- 745
- Canada
More realistic, like GT? Or more unrealistic, like Forza 3(NOT Forza 4), to make it more fun?
I vote for more realistic physics. What about you guys?
I vote for more realistic physics. What about you guys?
What do you want the new physiscs to be like?
- Thread starter FiftyBelowZero
- 64 comments
- 4,264 views
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
I would like to see them as real as possible. Fixing the clutch and ABS would be a good start
- 14,430
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
What's wrong with the clutch?
- 745
- Canada
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
...what do you think the answer will be? FM4 already had pretty realistic physics, certainly some of the best this console generation. Not only would I expect players to want them to continue to refine the model for even more realistic results, but I can only assume T10 would strive to do the same thing.
And considering you posted this so recently:
Forza has stupid physics. So unrealistic.
Perhaps continuing down the realism path they're already firmly on isn't what you actually want.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
Other than using a manual clutch makes the car turn faster laps?
In reality the super cars with auto clutch shift much faster than you ever could with a manual clutch but the way it is in Forza the manual clutch is always faster which gives an unfair advantage to all who use it over those who don't. It really should be corrected but most likely won't. I use the manual clutch myself but I have did quite a lot of testing and the difference is very noticeable and not very realistic so if you want realism this should be addressed. Really auto clutch should only be available on certain cars and manual clutch should be much slower on some cars than on others.
Imagion trying to clutch those heavy old mechanical clutches in the big block muscle cars as fast as the computer controlled double clutch in a new super car not even the best race driver could do that but on Forza 3 and 4 no problem just press a button.
- 13,839
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Ignoring the obvious flamebait, I'd like the physics to go more in the direction of Assetto Corsa or rFactor2.
Assetto Corsa feels great to me. Just lovely to drive. No idea if it's realistic, but it does the best job of making me feel like I'm driving a real car.
rFactor2 has the best implementation of track evolution I've played so far, and it is also excellent to drive. Downside being it looks like a donkey's breakfast AFTER the donkey has eaten it, but with some Forza wizardry on the visuals it would be a treat.
If FM5 can get close to either of these two I will be a very happy camper.
- 14,430
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I can recall from every single racing game I've played that I had better times with manual. The reason why autos are so slow is because te horrible shift points, that goes for real life as well. They don't let you stay at the rev limit and always shift early
Also, don't most super cars use paddle shifters? That's hardly automatic. Either way if rather the transmissions be unrealistic then being forced to use auto.
Also, don't most super cars use paddle shifters? That's hardly automatic. Either way if rather the transmissions be unrealistic then being forced to use auto.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
I think you missed my point. I was not referring to Auto trans vs manual trans. I am talking about Auto Clutch vs Manual clutch both are a manual trans. The difference being a manual clutch in a real car would be a clutch pedal where as an auto clutch there would be no clutch pedal. Modern super cars use paddle shifters and and auto clutch. Some use a double clutch system and some of these allow the shift to happen lightning fast where as with the pedal clutch [manual] you have to depress the pedal move the shifter and then release the pedal and there is no way possible that a human could do this consistently if ever faster than what the good auto clutch system would achieve.
Speaking on the Auto trans though in some but rare cases an auto trans can be quicker than a manual in real life but in Forza 3 and 4 if you look at the leader board no one makes it near the top unless they are using manual trans with manual clutch. In Forza 2 there was a mix of Auto Trans users up there in some classes/cars but none after the introduction of the manual clutch. In my own testing in the slower cars I found that the manual clutch give roughly 1 car length advantage for every upshift or the manual with auto clutch and a lap around the ring the difference was about 8 seconds in my testing.
My feeling is that since in the game the Auto Trans and Manual with auto clutch or manual with manual clutch are allowed for all cars then they should not be given an advantage for one or the other other than the obvious advantage you may get by being able to control when the car shifts and really there should be a way to at least partially control this even when an auto trans is selected. The result would be more real that the current method and more competitive across the modes.
- 274
- Cheshire
- Wormgod_
- RPM Bibblefish
lol, more realistic like GT.
please explain why GT has better physics, oh wait you can't.
Agree with the manual clutch, it's worth about a second a lap. They should at least prevent flat shifting by making it cause some kind of mechanical damage.
- 13,839
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I would enjoy seeing a proper transmission model.
As you say, it would be nice to see cars with double clutch gearboxes and the like given them.
I'd also love to see some simulation of the normal manual boxes. Shift too fast on an older car and maybe it grinds and you miss the shift. Something so that shifting well with a third pedal gives a slight advantage over using auto-clutch, but not to the extent it is now.
And then there's sequential boxes where you can shift without a clutch if you know what you're doing, but it can cost you a lot of time if you get it wrong.
Frankly, this is an area where iRacing really does pretty well. If FM5 could come close to bringing that sort of transmission simulation into the game I think it would be great.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
That would be cool. I remember and old Chevy truck we used to have. 1954 Chevy in line 6 with 3 on the tree. If you tried to shift from 1st to 2nd fast the result was that you had to pull over, pop the hood and unstick the shifter linkage before you could go anywhere.
Also had an old Ford 3 on the tree. when shifting from 1st to 2nd you had to move the shifter to the neutral position and wait for a few ticks until you could feel it drop into the lower track and only then could you push it up to 2nd gear failure to do so would usually result in having to pull it back into 1st and try again to go to 2nd.
Also old cars did not have rev limiters to prevent engine damage from over revs. Speed shifting could be catastrophic
- 26
The problem is, that these are not meant to represent what they represent in real life, clutch is designed to be quicker because auto and manual are assisted, and therefore take 'less skill' so make you slower. It's contrived but at the same time it works pretty well, and tbh I don't see T10 changing that. Assists are one of their 'things'.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
Probably not but an ABS thats locks up on you is just stupid and the manual clutch the way they did it is also stupid. Pressing a button on the controller while holding down the throttle or pressing a button on the wheel to gain an advantage and almost everyone I know uses it because of the advantage it gives not because they want to drive without assists but because it assists them to go faster.
- 1,789
- The Motor City
- HAL20xx
- HAL20xx
Well, why would you purposely want to go slower? And how is this any different from all other assists?
I'm all for realism, like LFS or Assetto corsa.
As for the clutch I would hate any artificial handicap like GT5 has when you use the shifter, it is a really bad idea. Also I never had any problems flat shifting cars in real life, never broke a gearbox or caused any damage to an engine from over revving with no limiter, but I can't speak for every car in the world obviously.
The only way to make it realistic to me is either they simulate every cars engine and transmission to a level where it will cause damage exactly as real life (not going to happen) or they just don't have any damage at all. Otherwise it'll just be as if the game picked you out for a failure at random, which seems unfair to me, especially if you are online racing.
As for the clutch I would hate any artificial handicap like GT5 has when you use the shifter, it is a really bad idea. Also I never had any problems flat shifting cars in real life, never broke a gearbox or caused any damage to an engine from over revving with no limiter, but I can't speak for every car in the world obviously.
The only way to make it realistic to me is either they simulate every cars engine and transmission to a level where it will cause damage exactly as real life (not going to happen) or they just don't have any damage at all. Otherwise it'll just be as if the game picked you out for a failure at random, which seems unfair to me, especially if you are online racing.
- 274
- Cheshire
- Wormgod_
- RPM Bibblefish
Doesn't the P1 have DRS and KERS?
I wonder if these will make an appearence as an upgrade option..........not sure i like the idea to be honest but you never know and that P1 does seem to get a good run on the F1 coming out of the last corner in the teaser trailer.
I wonder if these will make an appearence as an upgrade option..........not sure i like the idea to be honest but you never know and that P1 does seem to get a good run on the F1 coming out of the last corner in the teaser trailer.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
It is different in that it is not supposed to be an assist and it makes your car go faster around the track than it should largely because it lets you hold the throttle open while shifting with no damage to the engine or tranny. It is unrealistic and it is unfair to those users who prefer an automatic trans or what realism with paddle shifters.
Personally I would like it to be more real. If you are using a manual clutch then there should be the occasional missed gear or stuck linkage especially on the old cars with stock 3 speed trannys. I also think that Auto / Manual Trans Clutch should not be there as an assist but rather as an option on the cars you buy or as an optional upgrade part where the car did not come with it.
Take the 57 Chevy for example. The stock tranny in that car in Forza 4 is a 2 speed which to me means it is a 2 speed power glide which is an automatic transmission yet you can drive it as a manual with clutch and gain an advantage. You should have to buy it with a 3 speed manual in order to drive it with the manual trans and manual clutch and the shifting when in manual should be slow from first to second when using a manual 3 on the tree because that is the way there were in real life.
Consider the new super cars the paddle shifters and auto clutch should be faster than with the manual clutch.
How about the Volt apparently it uses a CVT but when you are in manual it suddenly becomes a 6 speed instead of a CVT.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,285
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Various physics options would be nice so that you could have the hardcore, ultra realistic physics for the sim crowd and an easier to drive, less realistic physics for those who aren't as experienced with sim racing games. It would cater to more people and allow more skill levels to enjoy the game.
- 253
- Jacksonville, FL
- Tow Mater 66
Remember how in FM4 turn 10 worked with perelli to update their tire model to attempt to account for all the non linearity of tires under load? I'd like to see them take another similar step forward. Pick one or two parameters, and make them great. Maybe they accurately model steering wheel feel for different power steering system types and suspension geometries. Maybe they invest time in their tire model in the wet. Maybe take a high-fidelity look at suspension dynamics.
Like I said, pick one or two, and take some steps forward. That is all I'm looking for.
Like I said, pick one or two, and take some steps forward. That is all I'm looking for.
- 7,582
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
For the same reason you'd decide to do a hatchback race instead of P1 class all the time.
I agree with HBR. This balancing nonsense must stop. ABS and autoshifting and whatever else should make you faster because they make you faster in real life. End. This from someone who uses none (except autoclutch, clutch on a controller is stupid IMO). ABS in particular annoys me, it's so horribly gimped.
- 929
- United States
Forza has always been more realistic than Gran Turismo.
- 13,839
- Adelaide
- Neomone
No.
The correct way to do it is to have one physics for the game and various assists as people need them. That's how it works in the real world, that's how it should work in a simulator.
Almost the same end result. Except that good drivers can't abuse the "simplified" physics to dominate leaderboards and online. They have to dominate through skill.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,285
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
No.
The correct way to do it is to have one physics for the game and various assists as people need them. That's how it works in the real world, that's how it should work in a simulator.
Almost the same end result. Except that good drivers can't abuse the "simplified" physics to dominate leaderboards and online. They have to dominate through skill.
Don't assists just alter the physics in a different way? I mean you can get additional traction, unrealistic brakes, and even auto steering.
And even then just indicate on a leaderboard what the player used to accomplish the given time.
- 745
- Canada
Don't want to start a fight, but probably the only things which are wrong with GT are engine sounds and graphics. Forza has been off with physics most of the time. I mean, really. Are you trying to tell me that a RWD Subaru Impreza will understeer at 40mph? Think about it.
- 2,073
- Fezz_ST
- Fezz ST
Have you ever driven a car? Any car will understeer at 40 mph, depending on a lot of variables like tyres, road conditions, how tight the corner is, what line you take, please at least have an understanding about the argument you are trying to make because I have played both GT5 and FM4 religiously for the past 2 years and can tell you the 100% the physics are more accurate on FM4 than in GT5, the 'lift off oversteer' test I have made a benchmark for all racing games
I used to drive a 2004 2.0 Hyundai Coupe which loved to oversteer in the middle of a corner if you lifted off the throttle, both FM4 and GT5 have this car in some variation and the results of trying to get the car to oversteer in stock form by lifting off the accelerator at even 30 prove to me how much closer to real life FM4 is
- 745
- Canada
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