VW 1200 Bug too heavy?

[weirdkerr]

Perhaps it is a licensing issue with the fact that the beetle was designed(if you can call stealing a design from skoda designing) by Ferdinand Porsche they had to make it heavier or something,

 

[Cosbuster]

There has to be something we don't know, I refuse to believe they managed to get something that obvious wrong on a DLC car...

 

[shirakawaa]

As said by diegorborges, PD used the gross vehicle weight (GVW) instead of the curb weight. The GVW is the maximum allowed weight for the car, including fluids, passengers, cargo. In the case of the '66 Beetle, the GVW is 1160 Kg. The curb weight (what they should have used instead. This is the weight in typical operating conditions, with a full tank and no passengers or cargo) is 780 Kg.

 

[analog]

I do hope this'll be corrected or fixed in an update, the Beetle as it currently is, is already a hoot to drive but even more so if it sheds some weight to the correct specification.
I honestly don't understand how they could mistake curb weight and gross vehicle weight though, ofcourse making mistakes is only human but they're working in teams right?
There are many more cars in GT5 with incorrect specifications but a brand new addition on which they spend so much time should be a high priority in my opinion to be corrected in the next update.

 

[SuperSic]

so we have 3 badly done DLC cars so far.

- GT-R 2012: changing gears should be a lot faster, like the 07 model already available in the game;
-Third DLC pack mini: should have been 4wd. Technically it isn't badly done since there's a FWD model but still;
- Beetle: weights a ton (literally).

Good thing someone points this out. It's a disgrace and unacceptable. It's like they are mocking us really.

There has to be something we don't know, I refuse to believe they managed to get something that obvious wrong on a DLC car...

I am amazed at how people are so easily saying that PD calculated the gross vehicle weight instead of the curb weight. Don't get me wrong, they are probably right, but accepting this is like calling PD retarded..so i just have to have second thoughts on this.

 

[JaySin85]

So should we request refunds on DLC till they fix these issue? We shouldn't have to accept such flaws.

 

[TankAss95]

Considering the amount of detail PD puts into their premium cars I find this disappointing. They should change this and the Ferrari F40 back to their original weight.

 

[jmx5]

I'm 99.9 % sure the weight is a typo. According to online source the 1200 should do 0-100 kmh in approx. 37 seconds. I went and tested it and managed 36.702 with a stock car with an oil change. Just to see how weight affect the acceleration, I added the maximum ammount of ballast (200kg) and went again, this time it took 41.213 seconds to get to 100.
So it looks like the physics of the car are accurate, just the weight is a typo. Because if it were 1/3 heavier, the 0-100 time wold surely be atleast 45 seconds with 1160 kg.

 

[p78]

so is the clubman a sleeper 4wd then?

 

[tillybalent]

I'm 99.9 % sure the weight is a typo. According to online source the 1200 should do 0-100 kmh in approx. 37 seconds. I went and tested it and managed 36.702 with a stock car with an oil change. Just to see how weight affect the acceleration, I added the maximum ammount of ballast (200kg) and went again, this time it took 41.213 seconds to get to 100.
So it looks like the physics of the car are accurate, just the weight is a typo. Because if it were 1/3 heavier, the 0-100 time wold surely be atleast 45 seconds with 1160 kg.

Great finding! Thank you!

 

[shirakawaa]

I'm 99.9 % sure the weight is a typo. According to online source the 1200 should do 0-100 kmh in approx. 37 seconds. I went and tested it and managed 36.702 with a stock car with an oil change. Just to see how weight affect the acceleration, I added the maximum ammount of ballast (200kg) and went again, this time it took 41.213 seconds to get to 100.
So it looks like the physics of the car are accurate, just the weight is a typo. Because if it were 1/3 heavier, the 0-100 time wold surely be atleast 45 seconds with 1160 kg.

How can it be a typo if even with weight reduction modifications the car's heavier than it's supposed to be?
I'd suggest that the weight is wrong and the car's physics are wrong too, if the car accelerates from 0 to 100 Km/h in the same time it's supposed to do with the correct weight.

 

[jmx5]

How can it be a typo if even weight reduction modifications still aren't able to reduce the car's weight to the value it's supposed to be?
I'd suggest that the weight is wrong and the car's physics are wrong too, if the car accelerates from 0 to 100 Km/h in the same time it's supposed to do with the correct weight.

By no means do I know anything about how the cars are made for GT5, but don't you think, it' quite likely that the actual car specs shown in the game and the cars performance isn't linked? What I mean is, that they make the physics and then just enter the stats and someone doing the data entry made a mistake? Quite a coinsidence that a car that is shown to have 1/3 extra weight that it's supposed to have, does basically an identical time, to that the car should do in real life without the extra weight?
And as the weight is inserted as 1160, can't it be that the weight reduction just takes that weight off the car (the reduced weight obvusly being incorrectly inserted/calculated as well)?

 

[shirakawaa]

That is possible, but unlikely in my opinion. I can't see why they should have a "displayed" value for weight and a "real value" hidden from users, both of which getting reduced by the correct amount through the weight reduction modification. The power-to-weight ratio (in the tuning screen) too appears to be calculated with the wrong weight.

 

[dethringr]

this car sucks. and i cant sell it. stupid waiste of time to even create it in the first place. just like that WW2 car and the stupid VW bus

 

[JOSHIE-G]

dethringr, You probably drive a lexarse

 

[UnionStrike]

Hurr Everything sucks, I hate life.

You didn't have to buy the DLC or GT5 if it bothered you that much.

 

[snowgt]

That is possible, but unlikely in my opinion. I can't see why they should have a "displayed" value for weight and a "real value" hidden from users, both of which getting reduced by the correct amount through the weight reduction modification. The power-to-weight ratio (in the tuning screen) too appears to be calculated with the wrong weight.

I don't think it's that unlikely. This difference in real and displayed value is just a constant factor that could be programmed into all interface-functions.

Isn't it also unlikely to believe that the GT5 car models are so accurate that their performance in game doesn't need to be tweaked to better approach their real life performance? It wouldn't surprise me, if they have simple factors for power and weight that will adapt the cars' in-game performance to what it should achieve without changing the displayed values.

 

[shirakawaa]

Of all cars, why just the '66 VW 1200 would have this visual weight bug?
In my opinion PD botched the weight and then adjusted the car's performance to real life specs by tweaking other parameters. Aerodynamics, for example.
The top speed of this car is supposed to be 115 Km/h. In GT5 it achieves over 120 Km/h relatively easily, with the engine way past peak power.

This page mentions, by the way, a 0-50 Km/h acceleration of 6.5 seconds; the Beetle in GT5 is much slower than this.
http://www.autobild.de/klassik/artikel/vw-kaefer-opel-kadett-a-ford-taunus-12m-821751.html

Interesting data here too (look for the '61 1200 version):
http://www.vabalai.lt/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=120

0-50 Km/h 7.0s
0-80 Km/h 18.0s
0-100 Km/h 37.0s
0-1000m 44.0s
top speed: 115 Km/h

 

[jmx5]

I'm not our to prove one or the other, just to get to the bottom of this. Did quite a few tests.

First reducing the weight as much as possible (reduction stage 3, lightweight glass and CF bonnet), got to 982 KG, keeping the power standard. In this specification, the car would still be ATLEAST 100 KG overweight.

For the record the times I was able to find online are:
Beetle 1200 0-100 km/h 37 sec

So at 982 KG and 34 HP, the car does:
0-100 km/h in 32.198 sec
400m in 24.543 sec

At this point the car is atleast 100 kg overweight still, but about 4.5 seconds faster to 100 km/h...

I then started adding 50 kg after each test, to see what it does:

@1032 kg
0-100 km/h in 33.530 sec
400m in 24.928 sec

@1082 kg
0-100 km/h in 34.705 sec
400m in 25.122 sec

@1132 kg
0-100 km/h in 35.807 sec
400 m in 25.416 sec

@1182 kg
0-100 km/h 36.746 sec
400m in 25.5 sec


Now for the data, that SHIRAKAWA Akira found (great info btw and obviously way better google skills then mine )

0-50 Km/h 7.0s (in the game, takes slightly under 9 sec)
0-80 Km/h 18.0s (in the game takes around 20 seconds)
0-100 Km/h 37.0s (pretty much dead on)
0-1000m 44.0s (~47.5 seconds)


SO the gap seems to come from at launch and low speed. I launched with the revs bouncing off the limiter, to get constant results, but I don't think it would have mattered much, as there was hardly any problems with traction

 

[shirakawaa]

Could you test again with a stopwatch the 0-50 Km/h acceleration time (It seems pretty much confirmed that for a real '66 VW 1200 it should be around 6.5-7.0 seconds) with the fully lightened car (I don't have ready access to my PS3 to test right now)?

My theory is that the car in GT5 is heavier than real life, leading to slow low-speed acceleration times, but somewhat, as speed increases, the car takes the lead again due to better aerodynamics than real life. Since the car has got only 34 hp, this would have a noticeable effect even at relatively low speeds (~90-100 Km/h). This would also explain how top speed can exceed 115 Km/h with ease.

By the way, in this page they mention 32.8 seconds for 0-100 Km/h on a stock '61 1200 34 hp model:
http://www.zwischengas.com/de/FT/fa...-De-Luxe-immer-wieder-geht-die-Sonne-auf.html

From what I'm seeing it looks like ~38 seconds is the acceleration time for the older 30 hp model.

 

[jmx5]

Could you test again with a stopwatch the 0-50 Km/h acceleration time (It seems pretty much confirmed that for a real '66 VW 1200 it should be around 6.5-7.0 seconds) with the fully lightened car (I don't have ready access to my PS3 to test right now)?

My theory is that the car in GT5 is heavier than real life, leading to slow low-speed acceleration times, but somewhat, as speed increases, the car takes the lead again due to better aerodynamics than real life. Since the car has got only 34 hp, this would have a noticeable effect even at relatively low speeds (~90-100 Km/h). This would also explain how top speed can exceed 115 Km/h with ease.

By the way, in this page they mention 32.8 seconds for 0-100 Km/h on a stock '61 1200 34 hp model:
http://www.zwischengas.com/de/FT/fahrzeugberichte/Der-Kaefer-VW-1200-De-Luxe-immer-wieder-geht-die-Sonne-auf.html

Also measured std again (last time measures by eye, now from replay) and max weight
Fully lightened car (982kg) about 7.8 seconds
Std (1160kg) 8.7 seconds
Full weight (std + 200 kg ballast = 1360 kg) 9.8 seconds
1260 kg (100 kg blaast) 9.3 seconds

The real life test results could obvusly have 100 different variables (testing conditions, is the testers had a regular car or one that was helped along a bit by the factory to get better results etc).

So about a second per 200 kg, which would explain real life vs game 0-50 times?

 

[shirakawaa]

Also measured std again (last time measures by eye,

Thanks.

So about a second per 200 kg, which would explain real life vs game 0-50 times?

If it's about a second per 200 Kg, then if the car weighted 780 Kg it would have had a 0-50 Km/h acceleration time of 6.5-6.7 seconds, which would have been on par with real life performance.

Here's a chart of your 0-50 Km/h acceleration data (seconds vs weight in Kg), with additional derived linear trend line:

This reinforces my belief that the Bug in GT is indeed too heavy and also has a too much efficient aerodynamics compared to the real model, and this has been probably tweaked this way to make the 0-100 Km/h performance match with the real car (unsurprisingly, they must have taken as reference the old 30 hp model).

 

[jmx5]

Thanks.

If it's about a second per 200 Kg, then if the car weighted 780 Kg it would have had a 0-50 Km/h acceleration time of 6.5-6.7 seconds, which would have been on par with real life performance.

This reinforces my belief that the Bug in GT is indeed too heavy and also has a too much efficient aerodynamics compared to the real model, and this has been probably tweaked this way to make the 0-100 Km/h performance match with the real car (unsurprisingly, they must have taken as reference the old 30 hp model).

Certanly looking that way.
When I started testing before, I found some specs for the 1500 (qtr mile 24,2 sec 0-100 in21.9 sec - 53 hp).
Modified engine stg 2 and sports air filter to exactly 53 hp. Obviously there might be (and mst likely is) other differences between the 1200 and 1500, but the times I got were:

0-100 km/h // 400 m
982 kg 19.345 // 21.115
1082 kg 20.653 // 21.600
1182 kg 21.923 // 22.029
1260 kg 23.090 // 22.430
1360 kg 24.332 // 22.752

Never a windtunnel around when you need one

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Haha this was the first thing I noticed when I tuned my bug. I was like theres no way this thing really weigh that much.Guess they just restricted it like the supra.

 

[JaySin85]

This weight thing is silly. It really makes me think twice about my loyalty to PD. Then the FF Countryman, is this supposed to be some sick joke?

 

[Spagetti69]

Perhaps it is a licensing issue with the fact that the beetle was designed(if you can call stealing a design from skoda designing) by Ferdinand Porsche they had to make it heavier or something,

Your funny mate.
Maybe fat Porsche is on its way lol.

I shouldn't laugh but it is funny. On a more serious note though, this sort of crap is going into GT6 I assume. Then it doesn't become funny. Makes me feel wry uneasy about the future.

 

[kieran177]

Is this the right weight 1160kg? I think thats around 2550lb. I've driven this car in real life there is no way it felt that heavy. Am I wrong or going crazy.

Maybe it has military grade metal? Maybe the Germans made it so if there was a nuke, cockroaches and VW 1200 beetles would survive, and produce transport for the survivors. I mean, if you could choose any car for this, i wouldn't choose the beetle

 

[dethringr]

dethringr, You probably drive a lexarse

still faster than that POS

 

[dethringr]

You didn't have to buy the DLC or GT5 if it bothered you that much.

I bought the DLC and GT5 so i have a right to my opinion. You dont have to agree with it. Each of the DLC has something that I found was of value so i bought it. And each DLC had stuff i thought they can skip and used their resources on other better things.

 

[finnracer]

still faster than that POS

Obviously!! The Lexarse comparison was probably more about you not liking interesting and slower, cars, and the fact that all you can say in reply is 'a lexus is faster than a beetle' reflects this.