Viewer Discretion Advised: US Soldier throws puppy off a cliff in Iraq

It's clear that the sole purpose of this video is to shock - and you don't even need to watch it to know that. Whether it's fake or real, the sense of indignation about it is a bit over the top... I don't think it says anything about soldiers or human behaviour that we didn't already know - although perhaps the urge to click the link and watch something you that know is going to annoy/disgust/infuriate yourself is something that is novel to the internet generation?
 
Since the military came out with a specific firearm for the purpose of killing dogs, I doubt they'll do much about the puppy killing. War is hell.
I haven't seen the video of the dog being shot, but I believe your comment could only be applied to that video, since in the first one the soldier threw the dog.
 
Killing something for absolutely no reason needs to be punished. I don't like war and all that, but soldiers have reasons for killing in those situations. I'm pretty sure the dog posed no threat to the soldier, and he needs to leave the military now.

Edit: I have not watched either videos as I could not bear to watch violence towards an animal like that. Why the hell would anyone want to do this ever? The only time I would ever accept killing an animal is for hunting or if you are in danger. I don't think either was the case here.

While I can't comment on the nature of the videos (fake or not) as I'm at work and they get blocked, I would like to point out that culls of stray dogs and puppys are not uncommon in war zones and disaster areas. They pose a huge threat to people in terms of attacks and disease.

Keep in mind that a cute little puppy like this...

pitbull-puppy.jpg


..can grow into this...

male_pitbull_sale_xx23.jpg



...stray dogs of any nature in an area were food is scarce are dangerous, particularly if they are running in packs. It doesn't take long for a puppy to grow to a full size dog, many of which are capable of outrunning and taking down adults.

I fully support any discussion about the nature of the video and the method of killing (and certainly agree that its should be humane), but please don't try and claim that dogs in areas like this can't pose a danger to people.


Regards

Scaff
 
Hopefully, this was a mercy killing, as the animal appeared to be injured on the opposite side of its' rear quarters. Perhaps they thought shooting it while it was sleeping would have been the less painful thing to do...but as some of us saw, it didn't go as quickly as perhaps they'd planned ("Damn, it's still alive!" wouldn't indicate an inclination to keep torturing the animal).
I agree it does appear to already have an injury to to the inside of its left thigh. And as the soldiers were not laughing but one even stepped up to give it a point blank shot I think they were just trying to put it down. It is taken out of context on a foreign site where I cannot even read the title.

No fair judgments can be made of this video without seeing the few minutes before and after.

And yes, that's a real porno. Swear to God. It's available to rent at the knicknack store/hippie barn/head shop near my school. :scared:
I am not going to ask how you know.

um...what's the pleasure in that? I mean a rat, sure. But a puppy. Even a dog of any kind. What's the point?
What is the difference? Puppies are cute and make good pets? My brother had two pet rats and they made great pets. People have pet snakes but hardly a word is mentioned about killing a snake.

Heck, we could look at dingo killings in Australia to draw an even better comparison. Or here in Kentucky if a coyote is spotted in rural areas they are killed by wildlife officers because it means they have begun hunting pets and a small child out in the wrong place can become prey. And a coyote is basically a dog without humans influencing their genetic heritage.

People kill animals all the time, and we eat them all the time. Heck, we raise them just so we can kill them. Why do we suddenly have such a concern when said animal is closely related to our pets?

I mean, I agree cruelty to animals just to be cruel is not a good thing. It tends to be an outlet for rage that could eventually become directed at humans. But at the same time that one act could be all the relief he needs. But we have to look at it from that angle, not as if he is some criminal. Just get the man some kind of psychological evaluation and determine if he is still mentally fit to be a soldier. I mean, we did train him to be desensitized to the act of killing, perhaps this is just a sign he just lacks the mental ability to handle that.

Disclaimer: I don't think image is in fact the issue here - just a bit of my own devil's advocate.
The image of what a US soldier should be is an excuse to defend the fact that we just can't help to see a poor, innocent puppy harmed. There is an image issue here, but it is the image of someone doing it to our own pet dogs that is what gets us.

In the end, it's ironic that some people say how animals are primitive, stupid, pointless, deadly yada yada yet it's us who are going around shooting them and stealing what is essentially their planet (they were here first after all). Again, we say "human life over animal life", we're destroying the planet...what right do we have to keep it instead of animals?
Wait aren't we just evolved animals? Unless you are a creationist, in which case we are masters of the Earth.

Besides, making it sound as if humans are to blame for all the problems in nature is bad. Animals were going extinct from their own behavior long before we came along. I have seen overpopulation of deer and what happens. Their food supplies run short and in Kentucky this year we had an outbreak of blue tongue disease. Were it not for wildlife officials actively working with hunters to kill and bring the infected deer into an area where they could be properly disposed of it could have been an epidemic that killed out most of the population.

My point is that animals were doing a good job of killing each other off before we got involved. Instinctive behavior causes animals to deplete their own food supplies and destroy the ecosystem around them. We are just another animal doing what animals do. The only difference is that we can recognize when we should and shouldn't do it.

With that said, considering the overpopulation of cats and dogs I am surprised we don't have a huge euthanasia program. It's probably cheaper than spay and neuter. Odd how if a wild animal gets overpopulated we set hunters out to do their thing, but when domestic animals do it we just castrate them. Really, which is more humane?

I would like to point out that culls of stray dogs and puppys are not uncommon in war zones and disaster areas. They pose a huge threat to people in terms of attacks and disease.

<snip cute to vicious images>

...stray dogs of any nature in an area were food is scarce are dangerous, particularly if they are running in packs. It doesn't take long for a puppy to grow to a full size dog, many of which are capable of outrunning and taking down adults.
I believe this is an often overlooked aspect. No one thinks about how in borderline third-world countries like Iraq and Afghanistan that cute puppies aren't much of a pet because they aren't cheap to keep. In some places dogs are food, not pets.

Scaff raises a good point, can killing stray dogs be considered to be standard procedure, only this one made it on You Tube?
 
The video looked very fake to me. If it is real, I do not agree with senseless killing of any animal, however I am an avid hunter and fisherman. Whether it would have been the cutest, cuddliest puppy you have ever seen or a muskrat, if it poses no harm to you or you aren't planning on eating it I see no point to kill it. With that said I still don't think these guys should really be in any trouble, if they feel good about it then so be it, I don't know the whole story and I'm not going to judge them to harshly for it.

And about the comments about how these soldiers should more or less die for their actions is pretty bad. It amazes me how often we put more of a value on animal life then human life.
 
The video isn't fake. They really shoot the dog four or five times. It's another example of why I hate the standard M4/M16 rifle. The POS 5.56NATO round is weak and pathetic.

I've had to shoot a dog before, and it wouldn't allow me to get close enough for a clean head shot. So, I shot it in the chest with my .44 lever action Marlin. He howled like the puppy in the video for about 20 seconds before falling over dead. I love dogs and hated to do it, but it was necessary at the time. Waiting several hours for the dog catcher was NOT an option.
 
...wouldn't allow me to get close enough for a clean head shot...

Shooting puppies =/= COD4

...Just sayin'...

Its not a good thing to do, but remember, we toppled a dictator who likely would have been just as happy to perform the shooting on his own citizens.
 
Indeed it is, and often it is assumed a discharge other than honorable is bad. However, a Dishonorable discharge is something that can ruin your life. If I'm not mistaken, dishonorable discharges are similar to felonies and many of the basic American rights are stripped from the offending individual.

Of course, I could be wrong and don't know for sure. :confused:

I did a bit of digging after looking back at the situation regarding my stepgrandfather that I posted a page back or so.

The only right stripped in the case of a modern punitive dishonorable discharge is the right to own a firearm, but this only applies in some U.S. States and only where the reason for the dishonorable discharge makes that action appropriate. In the past it was known occasionally to cause problems getting a job, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, unless confinement is mandated as part of the GCM that results in the discharge.

That said, they seem to be applied for crimes much more severe than this, as part of a general court martial. The type of discharge we may be talking about is a "Bad Conduct Discharge", which is the most moderate of the modern punitive discharge measures.

Directly to topic, all in all, we're really arguing hypotheticals here - until we know the facts of both videos, this is pretty much an exercise in theory.

So here's a new hypothetical - assuming one or both of these videos depict a real non-mercy animal killing by real U.S. Soldiers, how do you feel about the fact that your tax dollars pay these soldiers' salaries? Waste of US Taxpayer money occurs every day of course, in all sorts of venues, but how about this one? Do you honestly want them left in the service drawing a VERY high paycheck (hazard/combat pay is nothing to laugh at) from your collective monies?
 
here's a new hypothetical - assuming one or both of these videos depict a real non-mercy animal killing by real U.S. Soldiers, how do you feel about the fact that your tax dollars pay these soldiers' salaries? Waste of US Taxpayer money occurs every day of course, in all sorts of venues, but how about this one? Do you honestly want them left in the service drawing a VERY high paycheck (hazard/combat pay is nothing to laugh at) from your collective monies?

If they're still doing the job they were sent there to do, then yes.
 
So here's a new hypothetical - assuming one or both of these videos depict a real non-mercy animal killing by real U.S. Soldiers, how do you feel about the fact that your tax dollars pay these soldiers' salaries? Waste of US Taxpayer money occurs every day of course, in all sorts of venues, but how about this one? Do you honestly want them left in the service drawing a VERY high paycheck (hazard/combat pay is nothing to laugh at) from your collective monies?
VERY high paycheck? Seriously? Egads, I didn't know I was so rich.

I just did a check and I make more than a staff sergeant with 6 years of service, aka beyond their initial contract. Combat pay is $225 a month. That would be $7.50 a day. It takes an officer with at least four years of service to get close to my salary.

Considering that most of those troops are likely to be privates or private first class you are looking at anywhere from $15,000 to $20,000 a year. Add in $225 for combat duty, that's $2,700 a year, so at best roughly $18,000 to $23,000 a year for your average grunt in the line of fire.

I don't care whether they are killing puppies or not, we do not pay them enough. And if his aggressions are taken out on just a puppy and not innocent humans then let him fight. But I would have him given a psych eval first.


And for verification:
Army Active Duty Salaries
 
I agree - they aren't paid enough for risking their lives.

Soldiers currently deployed to Iraq are (or should be, by what I've read and heard) making a LOT more than what you quote though. There are a whole host of different payscales that come into play beyond combat pay - hazard pay, pay incentives based on location, and a LOT of bonuses.

The guy who lived in the apartment across the hall from me until a few months ago was recently deployed with the Army National Guard as a truck driver in a hazardous region of Iraq, but certainly not the most hazardous. In addition to base salary, combat pay, hazard pay, and a whole host of other incentives, he's receiving a $60,000/yr deployment bonus. All told, he's making over six figures a year while deployed, and he's not even an Army regular - just a Guardsman - AND the company he works for is contractually obligated to continue to pay his regular salary while he's on deployment.

While that STILL isn't enough to justify the risk of life in a morally questionable situation, it's not chump change, and it's a WHOLE lot more than I'll likely ever make a year.
 
The guy who lived in the apartment across the hall from me until a few months ago was recently deployed with the Army National Guard as a truck driver in a hazardous region of Iraq, but certainly not the most hazardous. In addition to base salary, combat pay, hazard pay, and a whole host of other incentives, he's receiving a $60,000/yr deployment bonus. All told, he's making over six figures a year while deployed, and he's not even an Army regular - just a Guardsman - AND the company he works for is contractually obligated to continue to pay his regular salary while he's on deployment.
He isn't the average grunt. I know too many military members and family of members to know that is not the average. If it were as many wouldn't be getting out with as little money as they have.
 
That's pretty upsetting...

Do individual recruiting stations or service subdivisions have some individual control over how much incentive pay is offered? It seems pretty terrible that one soldier performing the same dangerous duty as another would be paid differently.

I certainly believe you though... and sadly I'm not surprised.
 
What I want to know is...would people care this much if he threw a cat or some other small animal? No seriously, it's this whole image of a puppy being so pure and innocent and it will never do anything wrong. People are going to look back at this whole "aww he killed a puppy" BS in 5 years and go "Wow, that guy's a jerk for killing a puppy." Like they should have in the first place. And this man will have ruined his whole life possibly because he killed a puppy. Go ahead and call me an evil person, but what is worse than him killing a puppy is him getting discharged from the military.

All I'm saying is, I think a man's life is worth more than a puppy.
 
...although a cat would be far less likely to allow things to reach that point.

All the cats I've been around would have left a set of eight half-inch deep gashes across the soldier's eyesockets and run off to safety... mean little buggers when threatened! :sly:
 
Really?

DQuaN
I'd like to throw him off that cliff.

VIPERGTSR01
I would have pushed both of them off too, If I had witnessed that. Or shoot them, either way.

Would I have really pushed them off the cliff or shoot them? No, I don't think I could do that to anyone, not to mention ruining my own life the same time. I was exaggerating mostly due to my shock of the video (which was their whole point), but that does not exuse what they did, even if they need to 'cull' these animals they totally went the wrong way about it.
 
I'd sworn to myself I wouldn't watch that video until I felt I could. I've watched it now and most the thoughts that are going through my hed would break the AUP several times so I'm not going to say them. All I can say is that I'm disgusted of the way they treated that animal, animals have rights too.

What I want to know is...would people care this much if he threw a cat or some other small animal? No seriously

I'd care more if it was a cat.
 
I'd sworn to myself I wouldn't watch that video until I felt I could. I've watched it now and most the thoughts that are going through my hed would break the AUP several times so I'm not going to say them.
Are you more shocked now that you've seen the video than you were when you read the thread title? You clearly knew that the video would upset you, so why did you watch it? (I'm not having a go at you, by the way, I'd just like to know why people watch things that they know are going to annoy them...)

I can't honestly say that there was any other reason why I watched the video other than morbid curiosity... just like this disturbing cliff footage - Do not click this link if you are easily offended...!
 
Yes animals have rights but I do not believe for a second they have more rights then humans. As I've said people forget this, quite often it seems. Just because some guys threw an animal off a cliff doesn't mean they should have bodily harm brought upon them, ya sure they are insensitive jerks or whatever but does the death of an animal really justify the death of a person? I know many people would say yes and I would honestly like to know why.
 
I bet if I went to your house and shot your dog/cat/pet you'd be pretty pissed and want to hurt me. Hell, I bet if I came around to your house and started beating your Mini with a baseball bat you'd come out and physically harm me.
 
Well first off I do not own a pet, dogs scare the hell out of me because I was bit by one (for no reason that I could see) when I was younger and I am allergic to cats. I understand people have close attachment to their animals and even their property but as far as I know this dog doesn't belong to any of you. I think it is one thing to get angry and upset if it's yours.

Would people be as upset if they threw rabid raccoon, a rat, or a snake off the cliff? Probably not. Would it be any different if they had a video of them swatting flies or stepping on ants?
 
I think the issue is (for me at least, and I haven't watched the videos), is that the killing of the animals is not wrong per se, but that people doing it are doing it for laughs, or kicks, or cause they're bored and have nothing else to do? Anyone deliberately killing anything for fun, is just plain wrong, even if they're flies or ants.
 
While I agree killing for kicks and giggles is wrong, I still go hunting quite often because I find it fun. I guess the difference there is that I eat everything I kill which means it has some purpose to it.

But really after watching the video again it really looks fake, but I guess there is a big investigation (thanks tax dollars!!!) to see what is up with it. If it does end up being fake I think the soldiers that did it should be discharged for wasting large sums of money. If it's real, I suppose they should go under psychiatric evaluation and then probably medically discharged.
 
Are you more shocked now that you've seen the video than you were when you read the thread title? You clearly knew that the video would upset you, so why did you watch it? (I'm not having a go at you, by the way, I'd just like to know why people watch things that they know are going to annoy them...)

I can't honestly say that there was any other reason why I watched the video other than morbid curiosity... just like this disturbing cliff footage - Do not click this link if you are easily offended...!

I think you have it right already, TM - it boils down to morbid curiosity. The internet is a treasure trove of fodder for the morbidly curious.

That, and the fact that people who tend to frequent debate forums (including myself in this one, so no one get offended...) kind of like to be made to feel a little indignant... spurs on the discussion I guess. Is that a little strange? Probably yes :sly:
 
...although a cat would be far less likely to allow things to reach that point.
And it would have landed on its feet, flipped the guy off, and run around the nearest rock.

I can't honestly say that there was any other reason why I watched the video other than morbid curiosity... just like this disturbing cliff footage - Do not click this link if you are easily offended...!
That's worse than getting Rick Roll'd. I should have known better coming from you.

I bet if I went to your house and shot your dog/cat/pet you'd be pretty pissed and want to hurt me. Hell, I bet if I came around to your house and started beating your Mini with a baseball bat you'd come out and physically harm me.
Ah, but that is my personal property. I have both financial and sentimental/emotional attachments to those specific things. You have violated my rights as a property owner and I will use whatever force I feel needed to stop you.

Seeing a random stray dog or cat killed has the same effect as watching cars crushed in a junk yard. Yep, its sad, but I have no attachment to it so my emotional response is little to none.

I mean, how many crime scenes do we see on the news and just go on with our lives? It isn't us or anyone we know so at most we think how sad or stupid it is and then worry about the weather and the latest on Britney and K-Fed. But if we saw our friend's car in an accident report or heard them named as a victim in a crime we don't want the report to switch without giving us more details so we can check on them. Watching a soldier shoot or throw a dog has the same effect on me as a random crime story, but if it is my dog I will likely attempt to make him regret it.

The question is: why do we react so strongly when we see a dog abused but watch the news nightly and only react when it is a featured story that the media turns into a controversy and designs to make us react?

Or let me put it this way: Why did America react more strongly to Michael Vick than the beltway sniper or Scott Peterson?
 
I think the issue is (for me at least, and I haven't watched the videos), is that the killing of the animals is not wrong per se, but that people doing it are doing it for laughs, or kicks, or cause they're bored and have nothing else to do? Anyone deliberately killing anything for fun, is just plain wrong, even if they're flies or ants.

Way to take what I was trying to saying.

And I've never personally had a dog, just found out I'm allergic to them actually (2 of my friends have hypoallergenic dogs, but the day he gets a pit bull I get hair all over my sweatshirt :() but I used to have 2 cats and a black goldfish. One of the cats strayed away from the house and got hit by a car, and the second died under a tree when it was (get this) 24 human years old. Freaking 19 years older than me when it died!

Goldfish lasted 2 weeks cause my brother thought he got cold so he put him in direct sunlight...direct sunlight + black goldfish = not good.



AANYWAYS, soldiers should pay (monetarily) for all this BS that they stirred up, then they can charge them criminally for wasting government money and from there military discharges, etc...
 
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