What cars "underwhelm" you, in terms of performance?
- Thread starter Turbo
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- Murcie LP710
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- GTP_Cyborg
That's what I'm saying though ("not much"). If you can get the launch right, the rest (at least in a normal factory auto, not a race 'box) is just keeping your foot down and letting it shift at the right points for you. Really, how many tries does it take to figure out you're either holding the RPM too high before dropping the brake or are too deep into the throttle once you're off? But "in a straight line" leaves out details about whether it was a roll race or from a dig, track surface vs street, stock all-seasons vs... anything stickier.
Claimed more power than stock, semi-slicks... has one arm on the window, the other looks to leave the wheel completely for a couple shifts. Action starts at 4:30:
Claimed more power than stock, semi-slicks... has one arm on the window, the other looks to leave the wheel completely for a couple shifts. Action starts at 4:30:
Danoff
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It's hard for me to be underwhelmed by sheer acceleration ability. If a car is fun to drive, I tend to like it even if it's slow. If it's not fun to drive, I tend to dislike it even if it's fast. There was a Carolla back in like... 2008? 2010? somewhere in there that I felt was somewhat dangerous due to its lack of power.
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- Under the Hood
In a car with four seats that is somewhat aiming to be a practical daily while still being bonkers fast, I'd assume you shouldn't have to be Jeff Lutz to be able to use all of its performance. There are many cars that are as fast as the Hellcat but much easier for an 'average' driver to control.
I think some people may have mid-interpreted my statement. Lets remember what we're discussing here:
Sorry but in my mind, a "fast" car has to do more than just be quick from 60-180 in a straight line on a dry track. This one-end all solution that was supposed to blow the competition out of the water is not exactly suited for track days and as fast to 60 as a run of the mill Camaro SS.
This is true until right around 300hp.
On a perfect track, in the perfect weather with a perfect driver I have no doubt they'll run low 11's. But all the tracks I've been to I have yet to see a Hellcat NOT on slicks break into the 11's. It's a classic case of too much power/weight for the chassis/suspension to effectively put to the pavement.
Turbo
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I'm not so sure about that. You're saying no driver skill is required to drive this?
The Caterham CSR260 has significantly less than 300 horsepower, yet it requires a good amount of skill to drive, even in a straight line.
Even cars with automatics, like the E36 M3, that have less than 300 horsepower, can require some skill to be driven in straight lines.
Danoff
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Not being able to move on the roads is dangerous yes. That car struggled to get up to merging speed by the time the ramp would end fairly regularly. If I wanted to pass someone on the freeway, it was tricky to do so without disrupting traffic in whatever lane I was getting into. A lack of horsepower can be a safety issue*.
* Repeat that to yourself over and over. It'll come in handy when you're trying to convince your spouse that you need a 700 hp monster. Also, let me know when that time comes so that I can help you with the "we need a fast sports car because we need to diversify our investment portfolio into tangible assets rather than riding it all in the stock market. It would be irresponsible NOT to have a Ferrari" argument. It's similar to the "I need these tires because I need to be able to maneuver and stop quickly - it's for the children" argument.
Obelisk
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I'm not sure what you're talking about, Danoff. The 2008/2010 Corolla had 132 HP, the current has 136. They're decent cars, but are outclassed by other cars in the same market in terms of power. Makes sense since the Corolla is meant as a city car.
Danoff
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It's hard to tell that you're responding to me unless you link me or quote. I almost missed your post.
I had to floor that car everywhere. Maybe it has zero torque at the bottom end, or maybe mine was broken (it was a rental with less than 10,000 miles). Regardless, I'd stomp the gas, wait for the transmission to decide what it wanted to do for a few seconds, I'd open the door, walk to the nearest starbucks, get a cup of coffee, read the paper, come back, get in, and then it would make a lot of noise and still not go anywhere.
Danoff
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Kudos for the theory. You'd be totally correct except I lived in LA at the time at sea level. However, the real problem is that everyone in LA drives 85 mph on the freeways, so you have to hit the end of the ramp (which is sometimes uphill) going 85 to merge. It's an aggressive scenario for a low-powered car. Overtaking at 85 is also not easy when you're down on power.
ShobThaBob
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- rosooftw
I rented a Corolla back in 2012, and while it isn't necessarily the outright acceleration that bothered me about the car, there was still a vague sense of there being molasses in between myself and the vehicle. Every bit of input I tried to give the car made it react as if I had given it a suggestion of what I maybe wanted to happen in the next 5 or so seconds. I had no problem moving around traffic or staying up to speed (80ish mph) in Atlanta, but the way it did everything was very disconcerting. It wasn't quite the power, but I can completely understand where Danoff is coming from about the car. It genuinely bothered me.
A simple power figure doesn't tell you a whole lot of anything about a car. My woman's 2011 Fit has a good bit less power than that corolla, but it's one of the best cars I've ever driven. I absolutely adore it in all ways. I wish it had 20-30 more HP, but anything more than that would really be overkill for something which is so tossably fun.
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- bramturismo
Make fun of Hondas all you want, but some of the fastest cars I've seen out on the track were little Honda hatchbacks. Nothing's funnier than a Ferrari owner having to point by a half bondo, half CRX go kart
K20s have gotten massively popular in the street racing scene. They put them in lightweight cars, and pretty much pee on all their competitors:
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- Alabamamania
The problem is that California also has a lot of those ramp meters, which are nice when traffic is plodding around at 5 miles an hour (Green light...now you have to let me in!), but utterly craptastic when you now have merely half an on-ramp to try to get up to speed in some bit of low-end rental car. And most of urban California has pretty minimal on-ramps and limited runoff, to the point where they don't even bother fully striping the gore points...1-2, oh, you just have to hammer it anyway!
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- I_powerslide
The Scion FRS/Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ
It's not that it's a bad car, it's fun to drive around corners and with performance tires I imagine it would be even better. But it just feels so slow. It's marginally slower to accelerate than an E36 325i, and inside the car it feels much slower. An extra 50 or so horsepower and this would be a great car, but when you can pick up a new 370z or a used M3 for the same price?
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Speaking of the K20, a few creative individuals on HybridZ forum have created a head for the Nissan L28 using essentially an elongated K20 head.
I think all the BRZ/FRS/86 really needs is either 50 more lb/ft peak torque, or a higher redline with stump pulling gears. Either method would transform the car for the better.
I think all the BRZ/FRS/86 really needs is either 50 more lb/ft peak torque, or a higher redline with stump pulling gears. Either method would transform the car for the better.
UltimateYosh
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- UltimateYosh
Holden Insignia VXR
The Insignia VXR was originally a Opel/Vauxhall and in Europe the only other performance Saloon was the Vauxhall VXR8 which cost quite a bit more due to being imported from Australia. The Insignia VXR looks like it would be quite fast but puts out only 239kW or 320 horses. That seems like enough but when it was brought out in Australia and New Zealand badged as a Holden, it sat in a range where the Holden Commodore SS was cheaper and more powerful thanks to it's 300kW LS3 engine. Yes it is AWD but the Grip advantage wasn't enough to make it even in the same league as an SS in terms of performance.
The Insignia VXR was originally a Opel/Vauxhall and in Europe the only other performance Saloon was the Vauxhall VXR8 which cost quite a bit more due to being imported from Australia. The Insignia VXR looks like it would be quite fast but puts out only 239kW or 320 horses. That seems like enough but when it was brought out in Australia and New Zealand badged as a Holden, it sat in a range where the Holden Commodore SS was cheaper and more powerful thanks to it's 300kW LS3 engine. Yes it is AWD but the Grip advantage wasn't enough to make it even in the same league as an SS in terms of performance.
