Week 58 Results

[daan]

Originally posted by rickstar
am I doing something wrong??

There is something you're not doing. It's called the "tranny trick"

1. Put auto somewhere in the middle.
2. Put final all the way to the right.
3. Put auto all the way to the left.
4. Adjust final so that your gears are topping out at the end of the longest straight

To adjust gears, move the sliders on each gear. Do not touch Auto. Moving Auto means the whole procedure will have to be repeated.

 

[Gt3Emperor]

Sorry rickstar.
-------------------------------------
There is some really good learning in the data everyone has been so kind to reveal their set-ups. I think that would really help people after the race to improve and learn some new tricks from the big boys.

Or you can evaluate where you may have gone off into the wrong direction in set-up. This feed-back would be nice after every race!

I'll post mine a little later after I get back home. I made the same mental error that Scuderia229 says he made.....I lost way to much on the Tarmac section. Probably as much as .750 seconds.

Good run there Scuderia229...I knew we were close in time, but I'd have to say you really ran way over the top considering your division. Or course, the same goes for Redline Fox and HighonPSI.

 

[Gt3Emperor]

My set-up:

5.0/14.0
125/125
10/10
10/10
2.6/2.4
-1.0/0
1/5
9/9
60/60/5
3.455
2.521
1.930
1.501
1.227
1.005 Auto 18 141 mph across the finish line
4.440? I'll have to check on this...


.......Gt3Emperor / Redline Fox
sector 11=4.091 / 4.028
sector 12=4.997 / 4.642.....+.355
sector 13=7.923 / 7.628.....+.295
sector 14=4.833 / 4.712.....+.121
______________________________
total lost in last 3 sectors = +.771
.........Race time submitted =1:09.352
Resultant time improvement=1:08.581 potential time

So, I found my biggest problem...the improvement in the last 3 sectors would have put me in 4th place!

I 'BLEW' that big time!

 

[rickstar]

Originally posted by daan
There is something you're not doing. It's called the "tranny trick"

1. Put auto somewhere in the middle.
2. Put final all the way to the right.
3. Put auto all the way to the left.
4. Adjust final so that your gears are topping out at the end of the longest straight

To adjust gears, move the sliders on each gear. Do not touch Auto. Moving Auto means the whole procedure will have to be repeated.

in step 3 u said put "auto" all the way to the left, and then right above, u say "Do not touch Auto". i haven't tried this yet, but just reading it is confusing me.

no apologies needed Emp.

i agree, it's good to see how freely ppl are volunteering their settings after the race. if last weeks race was tarmac, and didn't have such an insane jump in the beginning, i'd prolly go back and try to improve my times using the settings from the top place finishers.

 

[eggmann]

Daan means after you move auto all the way left, don't move it anywhere else.

 

[eggmann]

I'll join in the Sector comparison...

Below is a copy of Redline Fox's Sectors, mine next to them in italics, sector difference, and (cumulative difference).

Sector/Time
S1 0'05.264 5.191 -0.073
S2 0'03.366 3.287 -0.079 (-0.152)
S3 0'04.890 4.678 -0.212 (-0.364)
S4 0'03.782 3.839 +0.057 (-0.307)
S5 0'05.396 5.334 -0.062 (-0.369)
S6 0'07.924 8.001 +0.077 (-0.292)
S7 0'04.327 4.355 +0.028 (-0.264)
S8 0'03.185 3.243 +0.058 (-0.206)
S9 0'04.787 4.939 +0.152 (-0.054)
S10 0'04.670 4.807 +0.137 (+0.083)
S11 0'04.028 3.957 -0.071 (+0.012)
S12 0'04.642 4.647 +0.005 (+0.017)
S13 0'07.628 7.557 -0.071 (-0.054)
S14 0'04.712 4.730 +0.018 (-0.036)
(The lost sector at the end which doesn't show on replay has me at -0.012 seconds)

 

[daan]

Originally posted by eggmann
Daan means after you move auto all the way left, don't move it anywhere else.

That's it

 

[Old Geezer]

GREAT to see the "Rediscovered" concept of "Sharing & Learning" here at the "Weekly"! To that end I've added my times to those of Reline Fox & eggman. I've also included my chassis numbers which I believe illustrates how different drivers can get VERY Similar results with different Set-ups.

Below is a copy of Redline Fox's Sectors, eggman's next to them in italics, UB57's in "Black" if my time was "Between", in "Red" if I was "Slowest" & in "Blue" if I was quickest.

Sector/Time
S01 0'05.264 / 5.191 / 5.379
S02 0'03.366 / 3.287 / 3.442
S03 0'04.890 / 4.678 / 4.667
S04 0'03.782 / 3.839 / 3.830
S05 0'05.396 / 5.334 / 5.389
S06 0'07.924 / 8.001 / 7.877
S07 0'04.327 / 4.355 / 4.407
S08 0'03.185 / 3.243 / 3.123
S09 0'04.787 / 4.939 / 4.887
S10 0'04.670 / 4.807 / 4.683
S11 0'04.028 / 3.957 / 4.002
S12 0'04.642 / 4.647 / 4.635
S13 0'07.628 / 7.557 / 7.619
S14 0'04.712 / 4.730 / 4.738

Xsara Final Set-Up Which is basicly RedlineFox's w/a little "Tweaking"
6.3/10.0
105/105
10/8
10/10
1.0/0.0
-0.5/-0.5
2/1
Brakes: 9/18 (In an effort to get the rear end to "Come Around")
LSD: 5/5/5
Trans: Same as "ODP's" although I figured it out independently. You "Gotta" Keep the Xsara "Up On The Pipe!"
DF: Max

Great Racing with you all this Week! ...UB57

 

[eggmann]

Here's my setup (mostly LDM's w/ GT3mich's gears and egg's Ride Height):
SR 3/3
RH 160/160
Shocks 10/10/10/10
Camber 3.4/0.4
Toe 0/0
Stab 1/7
BB 3/1
LSD 45/50/30
tranny
3.455
2.521
1.930
1.541
1.279
1.115
Final 4.0/Auto 18
DF Max

 

[Redline Fox]

Considering the differances between my own setup and yours Eggman, it is good to see that I was'nt that far off. Goes to show that there is'nt always one means to an end.

 

[HareTurtle]

Originally posted by eggmann
BB 3/1

I guess the brakes really aren't for slowing the car down!

I've never seen brakes set up like that. Granted they don't get much use on this course, but why so low?

 

[eggmann]

Originally posted by HareTurtle
I've never seen brakes set up like that. Granted they don't get much use on this course, but why so low?

LDM actually set them like that, but the reasoning is so the tires will be able to devote more traction to turning while braking, and also so the tires don't lock-up as quickly.

GT3 treats the BB Controllers as an Anti-lock Brake System, and the lower the numbers, the "more" the ABS system works.

On dry tarmac, a higher setting usually produces better results, since locking the tires and skidding is the quickest way to stop.

 

[GT3mich]

I've been setting my Rally cars like that for a while. It was during the WRS that eggmann and I ran at Swiss Alps that I started messing with the 3/1 brake bias. I noticed that with it set up this way, it slowed the car enough and allowed the back end to swing just enough to keep the car pointed in the right direction.

 

[HareTurtle]

Thanks for the explanations guys. I'll give that a try next time I hit the dirt.

I've always been a little mystified about what the BBC was actually doing. Though I would have thought, in the real world at least, that the whole point of an ABS system is that locking the wheels and skidding is not the fastest way to stop the car.

 

[scuderia229]

I ran 1/1 brakes on the citreon. I, through the same process, found that you needed the brakes less for stopping/slowing and more for turning, there were only two places I lightly touched the brakes on the entire course (pre-jump and the transition to the asphalt). I went with 1/1 given I didn't need any extra turning in the tail, the car did that on it's own. The 1/1 gave me just enough "extra" nose adjustment to get the right line into those two turns.

I usually run a Subaru proto with a 5/2 brake balance for the same reasons, though the 4wd car needs a little extra help to swing the backend around than the FF citreon does.

 

[Gt3Emperor]

Good positive feedback!👍

I usually trial & error everthing in my setup myself....sometimes I'm shocked to see what others are using in theirs, other times I see amazing similarities.

With the variables of driving style and driver preference thrown into the mix.....there is always more than 'one way to skin a cat'....whatever that of cliche means.

 

[eggmann]

Originally posted by HareTurtle
Thanks for the explanations guys. I'll give that a try next time Though I would have thought, in the real world at least, that the whole point of an ABS system is that locking the wheels and skidding is not the fastest way to stop the car.

It works the same in the real world as well.. ABS actually increases stopping distance on a dry, flat surface. However, that effect is minimal compared to its benefit in decreasing stopping distance on slippery (wet, icy, uneven, and dirty) roads.

Also, the primary purpose of ABS in the real world is to allow the driver to have control of the steering during braking.

 

[scuderia229]

Originally posted by Gt3Emperor
Good positive feedback!👍

I usually trial & error everthing in my setup myself....sometimes I'm shocked to see what others are using in theirs, other times I see amazing similarities.

With the variables of driving style and driver preference thrown into the mix.....there is always more than 'one way to skin a cat'....whatever that of cliche means.

I agree. You need to know how you drive and what your preferences/style is. I used to think that if I took the direct settings from a car that someone ran fast in I automatically would be faster. Wrong. Last week I re-ran the wk57 race against a few of the fastest div 1 replays, for a few of them I even exported their car out with the MKS editor. I tried to run Apricot in their cars with their setups and I couldn't get within 4 secs of my time with my own car settings. However I did learn a thing or two and went back and readjusted my settings on my car and cut .4 off my overall time within 5 laps.

In the 12 weeks I have been here on the weekly I have learned about my own driving style and the cars/settings that fit me. I have alot to learn but I can at least take a car for a spin and then know what to tune specifically to make it better for me.

The gear ratio/tourque is what I need to learn, I seriously am shots in the dark with that one. For this citreon it is the first time I didn't jsut to the gear trick and leave it at that. I went in and began playing with the actually gear ratios as well to tune to where I was on course in that gear/etc. I think i tuned WAY too high but I learned.

So I pose the question. What makes a good gear tune? High low? Torque, what is it's role, etc?

(I have done searches for that question on here before but since we ar eall sharing so nicely here I ask it directly).

 

[Old Geezer]

Hi scuderia229:
I'm sure there are lotsa guys more knowledgeable about GT3 Trans Settings than myself, but I do know a bit about "Real Life" torque. "Hi-Revving" engines generally have a shorter "Stroke" which = lower torque for a given displacement versus a longer "Stroke" engine of the same displacement. For this same reason the "Long Stroke" version can't "Rev" as high.
I found the Xsara likes to be kept HIGH in the RPM Range & much like a "Two Stroke" engine doen't have much "Grunt" low in the RPM Range. That's why I refered to "Keeping Her On the Pipe" which is an old 2-strokers's term for NOT letting the RPM dip so much the engine "LUGS." HI-Revving 4-strokes & most 2-strokes don't "LUG" well, hence "ODP's" Ultra Close Ratio Trans which keeps the engine "UP" in the Power Band. Hope this "Makes Sense" & helps a little. 👍...UB57

 

[scuderia229]

Originally posted by UB57
Hi scuderia229:
I'm sure there are lotsa guys more knowledgeable about GT3 Trans Settings than myself, but I do know a bit about "Real Life" torque. "Hi-Revving" engines generally have a shorter "Stroke" which = lower torque for a given displacement versus a longer "Stroke" engine of the same displacement. For this same reason the "Long Stroke" version can't "Rev" as high.
I found the Xsara likes to be kept HIGH in the RPM Range & much like a "Two Stroke" engine doen't have much "Grunt" low in the RPM Range. That's why I refered to "Keeping Her On the Pipe" which is an old 2-strokers's term for NOT letting the RPM dip so much the engine "LUGS." HI-Revving 4-strokes & most 2-strokes don't "LUG" well, hence "ODP's" Ultra Close Ratio Trans which keeps the engine "UP" in the Power Band. Hope this "Makes Sense" & helps a little. 👍...UB57

I took me 4 read thrus but i think I get it....

So a car with low torque will rev hi and want to stay high up in the gears. Best suited for circuits that require a mid range top speed but the need to sit on the gas for most of it, not good on stop/start type circuits?

I high torque car will be slower thru the gears but max out at a higher speed/low rev? It will have more grunt on stop/start circuits and offer faster acceleration out of corners but will reach top speed slower?

?

 

[Old Geezer]

Originally posted by scuderia229
I took me 4 read thrus but i think I get it....

So a car with low torque will rev hi and want to stay high up in the gears. Best suited for circuits that require a mid range top speed but the need to sit on the gas for most of it, not good on stop/start type circuits?

Yep, sorry for the multi read thrus, my fingers don't always tie into my brain too well!

Originally posted by scuderia229
I high torque car will be slower thru the gears but max out at a higher speed/low rev? It will have more grunt on stop/start circuits and offer faster acceleration out of corners but will reach top speed slower?

In General I think this is correct, however, juggling the Trans gears to suit each engines "strong points" can get them close in acccelleration & top speed.

The ultimate "Hi-RPM Little Torque" versus "Low-RPM High Torque" comparison: Put a 1000+HP F-1 engine in an 18 wheeler & it might not even move the beast (w/any known trans) EMPTY, while a 250-300 hp High Torque Diesel w/proper trans will walk right off with a MASSIVE LOAD. Which is why modern F-1 cars have so many "Speed" transmissions. Got to keep the engine in the "Power Band" where it's "Happiest" to get the most out of it.

Again, hope I've expressed this well. 👍...UB57

 

[scuderia229]

UB57...thanks for the info.

Off hand...is there any quick way for determining the engine's "happy place"? Meaning other than driving the car around the circuit and trying to gauge what is happeneing can one use any knwledge to look at a car's spec and know that it is suited for a circuit or not?

No worries for the typing/brain disconnect. You've seen my posts I am sure....I am in no place to judge...hahaha.

 

[Old Geezer]

Originally posted by scuderia229
UB57...thanks for the info.

Off hand...is there any quick way for determining the engine's "happy place"? Meaning other than driving the car around the circuit and trying to gauge what is happeneing can one use any knwledge to look at a car's spec and know that it is suited for a circuit or not?

That's a whole 'nother "Bag o' Snakes"
There is the "Shift at the PEAK of the Torque Curve" camp and the "Hit the Rev Limiter in EVERY Gear" Clan. Due to my own 125MX backround I tend to favor the Later but am seeing the error of my ways w/MANY Rides in GT3. (W/"Old Skool" 125cc 2 strokes, my friends used to tease me that I didn't need a THROTTLE, just a "Kill Button" since the only way to ride it fast was 100% Gas or 100% Brake, using all 6 speeds & wishin' for MORE! ) Now I don't pay as much attention to the Tach (in GT3) try NOT to hit the limiter too often & shift when I "hear" the "Rate of Acceleration" flatten-out. "Redline"= MAXimum "Safe" RPM, not necessarily MAX HP or MAX TORQUE. A little "Experimentation" is probably warranted for finding most Rides "Happy Spot." Again JMO...UB57

 

[eggmann]

As far as which cars are best suited for which circuits, there isn't a general consensus that any particular car is best suited for a certain circuit. You should be able to make any car perform well (within its boundaries) at any given circuit through proper tuning. For eggzample, check the Racing-Line records, and you'll find that the "record time" for all tracks in a given drivetrain are set with the same one or two cars.

 

[scuderia229]

Originally posted by eggmann
As far as which cars are best suited for which circuits, there isn't a general consensus that any particular car is best suited for a certain circuit. You should be able to make any car perform well (within its boundaries) at any given circuit through proper tuning. For eggzample, check the Racing-Line records, and you'll find that the "record time" for all tracks in a given drivetrain are set with the same one or two cars.

Ya I know that (not being snotty, I promise)....I was wondering more when looking at a given circuit if there are off hand rules (or thoughts) for what type of car or base properties in the torque and/or engine that goes along with a circuits properties.

example
A faily straight yet up and down circuit would favor a low torque car that stays high in the gear box the entireway. So when looking for said car something with decent HP,low torque and lighti'ish weight is a good place to start.

:-)