Was McLaren Right to Ditch Honda? (Spoiler: Yes, Yes It Was)

[Saidur_Ali]

It has been a disaster for McLaren so far, great for Honda and Toro Rosso. They tried to put blame on Honda and make them the joke, now they are the joke. I think in terms of competitiveness for the future it has been a good decision (As long as it doesn't sink them) as instead of being in denial that their chassis can't be that bad, they now know it is and can go about rectifying it instead of self-praising themselves into believing they are good. Also if Renault upgrades come off this season as planned, then they will know they have a competitive PU if Red Bull dominate later part of this season.

For them though to start the hybrid era with the best PU and then identify that as the thing to change to go back to winning ways instead of looking inwards and rectifying why they were so slow the season before and still remained, they have now lost a lot of time to the top teams without a solid reference for a long time.

They have taken growing pains of being a new works partner without getting any of the benefits passing that on to a rival. Also now become a customer of a PU supplier they have no experience with and that was not much more competitive than what they already had as well as a large funding shortfall and a lot of extra work for that privilege. Their rival Renault customer they have not beaten approaching nearly a decade even with an engine advantage so they have their work cut out as the deficit currently is huge, maybe Red Bull will switch to Honda which potentially might help them. They really need to start poaching some of the key figures from the top teams to catch up more quickly and start early on the 2019 regulations which hopefully for them hinders their opposition more and brings teams closer. It is two decades since they last won a constructors title and they seem furthest away now in terms of chassis relative to their competition.

Last race the pace was quite embarrassing really, they have one of the slowest cars at the moment so upgrades next race need to deliver. If it doesn't and they are still in battle to get out of Q1 then I think they will lose Alonso to another team next year. Sure they hit the jackpot in the early races so far but at the moment in terms of pure pace, they will be lucky to score a point. They were about a second a lap off a rookie in a Sauber and many seconds a lap off the front runners, GP2 chassis! Hopefully they can turn it around, they want to be clear fourth best team but it seems battle for them currently is not to end up being the slowest this season and they no longer have the PU excuse to hide behind. I really want them to do well again, sad to see such a team and a driver like Alonso so far from the front teams for a long time.

 

[Liquid]

If it doesn't and they are still in battle to get out of Q1 then I think they will lose Alonso

Really, Fernando Alonso should quit F1 and fancy his chances somewhere like sportscars or mull over a more lucrative Indy calendar. It's such a shame seeing him continuously wasted in the 2010s.

It's totally pie in the sky fantasy but at 36, it's not impossible for him to still win the triple crown.

 

[Famine]

Really, Fernando Alonso should quit F1 and fancy his chances somewhere like sportscars or mull over a more lucrative Indy calendar. It's such a shame seeing him continuously wasted in the 2010s.

It's totally pie in the sky fantasy but at 36, it's not impossible for him to still win the triple crown.

He's also racing WEC this year, including Le Mans.

 

[Liquid]

He's also racing WEC this year, including Le Mans.

10 quid says that when Alonso quits at the end of this year McLaren immediately start winning again.

Edit: Just on four races to four races, this year has been pretty good compared to last year. Race pace and reliability will go a long way to rehabilitating their reputation if they can keep it up.

 

[Dennisch]

10 quid says that when Alonso quits at the end of this year McLaren immediately start winning again.

And Red Bull-Honda wins WCC.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Really, Fernando Alonso should quit F1 and fancy his chances somewhere like sportscars or mull over a more lucrative Indy calendar. It's such a shame seeing him continuously wasted in the 2010s.

It's totally pie in the sky fantasy but at 36, it's not impossible for him to still win the triple crown.

I would rather he concentrate on F1, bad way to leave F1 when he seems to be driving at a decent level still. At least he has a chance of WEC LMP1 title this year in a season where his F1 car is not competitive, if he can win Le Mans this year then he has plenty of time to do Indy 500 and it might become safer the longer he waits. I do think though winning the Triple Crown does not mean as much as if he was to beat the top rated drivers in F1 in the same team, he has probably a few more years in F1 to try and achieve that.

If Daniel leaves to Ferrari, I think it would be good for F1 if Red Bull give Fernando a chance as Carlos doesn't seem that good and Pierre looks like he could do with a few more seasons. Red Bull look like they might need a consistent points scorer as they seem to be throwing away a good chance of a title this season, they have such a strong car already and appears sizeable updates will be made on chassis and PU, it looks like a good place to be to rack up titles or at least battle for them.

2019 regulations should spice things up, seems that it makes billions of pounds of development over the years by teams redundant and maybe if it causes cars to understeer, might not suit current Ferrari drivers much but should suit Fernando given his driving style in his Renault days.

 

[Peter.]

It has been a disaster for McLaren so far, great for Honda and Toro Rosso. They tried to put blame on Honda and make them the joke, now they are the joke. I think in terms of competitiveness for the future it has been a good decision (As long as it doesn't sink them) as instead of being in denial that their chassis can't be that bad, they now know it is and can go about rectifying it instead of self-praising themselves into believing they are good. Also if Renault upgrades come off this season as planned, then they will know they have a competitive PU if Red Bull dominate later part of this season.

McLaren and Honda parting ways does not have to bad for one and good for another. It can be, and is, a beneficial divorce for everyone involved. Honda can develop an engine with less pressure to be great, and less subsequent toxicity from fans and the customer alike, when it isn't. McLaren can worry about making a good car now that the engine finishes races. Not only does it give them the chance to at least benefit from a bit of luck due to for once having some sort of reliability, they can't blame a race winning engine for their shortcomings anymore. Now they have to, and can, because of the reliability concerns being a thing of the past, focus on making a good car.

 

[Grayfox]

Why doesn't McLaren make their own F1 engines?
They make their own sports car engines, while I know they're not even close to an F1 engine, they can still go for it.
They would be better than Honda

 

[adb]

Why doesn't McLaren make their own F1 engines?
They make their own sports car engines, while I know they're not even close to an F1 engine, they can still go for it.
They would be better than Honda

https://ricardo.com/News-and-media/Press-releases/Ricardo-and-McLaren-Automotive-sign-multi-year-eng

Maybe that’s why

 

[RHODRIEWILLIAMS]

I would rather he concentrate on F1, bad way to leave F1 when he seems to be driving at a decent level still. At least he has a chance of WEC LMP1 title this year in a season where his F1 car is not competitive, if he can win Le Mans this year then he has plenty of time to do Indy 500 and it might become safer the longer he waits. I do think though winning the Triple Crown does not mean as much as if he was to beat the top rated drivers in F1 in the same team, he has probably a few more years in F1 to try and achieve that.

If Daniel leaves to Ferrari, I think it would be good for F1 if Red Bull give Fernando a chance as Carlos doesn't seem that good and Pierre looks like he could do with a few more seasons. Red Bull look like they might need a consistent points scorer as they seem to be throwing away a good chance of a title this season, they have such a strong car already and appears sizeable updates will be made on chassis and PU, it looks like a good place to be to rack up titles or at least battle for them.

2019 regulations should spice things up, seems that it makes billions of pounds of development over the years by teams redundant and maybe if it causes cars to understeer, might not suit current Ferrari drivers much but should suit Fernando given his driving style in his Renault days.

So would Anthony Davidson seeing as he's nicked his Toyota Seat

 

[353 Hemi]

Wow! From reading the comments on this article you'd think we were back 10 years when F1 was a parade after qualifying. I'm glad that it isn't that way anymore and all qualifying does is simply determine starting position, as it should, not race winner, as it was.

F1 was really boring for a great many years because there was no passing and qualifying essentially determined the race finish order. Once the first lap was completed, and essentially the first corner, the rest of the race was a mere formality and became a parade. Where was the fun in that?

There is a reason that they actually run the race and not just pack it in after qualifying. What good is having one quick lap if you can't last for 50+? I'm glad to see that McLaren has improved, whatever the reason, because the more "competitive" teams that you have, the better off the sport is.

The better comparison to be made between McLaren/Honda & Toro Rosso/Renault 2017 vs McLaren/Renault & Toro Rosso/Honda 2018 is how many engines have they used? That should be a better comparison because it limits the effect that the drivers experience on the outcome, as some of you are pointing out.

 

[Simmpa]

Incredible that people still thinks Mclaren should have kept Honda despite the night and day difference, even this early in the season I think Toro Rosso will be far down with Williams while Mclaren will be atleast in the top 5

 

[Famine]

The better comparison to be made between McLaren/Honda & Toro Rosso/Renault 2017 vs McLaren/Renault & Toro Rosso/Honda 2018 is how many engines have they used?

That's in the article too

 

[353 Hemi]

That's in the article too

I know, I read the article I think that is a much better comparison as it shows that the reliability issues of the Honda engine haven't gone away. Now it is up to McLaren to sink or swim on their own merit.

 

[Famine]

I know, I read the article I think that is a much better comparison as it shows that the reliability issues of the Honda engine haven't gone away. Now it is up to McLaren to sink or swim on their own merit.

Indeed - and it's more of a concern this year. Last year the power unit allocation was four. This year it's three - and only two sets of the control electronics. By race four last year, the McLaren-Hondas were halfway through their allocation. This year, the Toro Rosso-Hondas have used the same number, but they're two-thirds through - for turbo and MGU-H in both cars, and Gasly's engine itself.

Renault's not without its troubles - both factory cars are on their second MGU-H, and Ricciardo has had two of everything - but McLaren is untouched just yet.

Amazing that it now has the most reliable car on the grid!

 

[FutureF1]

I think this needs to be looked at again after Spain. That’s when, according to the team, the actual 2018 McLaren will launch.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

McLaren and Honda parting ways does not have to bad for one and good for another. It can be, and is, a beneficial divorce for everyone involved. Honda can develop an engine with less pressure to be great, and less subsequent toxicity from fans and the customer alike, when it isn't. McLaren can worry about making a good car now that the engine finishes races. Not only does it give them the chance to at least benefit from a bit of luck due to for once having some sort of reliability, they can't blame a race winning engine for their shortcomings anymore. Now they have to, and can, because of the reliability concerns being a thing of the past, focus on making a good car.

Like I said, it is still good for McLaren in a way for being a reality check and Renault also look like this season will finally get up there with the best PUs. However they have given up works status which was a major reason from moving away from the best PU and also a lot of funding (Going to be important for developing chassis) and have also lost further ground integrating a different PU. They have found out that it is their chassis is so far behind the opposition rather than the PU which was a lot of their hope of being competitive again this season was based on. I think they still have reliability concerns going by what happened to Daniel in Bahrain and also to them in testing.

They also have less of a budget than the top teams but a lot more than most of the midfield teams yet last race they were well behind even Sauber on pure pace! It will be hard to attract sponsors if you are the ones struggling to make it out of Q1 when there are midfield teams like Force India who are doing an amazing job making their car perform quite close to the top teams with the budget they have.

It has worked out extremely well for Honda on the other hand, nearly facing exit out of F1 after spending a lot of money and losing credibility to now potentially partnering up with Red Bull who probably have the best chassis at a lesser cost to them. The pressure is probably even more so now to make sure they get that chance to fight for victory again. They also achieved their best result in hybrid era with a less funded midfield team with little time to integrate the PU finishing well ahead of works Renault team and McLaren on merit, they have reached Q3 this season unlike McLaren who last achieved that feat with Honda power. I hope McLaren can turn it around with their updates next race, at the moment it seems they will largely struggle to get into the points, finish on lead lap and make it to Q3 on pure pace this season.

Why doesn't McLaren make their own F1 engines?
They make their own sports car engines, while I know they're not even close to an F1 engine, they can still go for it.
They would be better than Honda

Honda are the largest manufacturer of engines, the amount of money they put in and facilities they have will be hard to compete against for smaller organisations (McLaren & Ricardo are minnows in comparison). I found it really impressive the rate Honda can develop. Renault are also a top manufacturer, the new Mercedes A Class for example will largely use Renault petrol and diesel engines. The level of complexity, time involved and costs should not be underestimated at the moment, not a surprise that teams with biggest budget and full works team from the start of the era have the best PUs. The others are playing catch up but there appears to be convergence which is good to see.

McLaren have not been able to make a decent F1 car for so many years which should be their speciality. More of their concern should be getting budget and personnel to achieve that. I think a lot more chance Honda creating a new F1 team that will beat McLaren. Honda last car they designed ended up being a championship winning car. Maybe next regulation will be more affordable but still to beat PU manufacturers who have so much resource and experience will be unlikely and it won't be any good if car is slow like they showed in 2013 and 2014 when they had the top PU.

So would Anthony Davidson seeing as he's nicked his Toyota Seat

He doesn't seem bitter about it at least: Alonso now "one of the lads" at Toyota - Davidson

 

[Mad Matt]

Personally, while I find the article interesting and clear, F1 is a complex sport. It seems that this year's McLaren creates too much drag which is why they don't do well in the speed traps. Of course this year's car is not the same as last year's so it could be that the problem wasn't there last year and all the problems were really down to Honda or it could be a problem they carried over...... in fact the cars change quite a lot almost every race with new parts.

Even if the speed trap times come up it could be that the team are sacrificing down force. As far as I know you need to analyse the engine sounds and GPS tracks to get a real idea of engine performance unless you've got access to the team's data.

So, I'm not sure we can say that last year's McLaren suffered due to aero/chassis problems and that Honda are off the hook. What is clear is that reliability has been much better.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Regardless of the results, the relationship between Honda and McLaren rotted too far. They had to split to benefit.

 

[353 Hemi]

P8 for Alonso in qualifying see how he does in the race tomorrow.