VW's costly White Elephant

[Tornado]

I always thought that Phaeton was more an engineering proof of concept than an actual attempt to build a big-seller. In the same vein as Veyron, really. You'll note that each car is significantly divorced from other vehicles that it may damage. I mean, nobody sniffing around an A8 would seriously consider buying a VW. It was more about proving that VW could build an uber-car, than it was about trying to convince people to buy it.

VW have long been into building radical concepts, and then just building another Golf, so the only interesting thing about Phaeton is that it actually made it to production.

And that right there is just about the only thing Piech ever did wrong with the VAG empire. Problem is that he did it multiple times. All of this blame can't be centered on Piech anyways, because the Phaeton went into production after Piech resigned. Unless I'm missing something.

I never ment you but rather some other people. Usually those of a younger age.

Nice cheap shot. Both sneaky and underhanded. I like it.

And who exactly drives the 7 series. Usually old men whose brains have long started to decline. If im not mistaken the 7 isnt the only car with I-Drive and they seem to sell just fine.

That's because they are BM fricken W's. They would sell even if they were dramatically restyled to be ugly pieces of tripe (wait a minute...), and NO one thing will stop that. And I guess your right. Old men totally drive sport sedans and not Lexuses (Lexi?), because everyone knows how much granny and grandpa Jones that drive 45 in a 60 zone just love carving up mountains.

Ye its a cheap bentley.

Then let's call it a cheap Bentley. 'Cause, you know, that changes everything....

You said constant. Not one.

So you're saying that every single Mercedes that the company recalled (which I believe went into the 100,000s) was the same car, even though they were different makes? And every single U.S. magazine that had a long term test Mercedes in the past 2 years or so that had a electrical problem (Which, funnily enough, was every single one. How novel!) also had the same car? How does that work?

 

[Young_Warrior]

So you're saying that every single Mercedes that the company recalled (which I believe went into the 100,000s) was the same car, even though they were different makes? And every single U.S. magazine that had a long term test Mercedes in the past 2 years or so that had a electrical problem (Which, funnily enough, was every single one. How novel!) also had the same car? How does that work?

Proof? Evidence?

And what exactly do you mean by electrical problems? Electric windows playing up or something?

And lets look at the bigger picture. Of every manufacture in the world most have had a product recall or at least every major manufacturer. Its happened to toyota GM VAG Daimler Chrysler...

A 7 series is not a sports sedan. It just handles good compared to cough cough Big american cars cough.

In the UK the average 7 series driver is 40 and above. Audi's main customers for the A6 and A8 are above 45 according to audi's market research and these two brands go head to head.

And yeah the phaeton is a cheap bentley. The bentley comes under the VW management and so has pretty much nothing to with audi. Audi manages SEAT and Lamborghini as a way to sperate the brands in the way they drive and feel.

 

[niky]

Everyone has recalls, yes. But recent MBs and BMWs have a lot of non-recall electrical glitches and niggles that put them back in the shop more often than their Japanese and American counterparts.

I do recall one magazine saying the best thing about their Mini is that everything that went wrong was repaired under warranty. On a Japanese car, those minor niggles would come out six months to a year after the warranty ended, not six months after you buy the car.

Of course, the same magazine says that they still loved the Mini. Reliability isn't the number one reason people buy cars like that, I guess.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Quikpost ; Ive seen the Phaeton in the skin and i almost mistook it for a Passat , the Passat is simply huge compared to the previous model , the Phaeton if anything should have been given a longer wheelbase , get it to compete w/ the 7-series more directly seeing as they've taken the humble family Passat into bimmer county .

 

[Raghavan]

In South Africa, VW still make a hybrid mk1/mk2 Golf GTi (although i dont think it's called the Golf) which is sub 1000kgs yet has a modern 'parts bin' interior. They sell it very cheaply and it costs little to insure or fuel since it has a 1.6 engine like the original GTi.

I'll google it and try to find a link...

*Edit*
It's known as the Citi Golf 'VeloCiTi 1.6i':
http://www.vw.co.za/models/model_detail.jsp?modelName=citiGolf

A Mk2 front with a Mk1 back with what looks like a Modern Polo or Lupo interior - those crazy SA's!

And that's what VW should go back to. A 4wd (or RWD) performance model with a bigger engine would be probably the most fun you can buy.
And VW should've realized not to build the Phaeton after the Passat W8 4-MOTION failed to sell, even though that was a lovely car!

 

[Tornado]

And that's what VW should go back to. A 4wd (or RWD) performance model with a bigger engine would be probably the most fun you can buy.
And VW should've realized not to build the Phaeton after the Passat W8 4-MOTION failed to sell, even though that was a lovely car!

Well, the Passat W8 was slightly different, as it required a complete retooling of the front of the chassis to get it to fit, which raised the price considerably higher than it should have been, and it really wasn't actually worth it because the Passat went just as fast or slower than the V6 one. The Phaeton was just an excericise to see if a Volkswagon could sell in an Audi segment.

 

[Raghavan]

Well, the Passat W8 was slightly different, as it required a complete retooling of the front of the chassis to get it to fit, which raised the price considerably higher than it should have been, and it really wasn't actually worth it because the Passat went just as fast or slower than the V6 one. The Phaeton was just an excericise to see if a Volkswagon could sell in an Audi segment.

But the Passat W8 was the first car from VW that was designed to sell as an upmarket car. It even competed in the Audi/BMW segment, with the 3 and A4 in price, and the 5 and A6 in size. VW saw that it didn't sell well, but they still imported the Phaeton, despite the fact that the W8 flopped. Why they still imported the Phaeton after the Passat flop is still a mystery to me. It was plain that people still didn't like an upmarket 'people's car'.

 

[Wolfe]

Quikpost ; Ive seen the Phaeton in the skin and i almost mistook it for a Passat , the Passat is simply huge compared to the previous model , the Phaeton if anything should have been given a longer wheelbase , get it to compete w/ the 7-series more directly seeing as they've taken the humble family Passat into bimmer county .

I can definitely agree with the Phaeton <--> Passat issue. Oh well, at least they're handsome cars (IMO).