Wall riding in today's daily races

[Sofia Speed]

I consider it cheating!
If it’s not then it’s considered corruption, taking advantage of a loophole against the true purpose of the game, real racing simulator.
That’s why I avoid going on those races...
The same is happening on Race C today, 6 laps on Yamagiwa+Miyabi Gr4 where “cheaters” are entering and exiting the pit without stoping and coming out with, what it looks new tires.
Few races I did today, no pit needed, but I saw some players in front of me entering the pit, I pass them while their inside but then I see them 3 seconds behind me and coming fast, catching everybody in less than a lap!
On a next race I got behind one of the same drivers who did it in a previous one and confirmed, as he entered the pit I kept on the track but slowed down, he went inside and came out, not even 5 seconds and it looked like he had new tires!
Is this real? Or am I wrong?
If it is true, isn’t this a type of cheat?

 

[baldgye]

taking advantage of a loophole against the true purpose of the game

haha sorry, but that line really drew some serious parallels to actual racing

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If you think online cheating is the same as a money glitch, it's probably for the best

Definition of cheat
intransitive verb
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery
b : to violate rules dishonestly

• cheat at cards

• cheating on a test

It seems that YOUR definition of a cheat is someone that that does something which in this case is uses the full extent of what the game is allowing on a certain circuit that you deem an action you do not like or agree with.

It really makes no difference if such action is online or offline exploiting what the game allows whether it be deemed ethical behavior by others playing the game or not still does not meet the terms to be cheating and I do not think it is right to label a player doing so as a cheater whether it be wall riding, cutting curbs that the game allows or rubber banding to gain credits or levels.

Some people claim that using CSA, ASM, TCS and so forth is gaining an unfair advantage in online races and therefore are cheating. Again as long as the game allows it it is not cheating whether you like the practices or not.

Personally I do not use the Tokyo circuit as I do not think it is a proper racing venue so this particular item effects me in no way. I also do not use glitches to advance my driver levels or in game currency but I do wonder how many people that complain about this have used the speedway wall riding glitch to gain levels and currency but think that is okay?

But still explain to me how riding the wall is a cheat, the racer exploiting such is still racing the full distance and same number of laps as a racer not riding the wall. No different than choosing any other racing line or tactic which pushes the envelope of what the game allows such as corner cutting to maximum without being penalized. All racers have the option to do the same tactic without penalty while running full race distance.

Now in my way of thinking a cheat is the one that hangs back and does the pit lane exploit to gain the lead as that person is violating the rules dishonestly to gain an advantage of leading the race while running less than race distance compared to the other racers. That tactic is not available to all racers in the race therefore is a clear case of cheating.

I am not in favor of the actions or behaviors being used, only have a problem with people that do utilize such practices being labeled as a cheat. I think being called out for cheating is a serious offense that should be reserved for actual cheaters not those pushing the limits of what the game allows whether another person likes or agrees with their actions has no bearing.

 

[Tekku]

What's even worse are the people who say it's your own fault for driving on the track, as if it's some kind of righteous punishment for your bad taste in tracks. That attitude is beyond stupid and it needs to stop immediately.

 

[marcvic]

At the Tokyo tracks, every time I scrape a wall, any wall, I get a penalty! How are guys “wall riding”?!?!?

Yeah same here.. Maybe you have to insert yourself to the wall before the corner in a way that there's no collision?

Can anyone who's witnessed the wall riders explain how they are able to get away with it?

 

[kilesa4568]

I have said all about this matter that I am going to say.

...until now...

It seems that YOUR definition of a cheat is someone that that does something which in this case is uses the full extent of what the game is allowing on a certain circuit that you deem an action you do not like or agree with.

Christ on a bike...

No... My version of cheat isn't the fact that people are wall riding and getting away with it. It's that they're doing it against other people in an online race to gain an advantage over them. I did specify that. Several times.

as long as the game allows it it is not cheating

There's a huge difference between allows and unaware it's happening through a coding weakness. Game's don't cheat though. People do.

but I do wonder how many people that complain about this have used the speedway wall riding glitch to gain levels and currency

No idea. I just hand braked a lot.

Rubber banding isn't for me but I've no problem with it as it's an offline practice.

But still explain to me how riding the wall is a cheat, the racer exploiting such is still racing the full distance and same number of laps as a racer not riding the wall. No different than choosing any other racing line or tactic which pushes the envelope of what the game allows such as corner cutting to maximum without being penalized. All racers have the option to do the same tactic without penalty while running full race distance.

See my first line. Pay particular attention to people, online and gaining an advantage.

Now in my way of thinking a cheat is the one that hangs back and does the pit lane exploit to gain the lead as that person is violating the rules dishonestly

How is wall riding any different? Both methods used online improve the drivers position.

There's no justifying it. Wall riding is cheating when it's done online.

 

[NJ72]

Can anyone who's witnessed the wall riders explain how they are able to get away with it?

I said it earlier. The game dishes out a penalty when there is an 'impact' rather than just contact. If you join the wall before the corner, without a defined 'thump' then you won't get a penalty.

In my personal thoughts, the game shouldn't dish out a penalty in this scenario, as then honest people drifting wide would get a penalty also, but the walls should have a much greater impact on your speed. If the drivers using the exploit ended up worse off then they wouldn't do it.

In response to the above wall of text, you have contradicted yourself:

1 a : to practice fraud or trickery

The players are exploiting a loophole in the game's code. Everybody here knows that it is not in the spirit of racing and that PD did not design the track to be used in this way. They are using, by your definition above, trickery to gain an advantage. And are thus cheaters.

Using the track limits to the very letter of the rules is one thing, but utilising an exploit in code is no different to cheating. It's like saying that hacking in to someone's machine is 100% legal because the software developers left an exploit in the code. It's still hacking, because it is using trickery/ dishonesty to access or achieve something that you shouldn't.

It's no different to me.

 

[baldgye]

The players are exploiting a loophole...

This is racing... this is what racing drivers and teams do... what are you chatting mate

 

[kilesa4568]

This is racing... this is what racing drivers and teams do... what are you chatting mate

We're talking about a game. The operative word in your quote of NJ72 is 'players'. No racing drivers or teams are involved.

What are you chatting?

 

[baldgye]

We're talking about a game. The operative word in your quote of NJ72 is 'players'. No racing drivers or teams are involved.

What are you chatting?

A racing game... where the goal is to be the fastest... I don't remember seeing these same posts/threads when people learnt you could cut the chicane at Dragon Trail.
Riding the walls is no different to cutting corners. If PD decided to do a poor job with that and a poor job with the wall penalties then, if you want to be the fastest, take advantage of that and set the fastest time!

If you don't, avoid those tracks and have done. That's what I'm chatting.

 

[kilesa4568]

To save me a shed load of time, read what I said to VFOURMAX1.

It's a lot easier than arguing with another person with blurred ethics.

 

[Outspacer]

In my personal thoughts, the game shouldn't dish out a penalty in this scenario, as then honest people drifting wide would get a penalty also, but the walls should have a much greater impact on your speed. If the drivers using the exploit ended up worse off then they wouldn't do it.

Makes some sense, but then you would have people braking late (or not at all) and hitting the wall at the end of the braking zone to slow down instead.

Possibly a better solution would be to make the wall a bit less of a smooth curve, although that would look and feel less realistic. Mind you, realism be damned when you have an indestructible car!

 

[NJ72]

This is racing... this is what racing drivers and teams do... what are you chatting mate

The main difference, there, is that it is still cheating even in the real world. It's just in the real world penalties get levied on them retrospectively. We don't have that in GT Sport. Just because it happens in the real world doesn't mean it isn't cheating...

 

[baldgye]

To save me a shed load of time, read what I said to VFOURMAX1.

It's a lot easier than arguing with another person with blurred ethics.

Sorry, I can’t read that post, my blurred ethics make reading hard from time to time.

 

[jagenigma]

I consider it cheating!
If it’s not then it’s considered corruption, taking advantage of a loophole against the true purpose of the game, real racing simulator.
That’s why I avoid going on those races...
The same is happening on Race C today, 6 laps on Yamagiwa+Miyabi Gr4 where “cheaters” are entering and exiting the pit without stoping and coming out with, what it looks new tires.
Few races I did today, no pit needed, but I saw some players in front of me entering the pit, I pass them while their inside but then I see them 3 seconds behind me and coming fast, catching everybody in less than a lap!
On a next race I got behind one of the same drivers who did it in a previous one and confirmed, as he entered the pit I kept on the track but slowed down, he went inside and came out, not even 5 seconds and it looked like he had new tires!
Is this real? Or am I wrong?
If it is true, isn’t this a type of cheat?

the race was just long enough to empty 1 tank of fuel. Tires on the other hand would be almost undrivable depending on your skill level and changing tires only takes about 5 seconds.

 

[kilesa4568]

Sorry, I can’t read that post, my blurred ethics make reading hard from time to time.

Weak.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The main difference, there, is that it is still cheating even in the real world.

Watch a Nascar race and watch a driver go wide on a fast oval and rub the wall all the way around the corner and see if the driver gets a black flag or any type of penalty for illegal actions or cheating as a result. You will be sadly disappointed as you wait for the "cheater" penalty to be displayed so your argument that it is cheating in the real world is null and void.

The difference is in the real world the damage sustained to the car far more negates the advantage that using the wall as a guide provides. The car has never left the confines of the speedway or limits of the track so it is not cheating, all drivers can ride the wall if they prefer. Same in the game is there should be something detrimental to prevent the practice of wall riding to be a lucrative choice.

My argument here is not whether the allowance of the game to ride the wall without consequence should be allowed or is even ethical in the spirit of the the game as intended but that the action IS NOT ONE OF CHEATING.

Just because you do not like or condone an action allowed by the game does not make it right to call people that are using those limits as cheaters.
That is my argument here and it will not change.

Playing the game within the limits of what the game allows is not cheating, maybe exploiting limits at most and regardless of whether you like it or not that is the fact of the matter and cannot be twisted otherwise due to personal preferences.

 

[NJ72]

To each their own, we're clearly not about to change eachother's opinions on the matter - which is obviously fine - I think it comes down to our personal interpretations of the term cheating.

To me, using an unethical practice/ loophole to gain an advantage is cheating. In the absence of damage then there is a loop hole in the game's code which makes this possible, even when it is not designed to be allowed.

I don't think it's designed, or should be possible. The people who do it know that they shouldn't be which is the key thing for me. Unethical, cheating, exploitation - call it what you want, it shouldn't be happening.

 

[Veinz]

It's blatant cheating.

 

[Pedinhuh]

I'm surprised to see people still playing Sport races at those tracks...But I'm even more surprised to see people from here defending by saying it isn't cheating and downright comparing it to what happens at NASCAR in real life.

But they forgot that in GT you don't have extensive car damage like you have in real life, if you hug a wall your car drives away from it like nothing happened, whereas in real life you can end up with your tires, rims, side mirrors and some other parts damaged, besides the fact that you will be going slower because the surface of the wall creates a lot of drag on the car's movement, whereas in GT said drag is almost non-existent because there's no damage physics.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But they forgot that in GT you don't have extensive car damage like you have in real life, if you hug a wall your car drives away from it like nothing happened, whereas in real life you can end up with your tires, rims, side mirrors and some other parts damaged,

The difference is in the real world the damage sustained to the car far more negates the advantage that using the wall as a guide provides.

What part of the above quote did you fail to read from the earlier post?

 

[John Crellin]

Guys, i tried this about 10 times in a custom race after reading this and each and every time i received a penalty for it. As for the penalty free wall riding that was mentioned above, I tried not receive a penalty by being more smooth and not bumping the wall bad but i still got the penalty. This tell me that it would be very difficult to pull this off in a race and not receive the penalty. Therefore, since you get penalized for this action and it is an option available to all racers then it becomes a race specific strategy. So strictly speaking, it is not an unfair advantage.

Now, I agree that this strategy is not in the interest of clean play or in the spirit of the game. Therefore it should be banned. But it isnt, and there are no rules that i am aware of that this breaks. SOOO.... technically this is not cheating its just bad form and an arcade-y thing to do which would ruin the race for me if i did it or some one did it to me.

HOWEVER... I agree they should fix this by increasing the resistance that that wall has or adding concrete blocks to straight up wreck the players trying the maneuver. Until then it will remain an unsportsmanlike strategy (similar to divebombing corners) but not a cheat.

 

[Draggon]

I worked my tail off to get to third place in one of those Tokyo races only to have some guy that was at the back of the field utilize it to pass me twice. He got a podium, I didn't. It reminds me of the chicane cutters during the GT6 500pp quick match at Trial Mountain last year. Losers with a capital L.

 

[Pedinhuh]

What part of the above quote did you fail to read from the earlier post?

Neither, the problem here is that you're taking an example in real life and trying to apply it to the game to justify it, but forgets that the reason why this isn't fair in the game is exactly because of that, since you drive away from the wall without any harm to the vehicle and to your pace.

Here's a thought: When you're driving up a freeway ramp in real life and a tight corner comes up, what's your reaction to it? Slow down and turn your steering wheel to match its direction so you can successfully go through it while AVOIDING contact to the barriers, that's your natural reaction to it and because that is how you normally approach it.

All Gran Turismo titles are based on this logic that you should approach a corner by first slowing down, turning your steering wheel in the direction of the corner, and then accelerating out of it while avoiding contact to the barriers, like any other racing game that is not a full-blown arcade game.

So why in GTS it should be different?

These wall riding folks are exploiting a loop hole in the game, but they are still cheating when you remember the logic and realism of this game.

 

[Veinz]

Going by the logic I see in this thread, this exploit must not be cheating either since "everyone can do it". Meanwhile people are doing it in race C to cheese their way to a win as we speak.

 

[John Crellin]

Going by the logic I see in this thread, this exploit must not be cheating either since "everyone can do it". Meanwhile people are doing it in race C to cheese their way to a win as we speak.

I likethat... Cheesing it lol

 

[kilesa4568]

Going by the logic I see in this thread, this exploit must not be cheating either since "everyone can do it". Meanwhile people are doing it in race C to cheese their way to a win as we speak.

Very quick first lap that they'll no doubt defend. Everyone wants to be faster, by any means necessary right?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The main difference, there, is that it is still cheating even in the real world.

The difference is in the real world the damage sustained to the car far more negates the advantage that using the wall as a guide provides.

Neither, the problem here is that you're taking an example in real life and trying to apply it to the game to justify it,[/QUOTE

Pedinhuh, apparently your reading comprehension and being able to follow a complete ongoing conversation before you insert your comments into it are not your strong suite.

My answer using the Nascar real life reference was a direct reply to a comment made by another poster stating that that such action would be cheating in the real world.

My answer very plainly explained a real world situation in pro organized racing where such action was not even illegal much less considered cheating.

So twice now your replies have indicated you do not comprehend what is written or follow a complete conversation very well that you choose to comment on,

First comment that you made apparently you missed a big part of the comment you were quoting or responding to that riding the wall in real life does cause damage.

Second time you choose to comment you failed to understand that the comment made was a direct reply to a post making a claim that such action was cheating in real world racing so an example was given to show that statement as incorrect. You are the only one applying such to the game.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Going by the logic I see in this thread, this exploit must not be cheating either since "everyone can do it". Meanwhile people are doing it in race C to cheese their way to a win as we speak.

I'm shocked ... that the glitch still works ... that he can use a car that much faster ... from his ass driving ... and from his full ass mentality. I'm not naive though, I know it's everywhere.

 

[John Crellin]

Going by the logic I see in this thread, this exploit must not be cheating either since "everyone can do it". Meanwhile people are doing it in race C to cheese their way to a win as we speak.

Its not because "everyone can do it" that it's not cheating. It's because it's not against the rules. That's all. I agree that the rules should change, but semantically speaking, they are not cheating.

But I'm on your side. This has to stop. A total exploit and a flaw in the Tokyo track that should be fixed.