- 104
- Canada
What do you think the next Forza Horizon needs?
- Thread starter phillgt2002
- 141 comments
- 15,414 views
- 51
- England
Customisable, garages, buy new garages, customise them, arrange and rearrange cars, basically forza vista but better,
- 28,309
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
What Horizon needs going forward is better integration of its world, the environment, and the activities within. Like TDU, it would better off actually embracing a certain lifestyle and exploiting it to the nth degree: car dealerships, lavish households, clothing, etc. It's already moving in the right direction with some of these aspects already, but I feel it would better off if it stopped trying to be "Forza Motorsport's little brother" and simply be what Motorsport could never be: an outlet to fully embrace car culture.
Going on 13 years and the original TDU is still the benchmark. There are guys from Bizarre Creations onboard; have them inject some more of PGR into the game as well. Horizon can really be this larger than life open world racing game, but it's stuck straddling the lines too much and I don't think it's doing it any favors.
Going on 13 years and the original TDU is still the benchmark. There are guys from Bizarre Creations onboard; have them inject some more of PGR into the game as well. Horizon can really be this larger than life open world racing game, but it's stuck straddling the lines too much and I don't think it's doing it any favors.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
I agree wholeheartedly, and it surprises me that Horizon is lagging behind with licensed clothing in that regard when the first game *did* have such a thing (that teal G-Shock watch on the player character's wrist and kind of bog standard Adidas tees scattered about) and now that NFS Heat is getting into it, also with licensed brands. It certainly would do well to have in FH5.
But then we hit a Catch 22 - we've both already seen people have hissyfits about there being such a greater emphasis on player character customization in FH4, that it detracts from the main game as a whole, and the fact that people don't like getting clothing in the Wheelspins. (I frankly could care less, mainly because this game throws prize money and cars at you so often that it's offset, though it feels strange to have it locked behind wheelspins and Forzathon shop promotions) and I imagine that a greater emphasis on the good life, as good of an idea as that is, and the natural evolution of Horizon as a wide ranging idea, would cause probably even more hissyfits on par with the LEGO expansion because somehow it is an affront to the car culture, as you pointed out.
I definitely agree that this sort of tethering at the hip with FM is not doing it any favors, but lets be real here, there's going to be people seriously complaining and making up a stink like when GT Sport focused mainly upon online racing, and I think Playground is seriously worried about going full hog and going the TDU route and inviting that *********, even though I think they're one of the few developers in the racing game space that can do it well, and make it make sense.
- 2,372
- Italia
- STR3LA
Benchmark for what? The only thing that TDU did good had nothing to do with driving. How many players really care for house interiors or virtual garages? How much time would someone spend using those features? How many resources would be needed to meet today's graphic standards? How much would they need to sacrifice? Because those features also weight a lot.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
Give them a reason to care then, considering what we have now is pointless when they basically only serve as new fast travel points, and sometimes have the benefit of looking at liveries from natural angles in the sunlight.
No, they don't. Like, at all. Considering these things are already in the game, it's simply a matter of going completely full hog with it. And your reasoning of having it detract from the development of other features and cars seems funnily suspect too, considering that as it stands right now, the creation of clothing assets in the actual game has basically been nil since release, and instead focused on trying to improve the game and deliver vehicles.
- 2,372
- Italia
- STR3LA
I remember very well TDU. One thing I remember is I didn't care for those houses. In fact I bought those houses only because connected to the number of slots available for car storage. Is this a good enough reason? Don't get me wrong. Everything that helps improving immersion is a welcome addition to any game. I just think that modeling a fully functional home is a waste of time. Maybe a garage would work better but with 600-700 cars is going to be useless at some point.
I should really stop. This is a What do you think not What you should think thread. It is just that TDU is one of a few driving games that really disappointed me at the point I regret buying it. And I still can't get over it.
Now... I think that the next Horizon game should include a working Odometer on every car!
- 542
- United States
This may sound like a step backwards but I feel like it is one of those cases where you get too far in the whole realism aspect where it then starts to backfire. In this case I am talking about the dynamic weather system. Not just the seasons changing, but the whole weather being too realistic in regard to (in this case) Britain. Since they wanted to make it just like how it is in real life, you are mostly likely driving around when it is very cloudy and not that bright, and it rains much more often. This usually exhibits a dull vibe. In Horizon 3, not only was the map of Australia so beautiful, but it was nice how most of the time it was bright and sunny. To me they don't need to prioritize on working on this aspect anymore in the next installment.
This also points out one of the most important things the next Horizon MUST do (which to me is a major thing Horizon 4 was a step backwards in) and that is to have the location style be like Horizon 3 rather than 4. Despite 4 having far more great driving roads, the choice to have the location setting as a historic place all around was poor. Even the city area is old school. It just isn't engaging. This is one of the reasons why many people including me enjoy Horizon 3 more and often go back to play it (especially during winter season of Horizon 4....ugh). It had the perfect mix of a modern major city near the beach, the outback for off roading, a nice forest area to drive through and some rural areas with roads and highways to connect them all. It was just a nice captivating world to be in. The world of Horizon 4 on the other hand doesn't sit that well with having an old place and then randomly a festival is in the middle playing music. The castles aren't even as appealing as I thought they would be.
This also points out one of the most important things the next Horizon MUST do (which to me is a major thing Horizon 4 was a step backwards in) and that is to have the location style be like Horizon 3 rather than 4. Despite 4 having far more great driving roads, the choice to have the location setting as a historic place all around was poor. Even the city area is old school. It just isn't engaging. This is one of the reasons why many people including me enjoy Horizon 3 more and often go back to play it (especially during winter season of Horizon 4....ugh). It had the perfect mix of a modern major city near the beach, the outback for off roading, a nice forest area to drive through and some rural areas with roads and highways to connect them all. It was just a nice captivating world to be in. The world of Horizon 4 on the other hand doesn't sit that well with having an old place and then randomly a festival is in the middle playing music. The castles aren't even as appealing as I thought they would be.
- 51
- England
The garage thing was inspired by TDU/PGR, two games that are still yet to be beaten
- 2,372
- Italia
- STR3LA
I would never put those games in the same basket. Because PGR was actually a solid game... later beaten by the likes of FM4 or GT4 to name a few. TDU on the other hand was just a mediocre game and was murdered by itself. The sequel was identical despite 5 years of development. Even The Crew which is considered a mediocre game by many is lightyears ahead of it. And the first game came just 3 years after TDU2. Not to mention monsters like GTA. Yeah, sure nobody will ever beat those two games.
- 51
- England
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
TDU1 for it's time was revolutionary, TDU2 was done on a shoe string budget and tbh I don't see as a true successor.
I really liked how there was physical Car dealers in that game that looked legitimate not some underground garage that sells Hypercars.
I do think Horizon could improve if it took some Elements of TDU with it in the future though.
Number 1 for me though is bring back Private servers, I'm sick of randoms sometimes.
I really liked how there was physical Car dealers in that game that looked legitimate not some underground garage that sells Hypercars.
I do think Horizon could improve if it took some Elements of TDU with it in the future though.
Number 1 for me though is bring back Private servers, I'm sick of randoms sometimes.
- 11,791
- Marin County
After playing FH4 for a good amount of time...I think what the next title needs more than anything is care. There are some fantastic elements to FH4, namely the environment and seasons. However everything feels somehow a bit distant, a bit arms length away. In comparison, despite (or perhaps because) the environments are so limited in Dirt Rally...the world feels more authentic and kind of lived-in. I'm not sure if it's a scale issue (roads in Horizon are very wide) or a details issue....something feels unreal about the FH game world. The photorealism is actually quite exceptional...but it's like photorealism of a weird movie set or something. I can't put my finger on it but it never feels particularly immersive.
Other issues: Many of the car models look kind of slopped together. Yes they are generally high quality...but a lot of them (F355, Testarossa, C2 Corvette, Acura RSX to name just a few) don't look correct. Sadly, I think the models of a lot of the cars date back to FM1, though they have obviously been updated. Cars released post FM4 era look basically perfect of course.
More than the model quality, the sound quality has fallen a long, long ways. Even as recently as FH3 there were cars I would drive just for the pleasure of hearing them. I was particularly fond of the sound quality on the 2nd Gen RX-7 - it was basically perfect - that same car sounds completely awful in FH4. I've actively searched for good sounding cars in FH4, and there are very few.
I feel like playground has concentrated a lot on adding features and an almost overwhelming amount of content, in terms of modes of gameplay and events and leader boards and challenges and such. I really hope they take a step back and concentrate on quality for the next title. Even if it means paring back in terms of things like car count. I would absolutely rather have a well-curated (do we need that many Ferraris?) list of 100 cars that are absolutely perfect than hundreds that are mediocre. With a reduced car count, we could perhaps see deeper levels of customization (FH is starting to feel left behind in this regard against the NFS series) and much better audio quality. Each car could feel special and not just a line item to level up. I would especially love to see customizable interiors, especially because many of us probably spend a majority of our racing time in the cockpit view.
tl;dr: I wish PG would take a step back and refocus on quality and detail. I've not sensed a whole lot of care put into a Forza game for quite some time.
Other issues: Many of the car models look kind of slopped together. Yes they are generally high quality...but a lot of them (F355, Testarossa, C2 Corvette, Acura RSX to name just a few) don't look correct. Sadly, I think the models of a lot of the cars date back to FM1, though they have obviously been updated. Cars released post FM4 era look basically perfect of course.
More than the model quality, the sound quality has fallen a long, long ways. Even as recently as FH3 there were cars I would drive just for the pleasure of hearing them. I was particularly fond of the sound quality on the 2nd Gen RX-7 - it was basically perfect - that same car sounds completely awful in FH4. I've actively searched for good sounding cars in FH4, and there are very few.
I feel like playground has concentrated a lot on adding features and an almost overwhelming amount of content, in terms of modes of gameplay and events and leader boards and challenges and such. I really hope they take a step back and concentrate on quality for the next title. Even if it means paring back in terms of things like car count. I would absolutely rather have a well-curated (do we need that many Ferraris?) list of 100 cars that are absolutely perfect than hundreds that are mediocre. With a reduced car count, we could perhaps see deeper levels of customization (FH is starting to feel left behind in this regard against the NFS series) and much better audio quality. Each car could feel special and not just a line item to level up. I would especially love to see customizable interiors, especially because many of us probably spend a majority of our racing time in the cockpit view.
tl;dr: I wish PG would take a step back and refocus on quality and detail. I've not sensed a whole lot of care put into a Forza game for quite some time.
- 11,791
- Marin County
It's just so....frumpy looking.
If you watch this (starts at 22:10), many of the Ferraris in FM1 look off, like they were modeled from reference images (which, back in that era is totally forgivable).
Whats less forgiveable is that, barring the F40 and Enzo which I belive were fully or substantially remodeled, most of the Ferraris that overlap between the 2 games have the same modeling inaccuracies. The 246 looks too skinny, the F355 looks too short and pudgy, the 512TR, 288, and 550 look "wrong" somehow. They're all like 90-95% correct but fall into this uncanny valley that kind of ruins it for me...drives my detail-oriented self insane.
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- 11,791
- Marin County
Ah yeah. The R32 is awful. Same with the S15 Silvia. The FD RX-7's tachometer needle extends clear outside of the dial.
The sad thing is that they must make a ton of money on the FM/FH series. But some upper management type has made some strict rule against improving their old assets as a cost savings exercise, there is a level of care missing. That's my theory at least.
I don't think most people have noticed, sadly. T10/PG have gotten away with good enough since FM3. I ought to do some comparisons....
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- 1,600
- Alhambra, CA
- chop-uh
- Sr Crumbbiscuit
I get the feeling that if they don't update or rebuild all (or at least a majority) of the FM1/2/3-era models for FM8 (and subsequently FH5 and their sequels), they're never going to. Just slap some shiny new 4K textures on 'em and send 'em out the door...
- 45
- The Ninth Configuration
It seems like the more the car list grows, even though I appreciate the ongoing additions, the less each car is highlighted. In GT Sport, there’s a lesser number of cars but the selection seems so handpicked it gives a feeling of appreciation and interest in the specific model chosen, in addition to the amount of detail articulated through the model. In terms of Forza, I got the same feeling with Horizon 2 and it’s bucket lists, which always seemed to compliment the cars with a unique bit of the landscape. I agree with Eunos about possibly scaling back the car selection and I think it would be even better (although probably would never happen) if Forza delivered a tightened car list of basic models with an emphasis on expanded visual and tuning customization. For example an e46 3 series that users could build into an M3/CSL/GTR, or a Carrera which could be built into an RS/Turbo. By placing the creativity and selection on the user end, I think it would really increase the feeling of value and ownership, compared to the lack of difficultly right now in purchasing everything many times over with too many credits or having everyone burn out on cars when everyone achieves them at the same time in the playlist.
The map also feels like it has become lost in its own size, and I read somewhere that this could be due to how the major points such as Edinburgh or Ambleside are placed at the corners of the map, making it feel smaller. I also used to feel it was due to the weather cycle but I noticed when driving in the forest it’s not something I mind at all, it’s when I’m in more urban areas without any people walking around that it bothers me more.
Overall it’s a game I enjoy and play a ton, but as a franchise I think a sense of identity, uniqueness, and achievement has become more obscured in the pursuit of appeasing all ages and breaking down any exclusivity. It feels a bit like a participation trophy and I agree with Eunos that a lot of it could be helped from a more detail oriented design and a return to focusing on car culture.
tl;dr I expect none of this and FH5’s main feature to be the ability to add neon colored smoke and challenges that consist of parachuting your car out the back of a plane alà fast and furious
The map also feels like it has become lost in its own size, and I read somewhere that this could be due to how the major points such as Edinburgh or Ambleside are placed at the corners of the map, making it feel smaller. I also used to feel it was due to the weather cycle but I noticed when driving in the forest it’s not something I mind at all, it’s when I’m in more urban areas without any people walking around that it bothers me more.
Overall it’s a game I enjoy and play a ton, but as a franchise I think a sense of identity, uniqueness, and achievement has become more obscured in the pursuit of appeasing all ages and breaking down any exclusivity. It feels a bit like a participation trophy and I agree with Eunos that a lot of it could be helped from a more detail oriented design and a return to focusing on car culture.
tl;dr I expect none of this and FH5’s main feature to be the ability to add neon colored smoke and challenges that consist of parachuting your car out the back of a plane alà fast and furious
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- 11,791
- Marin County
I wonder if they would ever do something analogous to what Codemasters has done with the Dirt Rally titles. A pared-back and honed-in version of FH. Forza Horizon Black Edition or RS or something clever like that. Add more sim-like physics and environments, no offroading in hypercars, etc.
- 45
- The Ninth Configuration
I would enjoy something along those lines although I have a feeling the devs would see it as unable to reach the mass appeal. At this stage, I would just appreciate if the next game worked at least diversifying the spheres within it. Everything right now feels stuck in either hoonigan/drifting, dirt racing, or drag racing at the highway/airstrip or horribly mangled by cross country even if you’re just trying to play rich guy simulator and have a cruise, and it’s not helped by a dated atmosphere with the EDM music festival. For those that want a more mature experience there should be a track and an area for meetups akin to Goodwood or Luftgekühlt that allows for this, a portion that appeals to people who want to drift, dirt trails for rally and offroad, a portion for those who just want to cruise the mountain roads, and maybe even a way for people in more dense city areas to trigger chases. Something like that would probably most mirror the freedom and individuality of the real world, and I feel like it’s something Forza is shooting for by incorporating stuff like the drag modes and the stories, it’s just not properly fleshed out and I don’t think the current festival theme and location do it much favors either. With the next gen, I hope for something more expansive and truly showcases different cultures instead of forcing them to sleep like cats with dogs (I’m looking at you winter dirt Lamborghini championship).
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- 11,791
- Marin County
I actually fired up FH3 for the first time since the FH4 release the other day, for comparison sake - thinking of this thread. The "fidelity" of FH3 was immediately, noticeably better. The sounds are crisper and more accurate, the level of detail in the car interiors seems higher, the lighting seems better, and even the HDR (I have an HDR TV) seems much stronger as well. Then the sun went down and I remember how beautiful the night sky is in FH3 with the simulated constellations. It's a shame the environment in 3 is so repetitive, because the game is IMO, superior in many ways. Just driving around was such a joy that I have found missing in 4. Anyways, that's enough whinging from me.
- 542
- United States
I actually fired up FH3 for the first time since the FH4 release the other day, for comparison sake - thinking of this thread. The "fidelity" of FH3 was immediately, noticeably better. The sounds are crisper and more accurate, the level of detail in the car interiors seems higher, the lighting seems better, and even the HDR (I have an HDR TV) seems much stronger as well. Then the sun went down and I remember how beautiful the night sky is in FH3 with the simulated constellations. It's a shame the environment in 3 is so repetitive, because the game is IMO, superior in many ways. Just driving around was such a joy that I have found missing in 4. Anyways, that's enough whinging from me.
I always have the same experience with FH3 and I agree with everything you said except the environment being repetitive. I personally like the way it is set out. It shows the importance of diversity, something that FH4 lacks.
- 1,198
- United Kingdom
I have no experience of Forza prior to starting playing FH4 2 months ago and can only really compare it to Gran Turismo (played up to 6) and Need For Speed (played to the one before the 2015 game of the same name) and the car list feels a little bloated to me, almost like they were trying to compete with GT...too many models that are so similar to others or simply not needed (as fun as the VW minibus is, did we really need a Forza edition and a normal version?).
I loved the stories but was disappointed that there wasn't a clear level of difficulty progression....several had their hardest challenge in the middle (the FXX was hardest for me in the Fastest Rental story and it was number 5 of 10). Also, agree with much earlier comments that it would be nice to get a story ending of some sort....complete all the stories, get a big finale championship (after you've done all the Mammoth Gauntlet races, which should all have been championships anyway) or something and then do what you like...it feels too disjointed
Obviously, the biggest thing is the online stuff...I have never really played online before and I can see plenty getting put off when it seems 90% of the players seem to have zero ability at driving and earn their rankings by how many people they barge off the track....there definitely needs to be better rewards for better driving (though I admit not sure how that's achieved exactly).
So, yeah: A much more curated car list; clearer game progression and a finale of sorts; and fixing the broken online system (which is still fun when you get a decent set of drivers)
I loved the stories but was disappointed that there wasn't a clear level of difficulty progression....several had their hardest challenge in the middle (the FXX was hardest for me in the Fastest Rental story and it was number 5 of 10). Also, agree with much earlier comments that it would be nice to get a story ending of some sort....complete all the stories, get a big finale championship (after you've done all the Mammoth Gauntlet races, which should all have been championships anyway) or something and then do what you like...it feels too disjointed
Obviously, the biggest thing is the online stuff...I have never really played online before and I can see plenty getting put off when it seems 90% of the players seem to have zero ability at driving and earn their rankings by how many people they barge off the track....there definitely needs to be better rewards for better driving (though I admit not sure how that's achieved exactly).
So, yeah: A much more curated car list; clearer game progression and a finale of sorts; and fixing the broken online system (which is still fun when you get a decent set of drivers)
- 2,372
- Italia
- STR3LA
There's no competition. Forza Motorsport or Forza Horizon car lists will blow away any other game car list including older GTs. Also Forza Edition cars are just cars with special perks. They put those cars to help players not to boost the car count. Imo.
- 2,117
- Sunderland
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
- 11,038
- Edinburgh, UK
- CMDRTheDarkLord
I'd love the map to be context-sensitive. Yeah, you can filter it, but if I'm in a championship, why can't I see the next rounds for all the unrelated dross that's there?
I'd like fewer rocks that flip/stop you as if they're a 200-foot-high wall of titanium.
If you're going to do a Battle Royale with cars in levels, then at least model the levels of the cars properly - the other day I lost a 100% off-road race to a road-spec car that was 2 levels lower than the off-road spec car I was driving. And no, I didn't crash, I just sat in his slipstream the whole way, unable to get past.
I'd also like a greater level of variety to Forzathon events. They're a bit grindy right now
I'd like fewer rocks that flip/stop you as if they're a 200-foot-high wall of titanium.
If you're going to do a Battle Royale with cars in levels, then at least model the levels of the cars properly - the other day I lost a 100% off-road race to a road-spec car that was 2 levels lower than the off-road spec car I was driving. And no, I didn't crash, I just sat in his slipstream the whole way, unable to get past.
I'd also like a greater level of variety to Forzathon events. They're a bit grindy right now
- 1,198
- United Kingdom
Well, I certainly prefer the car list to GT6...maybe it's the other way round and GT was trying to compete with Forza, hence their bloated 6 models of one car etc...with no prior experience of Forza, I have no basis.
I agree that FE cars are there purely to help the player, not boost count and I didn't mean to say otherwise...I was just questioning whether we need the normal versions on all the FE cars...couldn't we, say, have the FE cars but with the ability to de-tune them to normal levels (so, taking the VW back to a D class vehicle) much like removing any added tune would do? It was just a thought....I will play 5 regardless of what they do as I have been loving playing 4
- 2,372
- Italia
- STR3LA
I am not questioning why people want to reduce the car cout. They have their own reasons. I just don't believe Forza is trying to copy any game. I mean there are limited things you can do with a car game. At the end it's not hard to find similarities with other games in this sector.
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