What are the worst GT-original tracks? Why? And how do we fix them?

[DC2_Evan]

I 50/50 agree. It's a hit-and-miss for me. If PD fails at one track, like Alsace, they really fail at it so bad. But when they pull it off, like Kyoto and Dragon Trail, it's an instant classic

Personally, I like Alsace, I find it has good flow minus the really tight hairpin. Granted, I don't do many sport mode races anymore. I find lobbies to have at least cleaner racing, although not always the closest.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

What would you say are the best original courses from the older games? And how would you potentially change them to make them work with Sport Mode (e.g. adding a run-off area)?

We should also keep in mind that even if an older circuit isn't too great, it could undergo some interesting changes the next time it's included, as we can see with the Rome circuit - I recall it was changed a remarkable amount between its iterations in GT3 and in GT5/6.

I really do like the idea of the various city circuits that take placed in real cities and locales - Seoul, NYC, Hong Kong, London, Madrid - but I really don't know how well some of them could work. I think it would indeed be ideal if the maximum field of some of these courses was six, just like the older GT games. Any more and things could get real ugly, real fast. As for the super-narrow circuits in GT4 that were limited to two cars, perhaps that could be used for a time attack or rally mode, where there would be staggered launches and your time would determine if you win rather than your position.

Right off the top of my head is Apricot Hill. I think it's fair to say that the track is a classic for many. Personally I still find the downward esses a bit awkward to navigate, but the layout itself is forgiving and Sport-mode friendly. Mid-field raceway is similar in this regard as well. Grand Valley and Deep Forest are also great, but I have my reservations about it because of their tight hairpin first corners and very generous kerbs that PD may look at as part of the track, leading to Maggiore-esque track limits.

Test Course is honestly just a better version of Northern Isle, so I don't get why they didn't put that in instead. City circuits are great; I personally love Hong Kong and all of the Special Stage Routes, but I can't see them being Sport-mode friendly. They're just like Tokyo East in that regard. We can add run-off "holes" like in real-life street circuits where people who made a mistake can go to instead of crashing, but honestly I don't think anyone would use them because it's too much of a hassle to rejoin the track than just crash

Personally, I like Alsace, I find it has good flow minus the really tight hairpin. Granted, I don't do many sport mode races anymore. I find lobbies to have at least cleaner racing, although not always the closest.

I think Alsace caters to a very specific taste. It's not bad per se, but it just reduces the amount of people who like it. I'm not sure if this is official, but GT Wiki suggests that Alsace is designed with a tarmac rally course in mind, which are generally track that I don't like, so there's that

 

[Greycap]

How the talk is about bad original tracks and nobody has brought up Matterhorn yet is beyond my understanding. Perhaps people are actively trying to forget.

 

[MIE1992]

On another note, I wonder if online data would help in determining the popularity of some courses? Like how many players enter a Sport Mode race at a particular track. I wonder if Lobbies could also take data for this, or would a ranked mode be the most ideal for data-tracking in this regard?

(And similarly, I wonder if there's any data that could be examined in regards to the various seasonal time trials in GT5 and GT6?)

 

[Satomiblood]

How the talk is about bad original tracks and nobody has brought up Matterhorn yet is beyond my understanding. Perhaps people are actively trying to forget.

I never even played Gran Turismo 6 (only watched videos) and yet I'd totally welcome this track. I'm just a glutton for punishment.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

DRIVECLUB’s original circuits were amazing. I was just thinking how well some of them would work in GTS

 

[MMX]

I don't really understand the disdain for Alsace

Same here. It's one of my favorite tracks.
I dislike pretty much all city tracks, ever, so they can dump all those.

 

[Lord Protector]

Tokyo in GTS has to be the worst.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

How the talk is about bad original tracks and nobody has brought up Matterhorn yet is beyond my understanding. Perhaps people are actively trying to forget.

Oh, I'll never forget that track for a very good reason.

For GT Academy National finals one year, we had to run that course for our qualifier. Brand new track and game at the time. No practice at all. 3 laps using the Deltawing on sports tires. Slowest driver immediately eliminated. I rarely touched that track ever again.

Personally, I'm afraid of how older original tracks would get butchered to meet FIA standards. Obviously, a few elements of the original tracks were silly (looking at you Cape Ring) but others have their charm and nice aesthetics while still producing great racing. Apply real life standards to a virtual world is something I'm not fully onboard with.

 

[MIE1992]

Personally, I'm afraid of how older original tracks would get butchered to meet FIA standards. Obviously, a few elements of the original tracks were silly (looking at you Cape Ring) but others have their charm and nice aesthetics while still producing great racing. Apply real life standards to a virtual world is something I'm not fully onboard with.

Which is why I'm wondering if maybe they could bring a bunch of old courses back in a future GT game, but only have a particular fraction of them in Sport Mode rotation. So something like Matterhorn or the various city courses could be limited to Single Race/campaign/Lobbies, while perhaps some courses could be modified to have run-off areas so they'd be better-suited for Sport Mode. Alternatively, some courses could appear in Sport Mode, but only as a course that's used for a time attack/rally-esque mode, which I could see working for the city courses that lack run-off areas.

If I were at PD, I'd review all the city courses included in the series thus far, and compare/contrast them to IRL city courses, and see if the original city courses could be modified to be more friendly for Sport Mode. Or maybe even change some of the streets while using the same locales - after all, for the city courses in GT4, the landscapes of those cities are sure to have changed in the last ~14 years. Especially NYC, where a hypothetical newer iteration may have a view where you could see the new WTC.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Personally, I'm afraid of how older original tracks would get butchered to meet FIA standards.

I think at the very least, safety standards are a non-issue. If it is the bus stop at DT wouldn't exist (imagine how many people would literally die there if it were irl)

 

[Josh Ragland]

How the talk is about bad original tracks and nobody has brought up Matterhorn yet is beyond my understanding. Perhaps people are actively trying to forget.

Matterhorn did have some really good sections that I loved

 

[MIE1992]

I think at the very least, safety standards are a non-issue. If it is the bus stop at DT wouldn't exist (imagine how many people would literally die there if it were irl)

On that subject, I'd love to see multiple historic configurations of IRL circuits in a single title. Even if we just included the layouts that've been in the series, there's Suzuka (2003 & 2014), Le Mans (2005, 2009, and the most recent version), the 80s version of Brands Hatch and Monza, plus Fuji (1980s, 2005, etc.).

That's before we get into stuff that could be new to the series, like the far longer Spa-Francorchamps course that used to be around that looks like a triangle - IIRC it was partially a street circuit, in fact!

Then there's also the various changes made to Le Mans in the 20th century - though I wonder what older version of the course would be different enough from the others to warrant its inclusion?

 

[MrBrunoA]

Hating Alsace makes no sense to me. It's a complete track in terms of layout elements (slow corners, fast corners, hairpins, chicanes), it's technical and the bucolic scenery looks great. The argument that it's a fictional track is nit picking, imo.

After all this time with GTS, I came to a conclusion that Dragon Trail Seaside is the only bad design, though I see how it can be a good track to even up drivers of different skill levels, since everyone can be reasonably fast and consistent there. I see many problems with this track, starting with the famous bus stop, which is much more irritating than fun. That turn could never exist in real life, as it's too dangerous, and even if you can master it (which I doubt), it's not fun to go into that turn with other drivers around you. The rest of the track is too fast and rewards bad behavior, imo, a bit like Kyoto Yamagiwa, but worse. How to fix it: move a few meters to the great layout of Gardens.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Hating Alsace makes no sense to me. It's a complete track in terms of layout elements (slow corners, fast corners, hairpins, chicanes), it's technical and the bucolic scenery looks great. The argument that it's a fictional track is nit picking, imo.

I hate Alsace because I don't like the flow of the track, not because it's incomplete (which like you said it isn't), nor because it's fictional.

On that subject, I'd love to see multiple historic configurations of IRL circuits in a single title. Even if we just included the layouts that've been in the series, there's Suzuka (2003 & 2014), Le Mans (2005, 2009, and the most recent version), the 80s version of Brands Hatch and Monza, plus Fuji (1980s, 2005, etc.).

That's before we get into stuff that could be new to the series, like the far longer Spa-Francorchamps course that used to be around that looks like a triangle - IIRC it was partially a street circuit, in fact!

Then there's also the various changes made to Le Mans in the 20th century - though I wonder what older version of the course would be different enough from the others to warrant its inclusion?

Yeah those are good suggestions

 

[Satomiblood]

To me, the worst tracks in GTS are the ovals and those with minimal turning, but only because they're boring.

 

[MIE1992]

To me, the worst tracks in GTS are the ovals and those with minimal turning, but only because they're boring.

Yeah. I think all you really need is Daytona, Indianapolis, and Motegi Super Speedway and that's pretty much it. Plus those former two have infield configurations, so if they return, I don't see the need to bring back Blue Moon Bay and Northern Isle, as well.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I think you've all touched on most of the complaints over the original tracks but one part that bugs me about the original courses is how they feel abstract as if they exist on some weird island that can only be reached by helicopter. There's never any sense of locale as if they belong at the edge of a city or as if they used any sections of public roads.

 

[Gejabo]

Blue Moon, or special stage x

Why would you come up with an oval (or trioval) when you are making a fantasy track?

 

[Castrol96]

CAPE RING!

Boring scenery, could be much more adventurous.

 

[05XR8]

TBH I like Blue Moon Inlay B (the one with the most turns, and least oval part). It's decent - not great by any means. But I enjoy it much more than Alsace. Other than that, you can throw all the other "oval" tracks to the garbage. I really don't know why they are in the game. I would've, if GTS would have had a NASCAR race car group, but since it doesn't have, besides the Blue Moon Inlay B, these stupid oval tracks make no sense for either GT4/TC/SP/GT3/GT300/GTE/GT500/LMP1/GrC/F1 cars (basically all the -real- name of the race categories for the cars featured in GTS). No sense whatsoever.

Wait, the Coffee Bean circuit. That's the one I mean. PD should right click and yes, select "Delete".

*HOT TAKE * Honestly if Macau was a original GT track i wouldn't be surprised that track is as silly as Cape Ring from GT5

I would have thought that, but if you've ever been to Orlando, Florida. There is a park called Fun World or Fun Park. When I lived there 10 years ago, me and my wife took all my nieces and nephews there.
I couldn't believe what I saw and drive on. A go kart track that was elevated(this place a total of 4 tracks of difficulty, from slow go karts to faster ones). It had a spiral decline. Cape Ring isn't too far fetched from reality.

 

[Victoria H]

All the city courses except maybe Rome and Seattle.

I'd honestly take Tokyo Expressway over London and Madrid any day. Surely, the city scapes look great, but the actual racing feels awful in those two.

 

[DJShadesUK]

Exactly. And then you have the stupid left kink right before the last hairpin [at Alsace] which sort of ruins what would have been a great overtaking spot.

That is a great overtaking spot as most people take it completely wrong by trying to straight-line it towards the inside curb of the hairpin instead of following the kink a little longer and thus reducing the angle *out* of the hairpin, reducing the risk of taking to the grass on the outside of the exit, and allowing you to get back on full power sooner.

Dragon Trail Seaside is the only bad design [...]I see many problems with this track, starting with the famous bus stop, which is much more irritating than fun.

You've got to be kidding right? Yeah, it probably wouldn't exist in real life, with the fixed barriers at least, but get it right and its exhilarating. The exit is a fantastic opportunity to make handfuls of time on people if you've got the balls to take it without lifting while everyone else brakes or has a slight confidence lift.

I can do it in Gr.2 and Gr.3 without lifting, although the Gr.3 WRX I use requires being purposefully destabilised in a sort of Scandinavian flick, sliding it away from the barrier on the right. Thats the fun of that section for me; its very high risk but get it right and its very high reward.

 

[TonyJZX]

I feel like blue moon and northern isle is about the worst kind of effort into ovals.

I dont mind the super speedways like Talladega and Daytona and Indianapolis. These should be in as long as the infield courses.

I do get the incongruity with having ovals of sorts but not oval course cars... give us an Indycar and a Nascar I guess?

I do get that running GT3s on them is kind of odd.

About the real tracks vs. PD originals... I would much rather run say Kyoto than say something like Albert Park. There's pretty decent PD course and crappy real likfe tracks.

 

[ScottPuss20]

No point having oval tracks in GT Sport if there are NO NASCARS. I don't even bother participating in Group 3 dailies at Blue Moon, it is a load of crap. Now about Alsace: Look I don't mind it but there are better tracks to drive on. I've only tested 2 cars on it. As for my most hated original circuit in GT, it would have to be Northern Isle. I loved all the original tracks from GT6 and I don't think there was any course I neglected. Northern Isle must be the first GT track in history I've never tested a car on. I've even tested cars on the Tokyo Expressway...

 

[MrBrunoA]

You've got to be kidding right? Yeah, it probably wouldn't exist in real life, with the fixed barriers at least, but get it right and its exhilarating. The exit is a fantastic opportunity to make handfuls of time on people if you've got the balls to take it without lifting while everyone else brakes or has a slight confidence lift.

I can do it in Gr.2 and Gr.3 without lifting, although the Gr.3 WRX I use requires being purposefully destabilised in a sort of Scandinavian flick, sliding it away from the barrier on the right. Thats the fun of that section for me; its very high risk but get it right and its very high reward.

My balls shrink when there're cars behind, risking a crash if I lift or brake too much, or ahead of me, when my vision (I use bumper camera) and timing are affected by other factors. Not that I don't enjoy the adrenaline and tension of races. It's quite the opposite and I love dangerous tracks, but the bus stop is like a russian roulette - too unpredictable and way too risky for online races. I don't feel rewarded when I do it right. It's more a feeling of relief for me. BTW, it's not a matter of skill (my DR is A+) and I can do it flat out in Gr 3 and Gr 2 too, but will try it only when doing hot laps.

 

[05XR8]

Blue Moon Bay is actually wide enough to recover from mistakes and two wide can be done for a full lap.

The main objective is to stay on the black stuff. Brands Hatch is narrow. Two wide is basically on the straights. That's the nature of how it's built.
Alsace is another track that is wide enough to recover from, without run off.

It's going to come down to race craft. S I mentioned above, PD redesigned a couple spots of two original tracks(Grand Valley and Trial Mountain). I read players are upset with the first esses of DTG. I'm fine with it, but what should or how should it be redesigned?
Will that take away the characteristic of that part of the track? It's akin to the redesign of the chicanes at Monza.

 

[Sergio18]

I like Alsace, and I do not understand how someone who does not like the original circuits is playing GT Sport ... But I respect opinions

 

[GT_Alex74]

Madrid is a good track, it's just it's not meant to be raced in Super GT or LMP1 cars. It really looks like some WTCC / WTCR street circuits though, so I think that would be perfect for Gr.4 racing.

London on the other hand is not suited to racing. You could draw a much nicer layout in that city.

But the worst original track overall ? BB Raceway. I mean, NASCAR style tracks might not be my prefered style, but I wouldn't mind them with the right cars and a better collision system. But that flat right kink in the middle of an oval ? Makes absolutely no sense.

Also, the rally tracks in GTS, I don't know, they just feel random and generic.

 

[flamingchariot]

Ovals ...no. Alsace ...what now? Panorama ...get rid of it (as an online track its useless). Yamigawa the same follows (its a pigs ear of a track) all the Blue Moons are awful, especially the Infield. Don't mind the Tokyo's for slower cars like MR2 etc. I like to race on circuits like Nurb GP or Monza or Nurb proper as it seperates the drivers from the boys