What is an Acceptable BoP to You, and Why?

[05XR8]

Exactly what I do. Feels good when I can finish ahead of the METAs.
I even pulled ahead of a Huracan. Was about .7s ahead and I still pulled away up Mountain Straight. Me in the Mustang!

I mainly complain when players choose the meta and can't drive it properly. That's my gripe.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The Gr4 bop is based on races with tire wear and fuel usage.
No wonder it's not balanced in B

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Honestly, to get a proper BOP you would have to get separate settings for each track in the game, separate for quali and races, and also adjusted for tyre/wear multiplier. At that point the numbers become so astronomical that PD might as well program identical cars only with different bodies (basically NASCAR GT3). Everyone has equal performance then, but do you really want that?

To me the fun of Manu is learning each car's nuances, strengths and weaknesses and adapting my driving to suit. The BOP doesn't matter, because I know my skill will be the limiting factor long before I hit the limit of the car. I've seen LIGHTNING win top split races in RS01, Viper, GT-R Gr.4 and of course he won Manu in WRX last year. None of those are particularly OP cars. If you have the speed, you'll find a way to equalize the cars. You won't win every race, but over a whole season it should be close.

The key point is, PD employs alien drivers to test the BOP. Their goal is so the broadcasted top split and WT races are close. Unfortunately, this means in lower splits, some cars are harder to extract the speed out of and that's why people think there are metas and turtles. Nations Cup races, there will always be metas for a particular track. That can't be avoided. Personally I think all Nations Cup races should be one make - it should be driver vs driver and car choice shouldn't matter.

IMO Gr.3 BOP is the best from all classes.
Gr.4 BOP is reasonable given they need to balance 4 drivetrains (ideally, they would just have FR/MR).
Gr.2 BOP would be very good if they split into old & new.
Gr.1 BOP is hopeless, but that's to be expected if you lump cars from wildly different eras together.
Gr.B BOP is also very good, they just need to remove the old Audi.
N class should be scrapped. Treat each car and each race individually like Gr.X.

P.S. Assetto Competizione sets BOP for each track individually. It's all done in the background and you don't even have power/weight figures in the game. They based the numbers on what the real life teams use and there are STILL 1-2 clear metas for each track. It's just unavoidable unless you're racing a spec series.

Oh, and the Cayman GT4 is so OP, that in real life and ACC it's BOP'd by raising the front ride height higher than the rear to compromise its handling. You won't see that in GTS

 

[MaxAttack]

A couple of things to pick up in this thread;

This is the only scirocco imo.

View attachment 1010669

Sadly, Volkswagen-Audi Group, a multinational corporation responsible for badge engineering entire brands disagrees with you. There are things to get hung up on and then there are things to scream into the whirling PR hurricane of massive indifferent corporation.

Honestly, I really don't understand it. Either use the best car like everyone else or put up with having a worse car. What's there to complain about?

The issue is it's simply not so cut and dry. Beyond cars being better or worse we all have our own connections and opinions with different brands and cars. If you've been a diehard Ferrari fan with the F40 on your wall as a kid and Michael is your absolute hero, won't you feel a bit hard done by if Ferrari are incapable of winning a race?

imo PD has as much of a responsibility to fairly represent manufacturers as it does provide the players an even bop: in this regard I feel they have much more to answer to to a Mitsubishi, Hyundai or Alfa Romeo than they do any individual player.

Why would you deliberately choose a slower car then complain about it when the faster choices are literally right there? As racers, it's up to us to utilise the most out of a fast car, whether we like it or not.

Because "X car is the fastest" is a myth and we all know it. There are cars at the sharp end of the BoP, and cars at the blunt end, but ultimately the biggest differential is the lump of human operating the thing. We all have different inclinations and preferences. I believe people are too easily led by top split results and leaderboard times, and the differentials between cars at the sharp end of the BoP are much smaller than most people believe.

As for the meat of the thread itself, as someone mentioned above, "how many seconds difference over a lap is good bop" isn't really a very good question, as whilst a 1s differential at say, La Sarthe, a 3 minute lap, would be a remarkably tight field, it would be a fairly spread field on a lap such as, say RBR short. BoP must be determined by a much wider range of factors - one lap pace, race pace, fuel use, tyre wear etc, etc.

Beyond the impossible abomination that is gr4, PD hasn't honestly done too badly at this, but as I alluded to above, people being easily led and flooding manufacturers that post good FP times or get endorsement from top players actually doesn't help them at all. If people thought for themselves and picked based on their individual strengths and desires, I reckon we would end up with a better spread of cars driven and a better BoP at the end. When the whole playerbase floods into whichever 3 or 4 Manus are flavour of the month, it's not encouraging for PD's "represent the OEMs" championship and of course such cars are bound for the nerfing block.

An acceptable BoP for me is one that allows reasonable racing without sacrificing the individual qualities of the cars, and that doesn't force anyone to drive a car they don't want to, or not to drive a car they do.

 

[Groundfish]

The Gr4 bop is based on races with tire wear and fuel usage.
No wonder it's not balanced in B

If race B is drive VW or lose then just make it a one make! You can’t call it GROUP 4 when only ff can win!

Gr.4 BOP is reasonable given they need to balance 4 drivetrains (ideally, they would just have FR/MR).

Yeah it’s so balanced that choosing fr and mr means losing.
There’s no need to have cars that can literally walk right away from others in their slipstream, then at the end of the straight outbrake them too!
The Megane ff was previously META on the Mountain for over a year!
Now it’s a VW GTI. Nothing changed, don’t get me started on the RCZ either!
Gr4 is use ff or get beat and has been for over a year!

It’s not balanced when the VW and RCZ are sooo much faster than the others.
It’s comical.
It’s ruined gr4. At least on the med tire. Imo the med tire is just way too much grip too for these cars.

I mean what gives? The ff in gr4 have been this way a long time.

Gr3, it’s a different story. Lots of cars can be used in sprints or longer races.
It’s certainly not only balanced in c races...

The mountain is a great track and it certainly would be nice if there was a choice of cars capable of competing there in gr4 besides ff.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

If race B is drive VW or lose then just make it a one make! You can’t call it GROUP 4 when only ff can win!



Yeah it’s so balanced that choosing fr and mr means losing.
There’s no need to have cars that can literally walk right away from others in their slipstream, then at the end of the straight outbrake them too!
The Megane ff was previously META on the Mountain for over a year!
Now it’s a VW GTI. Nothing changed, don’t get me started on the RCZ either!
Gr4 is use ff or get beat and has been for over a year!

It’s not balanced when the VW and RCZ are sooo much faster than the others.
It’s comical.
It’s ruined gr4. At least on the med tire. Imo the med tire is just way too much grip too for these cars.

I mean what gives? The ff in gr4 have been this way a long time.

Gr3, it’s a different story. Lots of cars can be used in sprints or longer races.
It’s certainly not only balanced in c races...

The mountain is a great track and it certainly would be nice if there was a choice of cars capable of competing there in gr4 besides ff.

It's no wonder the FF are winning race B. As we stated the BOP is balanced with a mix between agility/power/tire wear/fuel usage. When you remove half of the balancing factors it's bound to be unbalanced.
The easy solution is to add tire and fuel to race B....
The other easy solution is to make it a race between similar cars, like all FR, or FR/MR, or maybe AWD Vs AWD.
As long as it's a whole group it's either Gr3 or unbalanced.

 

[DanSHW]

As the BoP is for the purposes of sport mode, it should be based on sport mode results, just as BoP is used in real world racing.

Every time there's a full group race (so not the Gr.4 FF provided car races), take the car that's won the most races in the week and give it a nerf, and give a boost to the car that's won the least. Some tracks will be outliers, and fuel and tyre wear will mean it isn't perfect, but on the whole it should balance the field out much better than the current BoPs.

 

[Groundfish]

I think in GTS they might be able to do bop per track just by nerfing the meta a little with weight or power reduction.

As the BoP is for the purposes of sport mode, it should be based on sport mode results, just as BoP is used in real world racing.

It’s not brain surgery

 

[daan]

Gr 4 BOP is broken.
I can’t believe it.
In my last race 14 of 16 were VW ff there was one RCZ and me, in the Mustang.
This was the highest NA room with 09.4 on pole and me starting 8th at 10.4.

View attachment 1010761

You're a second slower than a higher rated driver. Pretty much all of the drivers ahead of you are rated higher and this would indicate they would be ahead of you even if they were in the Mustang. You're 2 tenths slower than a fellow A driver so that looks like the advantage that an FF has, not the whole second that you seem to be indicating.

What would your time be if you had qualified in the Sirocco?

 

[Groundfish]

What would your time be if you had qualified in the Sirocco?

I did qualify in the Scirroco. I’m strong in the gr4 Mustang though, I spent about twenty or so minutes warming up and I was running low 11s before entering, because I didn’t want to be a rolling roadblock.
That’s an alt account for me. My other is A plus.
I could maybe with a few hours trying my hardest eek out a 10 something in the Mustang, and every other fr I tried wasn’t close.
In the vette I couldn’t make it into the 11 range, I was mid 12, same with Veyron.
Mid 12 in Mcclaren High 12 in Ferrari, ummm, I’m not the best with Viper so didn’t try.
I’ve been racing hard every daily every FIA on the Mountain including the Dallara and the Nissan GTR road at race in which I picked up a couple places in top split.
I could maaaaybe break 10 in the VW if I tried hard.
The other cars cannot compete against those players in my hands. The Stang can, but not if people are going to stuff me believing sim holding them up.
And, my goal was hold station and capitalize on mistakes, I already know the Stang cannot overtake a VW even drafting, if the VW chooses to defend.
Anyone whose been racing regularly on the mountain knows gr4 prior to last 2 BOP adjustments has been a Renault Megane one make.
I tried my hardest over the course of many races and months before finally giving in and just using it.
I could literally be gaining on it coming out of Forrests elbow or Hells corner on exit, IN slipstream and it would pull away, and not only that it’s brakes are way better than almost all gr4, it renders other cars useless, or did, now it’s VW.
That darn thing at Seaside recently was the same.
I’m fast at Seaside too. I couldn’t figure out why I was slow compared to guys in the VW, tried it, 1.5 seconds faster after a few laps.
What’s worse is initially this power advantage was offset by tire wear in long races, then the community complained about tires and PD changed that too!
I am just a frustrated frustrated player right now and I need to get away for a while.

Edit the guy on pole is #2 q time in NA region. I think I’m a lowly 65 or something.
It’s the top room in game at that time.
Lap one I get my race ruined? No fun.

 

[05XR8]

Honestly, to get a proper BOP you would have to get separate settings for each track in the game, separate for quali and races, and also adjusted for tyre/wear multiplier. At that point the numbers become so astronomical that PD might as well program identical cars only with different bodies (basically NASCAR GT3). Everyone has equal performance then, but do you really want that?

To me the fun of Manu is learning each car's nuances, strengths and weaknesses and adapting my driving to suit. The BOP doesn't matter, because I know my skill will be the limiting factor long before I hit the limit of the car. I've seen LIGHTNING win top split races in RS01, Viper, GT-R Gr.4 and of course he won Manu in WRX last year. None of those are particularly OP cars. If you have the speed, you'll find a way to equalize the cars. You won't win every race, but over a whole season it should be close.

The key point is, PD employs alien drivers to test the BOP. Their goal is so the broadcasted top split and WT races are close. Unfortunately, this means in lower splits, some cars are harder to extract the speed out of and that's why people think there are metas and turtles. Nations Cup races, there will always be metas for a particular track. That can't be avoided. Personally I think all Nations Cup races should be one make - it should be driver vs driver and car choice shouldn't matter.

IMO Gr.3 BOP is the best from all classes.
Gr.4 BOP is reasonable given they need to balance 4 drivetrains (ideally, they would just have FR/MR).
Gr.2 BOP would be very good if they split into old & new.
Gr.1 BOP is hopeless, but that's to be expected if you lump cars from wildly different eras together.
Gr.B BOP is also very good, they just need to remove the old Audi.
N class should be scrapped. Treat each car and each race individually like Gr.X.

P.S. Assetto Competizione sets BOP for each track individually. It's all done in the background and you don't even have power/weight figures in the game. They based the numbers on what the real life teams use and there are STILL 1-2 clear metas for each track. It's just unavoidable unless you're racing a spec series.

Oh, and the Cayman GT4 is so OP, that in real life and ACC it's BOP'd by raising the front ride height higher than the rear to compromise its handling. You won't see that in GTS

I think that's the same for the Alpine or X-Bow. One of them ride like a 4x4.

 

[kungtotte_]

I believe PD are looking at the sum total of all races that are happening in the game and the results when determining the BoP. They know how many times a given car is raced and they know how well said car usually does, and the BoP is created in light of that to make the cars competitive.

It's important to remember that this game has thousands of players spread across the skill spectrum, and we can't just go by the splits we're currently in when making our own estimations about how good or popular a car is.

Just because we feel that a certain car is overpowered (or underpowered) based on our perception of our current split doesn't make that true: the car could be doing really poorly for how popular it is when looking at every race in the game, or it could be raking home points disproportionate to how many times it's raced.

I guarantee PD are looking at those factors more than laptimes.

 

[meekrab]

I think that's the same for the Alpine or X-Bow. One of them ride like a 4x4.

Yeah, the X-bow makes so much more downforce than the other cars that they're forced to run a minimum 100mm ride height, and at least at certain tracks they limit the front wheel camber to 2.5 degrees. And the McLaren 570S is BoP'd by mandating a maximum 70% throttle opening. GT4 is a weird but wonderful universe.