, pneumatic actuation of valves is usually needed, such as that on F1 cars, which can achieve over 19000 rpm.

So both DS2 and wheel users get this disturbing effect? For me it is quite annoying, because it feels as if the car´s wheels were severely out of balance. Strange:confused: :irked:
 
The McLaren will crack 300 down the main straight at Fuji.
Click to expand...
..and over 320 in a good draft.

I use a DFP with the PAL version and vibration is fully present. As Speed Drifter pointed out I believe it's due to the massive amounts of downforce generated at such speed. The car is being pressed so hard onto the race track that you're feeling every little imperfection.
 
This happens to me also, I thought it was all the rubber layed down on the start straight making the car bounce and vibrate slightly due to the McLaren's stiff springs. :confused:
 
Originally posted by Martinmaxx
I don´t think so. The bouncing of valves should occur at much higher rpms, which neither of these racing cars can achieve. Besides, it should also occur in the lower gears, which isn´t the case.

Current racing engine valve springs can efficiently complete open/close cylces up to around 14000 rpm. From that point on, pneumatic actuation of valves is usually needed, such as that on F1 cars, which can achieve over 19000 rpm.

So both DS2 and wheel users get this disturbing effect? For me it is quite annoying, because it feels as if the car´s wheels were severely out of balance. Strange:confused: :irked:
Click to expand...

Looks like I slightly mis-read your orginal post. I thought you were getting this blurring when accelerating hard whilst in a low gear, and not when near/at top speed. Hench my reply.

My mistake :embarrassed: :lol:

Cheers

Jamie
 
I'm sure it wasn't this bad on the Chineese version, I mean it did happen a bit when you were topping out on Fuji's and New Yorks straightaway. But not to the level it does on the pal version. On the Takata NSX at New York test it happened so much that the TCS was flashing in 5th gear. I'm going to have to see if it was that bad on the other version.
 
I Don't use a steering wheel but the car vibrates a lot at 280k+. Only LIGHTish cars seem to do it though. Oh and the Greasemobile F1 Longbody. (Lol that car has the most amazing power to spin you ever. Fine in the right hands, amusing in the wrong hands)

It also does it in manual in 6th gear at that point, whcih is at very low revs (comparatively)

By the way i have the PAL version
 
Since I live close to eindhoven I thought I could solve this question once and for all!

I asked peter Kox, the famous Dutch professional driver that drove this car for his opinion! I hope he will be so kind to answer this question of having to hold the wheel to hold the car on the fuji straight.

Maybe other (english) members are aware, in contact with people that drove this car? Steve Soper maybe? Any people that live close to his bmw-dealership in lincoln?

http://www.peterkox.nl/foto.asp?EventID=20&EventName=BMW Powered McLaren

Happy racing!
 
In a race car, at high speed, with any sort of toe-in or toe-out, the wheels will always bounce back and forth against each other, which is my explanation of the strong feedback thru the GTF steering wheels.

I also believe the jumpy speedo and tach are affected by this, but in the case of the fastest race cars that generate a few ten thousand pounds of downforce, the suspensions of said cars are probably bottoming out either on the ground or on their bump-stops, adding to the toe effect substantially.

Hope that answers the question.
 
All good! Even more realism is coming to GT!!

But one thing:

I may have just not noticed it, but have I sensed a complete lack of turbo dump valve noise on GTP? The shaky revs at high speed would drive this crazy! Why did it get taken away?
 
:) i have had prolouge since uk release i have passed the test with the fina bmw maclaren i use a ds2 controller and at full speed on the straight experience the vibration as well weather drafting or not so i belive it is down to that particular cars physics
 
Any car at high speed (though some need higher speeds than others, of course, just ike real life) will do it, not just the F1. The trouble is, not many cars do 280km/h on the limited room allowed on the fastest track in "prolouge", Fuji.
 
The 350Z Z-Tune, M5 Concept and SL 55 AMG can all do over 275 km/h on the main straight of Fuji (on their own) but there's not even a sign of needle/revs wobble.

I've had the F1 up to 309 km/h and Ford GT up to 301 km/h under their own steam.
 
Polyphony001
Yeah but thats still not many is it. By the way I forgot to mention, only fairly light cars do it.
Click to expand...

So i hear you got the new ford turbo diesel so how is it
"Beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutiful mate",
Why buy a Renault when you could buy me mates GRAN TURISMO 4 (actual game) prototype off him for 2$. :dopey:
 
Only bought it this weekend - but i've noticed the 'vibration' at Fuji thing as well - i took it as a bug, but perhaps it is a compression/downforce thing like some are suggesting? It reminded me of a similar problem that the little Del-Sol LM had in GT2 when you changed the set-up - does anyone else remember this - or was it just me?
 

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