What happened!?
- Thread starter Darin
- 37 comments
- 1,035 views
Is this true, did he really crash during the caution!? I mean, a driver like him making a mistake like that is just unprofessional.
- 4,274
- New Zealand
- SkylineObsession
- Mangosaurus
Alonso tried lapping Ralf S. through the tunnel (after waiting behind him for seven corners) Ralf sped up as Alonso was passing which meant Fernando had nowhere to go but the outside wall.
That bought out the safety car. On the lap when the SC was due to pit in Michael was 'brake testing/warming' in the tunnel but locked the brake - Juan was right behind him and had to duck to the right and brake to avoid Michaels' sudden stop/slow. But then MS pulled in on Juan which made the two cars collide - Michael hit the inside wall then flew over to the outside wall which Alonso had just finished removing the metal shavings from and smacked up the left front wheel and suspension. As well as the nose cone.
I basically jumped for joy at that moment.
EDIT: Very bad choice of topic title. Read the second rule.
That bought out the safety car. On the lap when the SC was due to pit in Michael was 'brake testing/warming' in the tunnel but locked the brake - Juan was right behind him and had to duck to the right and brake to avoid Michaels' sudden stop/slow. But then MS pulled in on Juan which made the two cars collide - Michael hit the inside wall then flew over to the outside wall which Alonso had just finished removing the metal shavings from and smacked up the left front wheel and suspension. As well as the nose cone.
I basically jumped for joy at that moment.
EDIT: Very bad choice of topic title. Read the second rule.
- 251
His brake locked up and Montoya took him out..
- 2,132
- Costa Rica
- D_Shark10
I was just about to put my head back on the pillow and drift off when I saw the crippled Ferrari coasting out of the tunnel, did that ever wake me up. 
I wouldn't blame anyone for the incident, JP went to avoid Schumacher on the inside and Michael didn't see him there when he was going to resume his line.
I wouldn't blame anyone for the incident, JP went to avoid Schumacher on the inside and Michael didn't see him there when he was going to resume his line.
No - he was warming up his brakes. He accelerated hard and then braked hard after moving over on Monty (probably not deliberately) - in the darkness of the tunnel, whcih is also notoriously slippery. JPM gave him a light touch which was enough to put Schue into the barrier.
There have been previous complaints about Schumacher's behaviour behind the pace car which makes it impossible to sit near him - he mentioned Austria last year, and Button throwing the car off the track at Monza in 2000 as examples.
Look for the GPDA to set some guidelines on this in the coming months.
There have been previous complaints about Schumacher's behaviour behind the pace car which makes it impossible to sit near him - he mentioned Austria last year, and Button throwing the car off the track at Monza in 2000 as examples.
Look for the GPDA to set some guidelines on this in the coming months.
- 13,827
- Down under
As much as I want to lay all the blame at Monty, I think it was both their fault. Monty should have kept a larger following distance, especially if he was gonna "give it a squirt" and Schumi shouldnt have been doing his brake warming in the darkness of the tunnel.
- 5,753
Coulthard this morning was accusing Sato of nearly causing a huge crash that could've been fatal to spectators.
I mean, it was hardly his fault that his engine blew.
I mean, it was hardly his fault that his engine blew.
- 13,827
- Down under
It was BAR's fault if they knew it was gonna blow and didnt call him in.
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
With the past history of the Honda engines, Sato should have been called in on the second lap. Did you see the amount of smoke that belched out during both launches?
Not very smart on BAR's part if you ask me.
Not very smart on BAR's part if you ask me.
Nasadus
Premium
- 2,109
- Netherlands
- Nasadus-NL
- Nasadus
Where is the logic in "Schumacher was warming his brakes",why the hell would he do that?They always try to cool the brakes and now he was warming them,i think not.Basically what Schumacher did was hit the brakes to create a gap between him and the pace car so he can do a burn-out and warm his tyres.At that time Montoya was doing a burn-out to warm his tyres and went too fast to avoid Schumacher.Trying to avoid colliding with Schumacher he went next to him,Schumacher didn't see that and steered back on the inside lane where Montoya was and hit him causing Schumacher to spin and hit the wall.
- 12,298
- Ealing-London
Definatley BAR's fault. Kimmi Raikkonen (sp?) was called in because McLaren knew from the telemetry that his engine was not going to last the race. BAR must have known about Sato's engine as everyone else did becase it was smoking from the first lap. BAR should have called him in. Although I guess with Button ahead of him and the majority of the field behind they thought if his engine gave out then he would slow down the cars behinf him. Which it did in a big way, but also brought out the saftey car so Jensen could not get away.
- 13,827
- Down under
Whilst following the pace car, a F1 car losses tyre and brake heat. No brake heat means less efficient braking until they reach operating temperature. Schumi was probably trying to warm his brakes but braking and accelerating at the same time - hence the locked wheel. A flat spot wouldnt have been that serious, as he was going to pit in the next 5-10 laps.
I agree with you from the blue word on..
- 338
I think that Alonso made a really stupid thing trying to get past Ralf in a tunnel. The next curve would have been a wide one. He could have easily gone past Ralf in that curve.
Did Ralf really speed up? I haven't heard this version of the crash...
And HAH! The Mercedes Benz motor couldn't handle it. Kimi had to stop, AGAIN!!
Did Ralf really speed up? I haven't heard this version of the crash...
And HAH! The Mercedes Benz motor couldn't handle it. Kimi had to stop, AGAIN!!
- 465
OK these are my feelings on the 'incidents'
The engine failure in the BAR was hardly Sato's fault although yes it would have been a good idea to bring him in to the pits earlier but it was the 1st/2nd lap so the team didnt have time to react really just one of those things. On the Alonso crash I think it was 100% Alonso's fault if you looked closely at the replays Ralf did back off Alonso simply got on the dirty part of the track and understeered into the barriers Ralf pulled tight to the right hand side and! backed off. On Shuey and Montoya defo Shueys fault to warm your brakes is one thing but to lock up and leave a 20m black line on the road is quite another
I just think he was trying to out psyche Monty by brake testing him. Bit stupid in the tunnel with slippery surface,low visability,tinted visors,etc,etc,etc.
A beginners mistake from Shuey.
Just my O pine yon. Congrats to Trulli tho at last:tup:
The engine failure in the BAR was hardly Sato's fault although yes it would have been a good idea to bring him in to the pits earlier but it was the 1st/2nd lap so the team didnt have time to react really just one of those things. On the Alonso crash I think it was 100% Alonso's fault if you looked closely at the replays Ralf did back off Alonso simply got on the dirty part of the track and understeered into the barriers Ralf pulled tight to the right hand side and! backed off. On Shuey and Montoya defo Shueys fault to warm your brakes is one thing but to lock up and leave a 20m black line on the road is quite another
I just think he was trying to out psyche Monty by brake testing him. Bit stupid in the tunnel with slippery surface,low visability,tinted visors,etc,etc,etc.A beginners mistake from Shuey.
Just my O pine yon. Congrats to Trulli tho at last:tup:
As stated during the broadcast, a possibility for MS lockup could have been that there was more rubber "marbles" in the racing like from Alonso's earlier pass attempt. When MS hit the brakes hard to keep them warm, the left font might have been on some of this debris and subsequently locked inadvertantly. MS made a bad decision in my opinion to try that in the tunnel at that moment, but it his hardly all his fault. JPM was following closely and you can see his reaction was not to slow down, but to try and speed past, even though passing is absolutely unconditionally not allowed when the pace car is out. Even so, as the steward said, it's is not fully his fault either. Quite an interesting turn of events, quite amazing to see it live.
An interesting thought.... Imagine if the roles were reversed, with JPM locking up and MS trying to pass and colliding. I would bet the post race drama would have been a LOT more intense if it was JPM who felt that MS was the reason for the incident. I'm not really taking any one drivers side, but I think it is admirable how MS doesn't let his emotions effect him nearly as much as many other drivers, especially JPM. If JPM could control his emotions a bit better, I think he has every bit a chance to be as good as the best drivers ever. As shown, when on his own, he is arguable the best qualifying driver out there, but in race situations, I wish he didnt get so upset and take such risks.
In either case, AWESOME to see all the main teams either eliminated or severely handicapped and the smaller teams battling it out. One of the most amazing races in recent history if you ask me.
Just my $.02
An interesting thought.... Imagine if the roles were reversed, with JPM locking up and MS trying to pass and colliding. I would bet the post race drama would have been a LOT more intense if it was JPM who felt that MS was the reason for the incident. I'm not really taking any one drivers side, but I think it is admirable how MS doesn't let his emotions effect him nearly as much as many other drivers, especially JPM. If JPM could control his emotions a bit better, I think he has every bit a chance to be as good as the best drivers ever. As shown, when on his own, he is arguable the best qualifying driver out there, but in race situations, I wish he didnt get so upset and take such risks.
In either case, AWESOME to see all the main teams either eliminated or severely handicapped and the smaller teams battling it out. One of the most amazing races in recent history if you ask me.
Just my $.02
I agree liquid, it was almost as if MS was just trying to psych JPM out. By now he knows EXACTLY what to do to get JPM upset without technically doing anything wrong, but this time, whether on accident or not, it backfired on him. You are right, quite dumb I think, especially with what could have been for MS if he'd have tried to continue and win the race. Although, I'm not sure even if it didn't happen that MS would have been able to catch Trulli. It was just his weekend, awesome performance from the MonteCarlo native!!
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
All I would like to say about the Alsonso-RS case is that Alonso was lapping RS, and admitedly RS still had a race to compete in, it was very unlikely he was going to do well because apparently (the british commmentator is my source) he seemed to have a gear-box problem. I would also liek to point out taht nearer teh end of teh race, Button lapped a backmarker (can't remember who) in teh tunnel, but was able to pull in much earlier as teh backmarker had pulled over.
Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean its the sportsmanlike thing to do.
I think that sums up the 3 major incidents in this race. Driver's egos making them do crazy things that they think they have a "right" to do. Sato not slowing with a failing car, Ralf not letting Alonso pass, Alonso trying to pass on the outside in the marbles, Schumacher "innocently" (wink, wink) testing his brakes in the tunnel, Montoya being eager to capitalize and get around Michael. In one way or another, they all paid for their misjudgements.
That being said, I loved seeing every minute of IT!!! LOL
I think that sums up the 3 major incidents in this race. Driver's egos making them do crazy things that they think they have a "right" to do. Sato not slowing with a failing car, Ralf not letting Alonso pass, Alonso trying to pass on the outside in the marbles, Schumacher "innocently" (wink, wink) testing his brakes in the tunnel, Montoya being eager to capitalize and get around Michael. In one way or another, they all paid for their misjudgements.
That being said, I loved seeing every minute of IT!!! LOL
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
I still don't think alonso was trying to pass 'on the marbles'. The entrance to the tunnel isn't so dirty, its the second half that is. Alonso's plan was, I think, to go out wide early in the tunnel, and then Ralf would give him room to turn in BEFORE the marbles.
But heck, we can still put it down to in-experience if you want.
But heck, we can still put it down to in-experience if you want.
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- Sydney
- Archer28
It seems a bit rich to me Coultard complaining about Sato pushing on until his engine in his BAR gave up. It was just a couple of years ago that Coultard himself drove a frequently smoking car to victory at that very same race. (one of the best races in a long time too)
But i guess he was still hyped up from the accident and disappointed (another DNF isn't helping his chances of staying in F1.)
But i guess he was still hyped up from the accident and disappointed (another DNF isn't helping his chances of staying in F1.)
- 642
BAR was probably reasoning that if Sato held up the others, then Button would get away with the Renaults. That way, he wouldn't be troubled by the Ferraris or anyone else. Only thing is, it went wrong for them as Sato made the SC come out and everyone got even closer.
Just a mistake by an inexperienced team.
On the subject of Schuey, I wouldn't abject to his clever tactics if he'd done them in the open, but to try an do it out of view in the tunnel was stupid. As to Montoya being to close, he was no closer than anyone else was.
Just a mistake by an inexperienced team.
On the subject of Schuey, I wouldn't abject to his clever tactics if he'd done them in the open, but to try an do it out of view in the tunnel was stupid. As to Montoya being to close, he was no closer than anyone else was.
- 466
It was 85% MS's fault, you dont lock up that big while trying to warm your brakes. Secondly that was by far the worst place to be doing that, nice tight and dark tunnel. Smart move.
JPM should have let the lead cars ahead of him, but say if that he did, care to take a guess who would have been right behind MS at that point? Would that have been contraversal if the 2nd place driver made contact with the 1st place driver to win the race? JPM did what he had to do, MS clearly fubared up and JPM swereved while on the brakes to avoid. MS could have stayed in the upper line that was clear of clag and pulled ahead of JPM, instead he cuts down on JPM shunting himself into the wall. I guess every other ferrari fan "i'm one too, but I see the mistake that was made" would have rather had JPM slam on his brakes in the same manner to block up both lines in the tunnel resulting into a massive 12 car pileup, instead of getting on the brakes and avoiding MS? Keep in mind that the whole field was pretty bunched up at this point.
MS screwed up, JPM did what any other driver would have done in the same cituation, "try to avoid contact and hold your line afterwards"
Just curious, but I'd love to see what happened for the previous half lap or so before this incident. Everyone knows JPM will do any and everything to get on MS's nerves. I mean bottom, line both at fault here, but it just really seems odd that out of nowhere MS would suddenly test his brakes in such a bad spot, hard enough to maybe accidently lock up the left front. And then it seems odd that JPM would not attempt to slow but simply change lines like he was passing an obstacle. Even at speed in the middle of a race, a driver will slow as hard as necessary if the car in front is locked up, or might soon be out of control. But this was in a pace lap a lower speeds when you can't pass anyway. I would bet there was some smaller tiffs between the two in the corners leading up to this. Both driver's actions don't really make sense, which to me signals maybe they were both acting out of emotion. If so, its not the first time and I'm sure won't be the last time they get on each other's nerves. Most of the time, it has been JPM paying the price, this time it was MS. Fun to watch but I'm sure both respective team owners were not happy with their drivers. MS and Ferrari paid the price while in the end Renault and Trulli reaped the benefits!
