What is the big deal about using driving assists?

[kilesa4568]

You could argue that CSA is the trade off from steering a ton and a half high powered car with your thumb, and pedals with a few millimetres of travel in them. Not to mention the total lack of seat of the pants feeling as to what the car is really doing or that you're actually using a racing sofa and 2D screen to see where you're going.

You can only take the realism card so far.

I think the people who use the assists for a top lap time could probably match it with a purple zone session but for someone to get beaten who doesn't use an assist, well, it will always be a good excuse to complain.

 

[LordDrift]

Nothing wrong with using aids if you need them, there just needs to be some segregation or meaniful penalty.

 

[ststav01]

So on today's GR3 race on Interlagos, I got pole position - 1.31.6XX is my qualifying which is quite good - all is OK, I pit at the end of lap 5, as most of the guys, change my tyres/refuel and there is this **** that just cruises with his BMW with entirely red tyres but with TCS ON (of course no pit stop at all) and he wins the race with 20 secs, oh, and one more thing - he was using AT - would be really happy to see his skills without TCS and the tyre wear. So, please someone come and tell me how TCS "punishes" you and how slow you are with it . And this all happens in A/S - so I'm starting to think that the best GENIUS strategy for Interlagos (due to its long pit lane ~ 23-4 secs delay for tyre change and refuel) is to be as "good" as this **** and cruise around with TCS ON and don't care whether or not your tyres are worn because clearly it doesn't affect your performance at all.

 

[John Crellin]

So on today's GR3 race on Interlagos, I got pole position - 1.31.6XX is my qualifying which is quite good - all is OK, I pit at the end of lap 5, as most of the guys, change my tyres/refuel and there is this **** that just cruises with his BMW with entirely red tyres but with TCS ON (of course no pit stop at all) and he wins the race with 20 secs, oh, and one more thing - he was using AT - would be really happy to see his skills without TCS and the tyre wear. So, please someone come and tell me how TCS "punishes" you and how slow you are with it . And this all happens in A/S - so I'm starting to think that the best GENIUS strategy for Interlagos (due to its long pit lane ~ 23-4 secs delay for tyre change and refuel) is to be as "good" as this **** and cruise around with TCS ON and don't care whether or not your tyres are worn because clearly it doesn't affect your performance at all.

have you ever heard the story of the tortoise and the hare?.... long story short, They out paced you it sounds like. Its actually a pretty ingenious decision to hold off on the pit and gradually increase TCS as you tires wear. BMW had a better strategy and won.

 

[ststav01]

have you ever heard the story of the tortoise and the hare?.... long story short, They out paced you it sounds like. Its actually a pretty ingenious decision to hold off on the pit and gradually increase TCS as you tires wear. BMW had a better strategy and won.

And as you exactly said - the tortoise and the hare - so from my story there is clearly no tortoise thanks to TCS which completely removes the effect of worn tyres Nothing against aids - let people use what they're comfortable with - but the difference is huge ATM.

 

[John Crellin]

And as you exactly said - the tortoise and the hare - so from my story there is clearly no tortoise thanks to TCS which completely removes the effect of worn tyres Nothing against aids - let people use what they're comfortable with - but the difference is huge ATM.

haha clearly the bmw is the tortoise with slower laps. you wore your tires out and took the pit stop like the hare

 

[ststav01]

haha clearly the bmw is the tortoise with slower laps. you wore your tires out and took the pit stop like the hare

okay, I would agree to more like a reactive tortoise.

 

[JacksHerer]

What car were you in?
The BMW is much better mpg than my 991.
I run that race without pit stop and only ABS, I started 9th with 1:32.2 and finished 3rd. I got overtaken by the M6 while I was short shifting, I was gutted to finish with .3 laps of fuel left.

I didn't save the replay, but normally I am 1 of 3 or 4 that doesn't use AIDS in a grid of 20.

 

[paul82]

i use abs and the breaking cones, it gives me a better idea when the car ahead is going to break so i dont end up taking them out late breaking (no dive bombing for me)

 

[cleanLX]

I see both sides... some people need the help... ok...
However...
Cars are BoP'd to make the playing field fair...
Chassis tuning is a no-no to make the playing field fair...
Making the race down to the driver if you will...
Yet aids... wait, what?

Yes GT race cars have tc and abs in real life... they do not have asm or csa.

 

[LordDrift]

i use abs and the breaking cones, it gives me a better idea when the car ahead is going to break so i dont end up taking them out late breaking (no dive bombing for me)

You use braking cones to judge when the car ahead will brake...how about brake lights or race craft?

 

[Biggbaddwolf]

I think it all boils down to "non-assist" users feel humiliated when beaten by someone who uses assists..LOL That just isn't supposed to happen..hahahaha. And as for assists making you slower, I did some testing, and I was actually faster with assists on than with them off, so not sure where the idea that they slow you down comes from. I also think it is a big "macho man trip" to drive without assists...bahahahahahaha. But yeah whatever soothes your machoness, just leave MY assists alone!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LordDrift]

I think it all boils down to "non-assist" users feel humiliated when beaten by someone who uses assists..LOL That just isn't supposed to happen..hahahaha. And as for assists making you slower, I did some testing, and I was actually faster with assists on than with them off, so not sure where the idea that they slow you down comes from. I also think it is a big "macho man trip" to drive without assists...bahahahahahaha. But yeah whatever soothes your machoness, just leave MY assists alone!!!!!!!!!!

To the contrary, and based on GTS, I would feel more embarrassed if I used csa and asm and got beaten.

 

[FerrellJ]

LOL

hahahaha

bahahahahahaha

!!!!!!!!!

You make some thought provoking and compelling points. I can't imagine anyone will be able to counter your arguments.

 

[Sean Renon]

To the contrary, and based on GTS, I would feel more embarrassed if I used csa and asm and got beaten.

Lately I've turned CSA off (used to use it on weak), but I cannot get rid of TCS on 2 for the GR.3 cars, although TCS is off on all of my GR.4 cars.
I applaud you if you can drive quickly without a wheel and without TCS on GR.3, but the damn Mustang I was trying to drive last night without TCS on Interlagos was skating around the track before the tires were balding.
I pitted and didn't change tires, and holy christ the car couldn't do anything anymore, braking was worse - turning was so bad, and I couldn't throttle down on anything.
The last 2 laps of my race when my tires were just over half worn (no TCS) my lap times went from 1.31.xx to 1.34.xx

 

[Lambob]

I'll use or not use, whatever it takes to give me a fastest lap primarily using my own inputs for everything.

most of the time I'll win an average amt of races online or off, without any aids enabled whatsoever, so as long as I've mastered both track and car that I'm driving.

if by some oddball chance an ABS 1 or TC 1 decides to improve on things, due to poorer programming of car, then I'll use it that time.

otherwise, give me raw inputs at the wheel with time and practice, and I'll slow down at turn 1 to pass the wreckage on my way to victory with other skilled gentlemen or gentilehoss drivers behind, or directly in front of me.

this is my GT experience in a nutshell.

 

[LordDrift]

I'll use or not use, whatever it takes to give me a fastest lap primarily using my own inputs for everything.

most of the time I'll win an average amt of races online or off, without any aids enabled whatsoever, so as long as I've mastered both track and car that I'm driving.

if by some oddball chance an ABS 1 or TC 1 decides to improve on things, due to poorer programming of car, then I'll use it that time.

otherwise, give me raw inputs at the wheel with time and practice, and I'll slow down at turn 1 to pass the wreckage on my way to victory with other skilled gentlemen or gentilehoss drivers behind, or directly in front of me.

this is my GT experience in a nutshell.

abs and tcs is one thing - personally I run abs only and don't have a problem with folks using tcs, csa and asm is a whole other atrocity . I can't see how PD allows those in a sport race.

 

[LordDrift]

You make some thought provoking and compelling points. I can't imagine anyone will be able to counter your arguments.

*chuckle*

 

[paul82]

You use braking cones to judge when the car ahead will brake...how about brake lights or race craft?

i try to break before the car ahead into a corner and alot of times im so close to the car ahead by the time the break lights come on its to late.
so yes the cones do help me. im not the best at gts but im getting better and like to put clean racing first above winning

 

[FerrellJ]

i try to break before the car ahead into a corner and alot of times im so close to the car ahead by the time the break lights come on its to late.

Try getting beside them before the braking point. If they brake early, you can go for a pass. If not, you should have time to tuck back in behind them. It doesn't necessarily work for every type of corner but should cover most.

 

[LordDrift]

i try to break before the car ahead into a corner and alot of times im so close to the car ahead by the time the break lights come on its to late.
so yes the cones do help me. im not the best at gts but im getting better and like to put clean racing first above winning

If the guy brakes early and you are fixating on brake cones it could be worse. You got to use judgement based on that specific driver and corner instead of fixating on brake cones. IMO I don't care if people use them , just your reason for is odd to me. At least these penalize you if u are reliant on them then they suddenly disappear or god forbid you run over one that's been knocked over.

 

[TeWheke]

If they're not going to let us tune the suspension I have no problems with people using CSA and ASM, especially in Gr.3 where the default set-ups can make keeping the car on the road and pointing in the right direction a battle in itself. Opening up tuning and turning down the effectiveness of CSA and ASM would be a much better solution IMO as it more skill based since the individual is responsible for improving the car performance rather than relying on assists to make the car more driveable. Some Gr.3 cars just aren't enjoyable with default set-ups and I found that switching on CSA or even ASM greatly improved the performance, so if I'm getting frustrated with a car sometimes I'll turn one or both on to compensate for the lack of tuning.

 

[LordDrift]

If they're not going to let us tune the suspension I have no problems with people using CSA and ASM, especially in Gr.3 where the default set-ups can make keeping the car on the road and pointing in the right direction a battle in itself. Opening up tuning and turning down the effectiveness of CSA and ASM would be a much better solution IMO as it more skill based since the individual is responsible for improving the car performance rather than relying on assists to make the car more driveable. Some Gr.3 cars just aren't enjoyable with default set-ups and I found that switching on CSA or even ASM greatly improved the performance, so if I'm getting frustrated with a car sometimes I'll turn one or both on to compensate for the lack of tuning.

But tuning has nothing to do with driving skill and csa is essentially steering the car for you in a competitive racing game claimed to be simulation -

 

[IronVortex75]

I did a detailed back to back evaluation of all the driver aids, singly and in combination, at Interlagos in the gr3 Porsche.

These results only apply to me (yours may well be different) but my fastest and most consistent times came from only having ABS on default with everything else off.

TC definitely slowed me down, as strangely did CSA. ASM didnt have any noticable effect.

I use T300 GT wheel and pedals.

It may be track dependent too - going to try Suzuka tomorrow.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

I gotta gave that ABS and I'm not ashamed.

 

[LordDrift]

I did a detailed back to back evaluation of all the driver aids, singly and in combination, at Interlagos in the gr3 Porsche.

These results only apply to me (yours may well be different) but my fastest and most consistent times came from only having ABS on default with everything else off.

TC definitely slowed me down, as strangely did CSA. ASM didnt have any noticable effect.

I use T300 GT wheel and pedals.

It may be track dependent too - going to try Suzuka tomorrow.

The issue is not hot lapping, to me the advantage comes in pack racing when you are having to be reactive.

 

[LordDrift]

I gotta gave that ABS and I'm not ashamed.

I use ABS. The car I track in real life has abs. Its not made up like csa. It also has tcs and dsc. Which I turn off , because the car rightly sucks on the track with them on.

 

[notnilc20]

Not sure why it baffles you. It generally takes more skill to drive without assists. It should be obvious why some people would be bothered by the fact that others not as skilled as them can maintain appearances otherwise.

It doesn't personally bother me so long as it provides good clean racing but I would certainly appreciate some acknowledgement of my abilities. It would be cool if the game showed what assists each driver was using on the race results screen for example.

Well said. It doesnt bother me when people use assists but I just can't respect someones time or podium finish if they have full assists on.
Let me explain, Part, if not most, of the racing experience (for me) is getting that car around the track with just my abilities and control with my right foot and two arms...that perfect harmony between man and machine if you will (yes even if it's just a game haha). So I just see assists as crutches or a handicap. There's no need for throttle control, no need for smooth driving because your car will not spin out or become unstable. Now, I'm not against them because everyone is at a different skill level (i'm not fast by any means, but i'd rather be mediocre w/o assists than puffing my chest using full assists) and need them to even just get around the track let alone race. But like FerrelJ said at least let us see who's using what or give some kind of recognition for those who would rather race without a handicap.

 

[Rinsky]

So this brings up my question for all those people who complain about others using driving assist.
How many of you drive with the bumper cam?
In my opinion it's probably the biggest made up assist in the game. It is an unrealistic view to give others a huge advantage of seeing the whole track and the cars around them compared to the realistic cockpit view that can obstructs your view of the track and cars around you.

It is absolutely no different than someone else who is using CSA or ASM because both are made up assist just like bumper cam.

So I feel the only people who really have an argument here are those who drive in cockpit view with no assist and try to mimic being in a real-life race car.
I bet you that's a very small number of people.

 

[PorscheHD]

You cant use them because you then are not a sim racing pro!

O wait its a game......

Just do what you like and what feels best for you if youre having fun that way then its fine.

For me its diffrent per car.