What the hell were they thinking?

[Sting]

Illinois baby obtains gun permit

Bubba Ludwig may only be 10 months old, but he has already successfully obtained a gun licence in the US state of Illinois.

Bubba's father, Howard Ludwig, applied on his behalf after his grandfather gave him a shotgun as an heirloom.

Mr Ludwig said he had not expected to succeed, but he filled in the online form, paid $5 and the licence was his.

US gun laws are regularly the subject of fierce debate, renewed recently after April's Virginia Tech killings.

Gunman Cho Seung-hui was able to exploit a loophole in Virginia state law and obtain weapons despite having a history of mental illness. The loophole was later closed.

Technical problems

The licence includes a picture of a toothless Bubba and a squiggle that represents his best attempt at a signature.

In an article in the Chicago Sun-Times, Mr Ludwig, 30, said that he expected the application to be turned down.

Two rejections did in fact come, he said, but both related to technical problems - on one application he forgot to tick a box stating his son was a US citizen - rather than Bubba's youth.

His third attempt was rewarded with a state firearm owner's identification card (FOID), complete with details of Bubba's height, weight and date of birth.

'No age restrictions'

Illinois gun laws are said to be among the strictest in the US.

But Illinois State Police, who oversee the application process, said that they had followed the law in this case.

"Does a 10-month-old need a FOID card? No, but there are no restrictions under the act regarding age of applicants," the Associated Press news agency quoted Lt Scott Compton as saying.

Mr Ludwig said Bubba's gun would likely remain at his grandfather's house until he was 14.

"I'm not about to approve any unsupervised hunting or trap shooting for Bubba," he wrote in the Chicago daily.

"Still, I'm glad he was able to get his FOID card. It makes an adorable addition to his baby book."

Story from BBC NEWS:

Gee, what a brilliant idea. The fact he's going to receive the shotgun when he's 14 apparently does not fill me with confidence. 14 years olds are stupid enough, but give them possession of a freakin shotgun and I seriously question some people's intelligence.

It makes an adorable addition to his baby book.

This guy is a few fries short of a happy meal. Jeez

 

[FoolKiller]

Gee, what a brilliant idea. The fact he's going to receive the shotgun when he's 14 apparently does not fill me with confidence. 14 years olds are stupid enough, but give them possession of a freakin shotgun and I seriously question some people's intelligence.

While an age restriction on owning a gun should be in the law, I see nothing wrong with a 14 year old being able to go hunting. You have to have a license to hunt and, in my state at least, you have to take a safety course every year if you are under 16.

I had my hunting license at 14 that I earned from an approved course at Conservation Camp. I never actually went hunting, but I passed the safety course.

This guy is a few fries short of a happy meal. Jeez

Yeah, I hate baby books too.

 

[V1P3R]

Ya know... after seeing that Top Gear episode and then this thread... The west coast isn't looking so bad.

BTW, I'm sorry you Ukers had to see that episode... Another way America try's to make itself look good.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ya know... after seeing that Top Gear episode and then this thread... The west coast isn't looking so bad.

BTW, I'm sorry you Ukers had to see that episode... Another way America try's to make itself look good.

Wait, what happened on Top Gear that had to do with a 10-month-old getting a gun permit and making you want to move to the west coast?

 

[ExigeEvan]

Wait, what happened on Top Gear that had to do with a 10-month-old getting a gun permit and making you want to move to the west coast?

The supposedly homophobic lynch mob, probably.

 

[Scaff]

Gee, what a brilliant idea. The fact he's going to receive the shotgun when he's 14 apparently does not fill me with confidence. 14 years olds are stupid enough, but give them possession of a freakin shotgun and I seriously question some people's intelligence.

I've shot since the age of about 11, owned shotguns (on my fathers licence) from a similar age and owned guns on my own licences from 17 (as was the legal minimum age) and continued to do so until UK gun laws were changed in the mid '90s.

By that definition you are seriously questioning the intelligence of my grandfather, father and myself.

However I would like to just turn that around and say that age is a totally irrelevant, and say that its more a case of attitude. You see I was taken shooting (both clay, target and game) from a very young age and respect for shotguns and firearms was something that I learnt from that age. As such I (and most others in a similar situation) respected them.

Its not much different from saying that just because some sad little 14 year old chav nicks a car and crashes it that letting any 14 year old behind the wheel is stupid. Yet a huge number of junior racing series around the globe do that every week, and without them we would not have the professional racing drivers of tomorrow. Once again its a question of attitude, education and respect.

In a well educated and controlled environment a 14 year old (or even younger) person is no more a danger with a gun that one on a race track with a car.

Unfortunately you seem to simple be reciting the blind prejudice and misinformation that populates the mainstream British press in regard to any and all forms of legal gun ownership.

May I ask a rather relevant question, which is exactly what personal knowledge do you base your comments on? Have you ever been clay pigeon shooting, or taken part in any kind of well organised shooting event in which young people are involved?


Regards

Scaff

 

[Sting]

OK Scaff, you got me. No personal knowledge apart from what I see/hear about in the press.

But when you read that quote of the father when he says about the adorable addition to a baby book, don't you think thats a bit weird??

If like yourself, people are properly educated and responsible with firearms then fine no problem.

However, if I've caused you any offence Scaff then I apologise, but that quote from the news story really disturbs me.

Delete the topic if you wish.

 

[Scaff]

OK Scaff, you got me. No personal knowledge apart from what I see/hear about in the press.

But when you read that quote of the father when he says about the adorable addition to a baby book, don't you think thats a bit weird??

If like yourself, people are properly educated and responsible with firearms then fine no problem.

However, if I've caused you any offence Scaff then I apologise, but that quote from the news story really disturbs me.

Delete the topic if you wish.

Sting

No offence taken at all, just voicing my own opinion 👍

On the baby book side of things, I wouldn't personally read much into that without actually knowing the exact context in which it was said, which could have been light-hearted rather than serious. The guy did after all say that he never actually expected them to issue the licence.

The only issue I have is with the often automatic assumption in the UK that anyone who has ever used or shown an interest in shooting is a nutter. Even sadder is the fact that we produce some world class clay and target shooter,and the guys and girls who compete in the pistol events can't legally train in the UK, they have to travel abroad just to train.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Sting]

I'm not one with that automatic assumption cause I know people who go hunting... heck I'd like to try it myself but I don't know the first thing about it.

That quote just seriously confused me.

 

[Gil]

I have never owned my own firearm, but have been taught to shoot from the age of about 6, starting with Placo Dart guns, and moving to real firearms by the age of 9.
My father was a champion shooter in the US Army, and his weapon of choice at that time was the Browning Automatic rifle.
Before I was ten, I could make the claim that if I could see a target clearly, and it was as big as an apple, I could shoot it with a .22 anywhere out to about 40 yds.
I have never killed anything with a gun, though I have held people at gunpoint in the course of one of my jobs.
I still shoot, though not often, with airsoft guns to keep my skills up.

As far as this dad being excited about his infant son getting a gun lisence, he "jumped thru the hoops", hooray for him.
He did say the boy would not be unsupervised, but taught to use the gun in a safe manner. IMHO more peopleshould teach their kids gun safety, and proper gun handling.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Whilst it may seem very stupid, and quite frankly, friggin pointless...at least he's not getting the gun until a moderately "responsible" age. Obviously, this level of responsibility will depend on parenting skills and up bringing...something I'd question when cruelling naming your kid "Bubba"...(that part was sarcasm btw, don't jump me...)

What I do question is giving anyone the use of a weapon at 14, I fail to see the point, that said...I fail to see the point of anyone having a gun when they simply do not need it...unless he's going to end up in a job where experience of using a weapon is necessary then...why? Hunting? I hope not...I hate hunting and hunters and would gladly drop kick them off a cliff (if there's any hunters posting/reading...good...you've seen my distaste towards your hobby). If the kid wants to run around shooting, why not get him into airsoft, that'll teach him a damn sight more useful things.

Also, at 14, he's vulnerable to outside influences in ways to misuse that gun, as is everyone. So what's to stop him being another ill-fated gun user ending up dead or in jail? Another reason no one actually needs a gun...geez...and the US wonders why there's so many gun killings throughout the country? Wake up a little...

 

[Duke]

What I do question is giving anyone the use of a weapon at 14, I fail to see the point...

Also, at 14, he's vulnerable to outside influences in ways to misuse that gun, as is everyone.

I shot more rounds of .22 long rifle and more 20ga shotgun shells between the ages of 10 and 14 than I have since I turned 18. I was taught gun safety, weapons handling, proper procedure, and how to care for your gun. I never shot competitively but I was pretty consistent in both fixed targets and skeet. My friends and I would have our own little matches, shooting up bags of plastic army men or old car models (and paper targets as well, once we started getting better).

I never hunted, but that didn't decrease my enjoyment one bit and I've got nothing against hunters who eat what they shoot.

Access to guns at an early age didn't lead me to grow into a sociopath.

 

[Scaff]

Hunting? I hope not...I hate hunting and hunters and would gladly drop kick them off a cliff (if there's any hunters posting/reading...good...you've seen my distaste towards your hobby). If the kid wants to run around shooting, why not get him into airsoft, that'll teach him a damn sight more useful things.

Then get ready to hate me. While I have not actively hunted for around a decade, while younger I most certainly did. Growing up in the country it was done for two reasons (which often overlapped), vermin control and food. I've shot, gutted, dressed and eaten almost all type of game commonly shot in the UK and have not a single qualm about it. As for vermin control, have you even witnessed exactly the level of damage that certain creatures can do to crops and livestock?

I certainly hope that given the comments about you are a very strict vegetarian, if not your words smack of hypocrisy of the highest level.

Also, at 14, he's vulnerable to outside influences in ways to misuse that gun, as is everyone. So what's to stop him being another ill-fated gun user ending up dead or in jail? Another reason no one actually needs a gun...geez...and the US wonders why there's so many gun killings throughout the country? Wake up a little...

Yet more ill-informed rubbish. Age has nothing at all to do with it, attitude and education do. From my first experiences with a gun I was strictly taught to never point a gun at a person (loaded or unloaded) unless I was intending to use it. To this day I never have.

Just another small point, many countries have gun ownership levels (and young shooters) as high or higher than the US, but do not suffer the same issues. Hell plenty of people under the legal ownership age in the UK have access to shotguns (I often used to clean mine at that age) and yet I never went on a rampage. Its far more common for illegally held gun to fall into the hands of the inexperienced and result in death or injury than it is legally held guns. Legal gun owners find this kind of situation just as abhorrent as anyone else, in the same way legal drivers do with the 14 year old joy rider who kills or injures someone.


Scaff

 

[Duke]

But when you read that quote of the father when he says about the adorable addition to a baby book, don't you think thats a bit weird?

That quote just seriously confused me.

What about that legendary British dry humour? Do you really think Americans are big enough idiots that he meant that literally?

 

[Sting]

Regardless of american or not (I'm not about to bash americans), there are people that are a bit.... different shall we say.

 

[JoshBMW]

I fail to see the point of anyone having a gun when they simply do not need it...

Maybe because it's a fun hobby? And besides, who are you to decide whether somebody needs a gun or not?

What about private aircraft? Most people don't 'need' them, but fly them anyway. Is that bad? After all, you could probably do much more damage with one of them than with a gun.

 

[BobK]

Can you imagine a world where the only things you are permitted to have are things you need? No music, no movies, no PlayStations...

 

[McLaren]

While I'm worried about them allowing this, something else came to mind.


























Who the hell names their son "Bubba"?

 

[Stevisiov]

Who the hell names their son "Bubba"?

That should be illegal for sure.

 

[ledhed]

Why does everyone assume that the BBC article is factual and unedited and not deliberately biased to a pre concieved notion >?


Your having an argument / discussion on a BBC article that may NOT have presented the facts as they are but as they wish to have them read.


I read between the lines...and I see a dad who lives in a STATE with VERY restrictive gun laws FOLLOWING the law to the letter . The Child was given a Shotgun ..and although he is a baby and cant use it ..it has to be licensed ( Further research would be needed to determine if a shotgun needs to be licensed ANYPLACE in the US ..I know not in PA.).
so he ..thinking it to be a stupid law to begin with and uncertain of his LIABILITY in such a draconian system .. ..decides to mess with the system and have the baby apply for a licence..just to cover his own butt and have a laugh ,,,,,the dolts approve it ..not DADS fault . DAD followed the law to the letter...and DAD thinking it ..as I do ..a hoot and a major giggle ...puts the babys cert for his Shotgun in his book so he can point out later how stupid the government is .


The BBS on the other hand just wants to show Americans as bloodthirsty gun nuts that would arm babies and our lawmakers are dolts and would allow it ...hence the way they "framed " the so called article ....as in; "look what the rednecks are up to now "..if only they were civilized like us proper chaps ....

lol




Ding ...have to confirm this but what the BBC is calling a "License" ...lol/....is simply a registration form you fill out when a firearm changes owners...seems that state requires its firearms to be registered to its owners.

So ...why didn't the BBC call it what it is ? WHY did they make it seem the baby had a " license " for a shotgun ?

You decide.

 

[Bram Turismo]

It's quite unclear to me:

So Bubba's father, Mr. Ludwig recieved a shotgun from his father? Or did Bubba recieved that shotgun from his grandfather? I'm confused here as how a 10 months old baby can obtain a gun license, or is it? Is it a real license or only some kind of reservation license or something?

That's one confusing article

 

[Gonz013]

Banning anyone named Bubba from ever owning a gun would be a step forward.

 

[ledhed]

Some states in the US require a firearm to be registered to its owner. Its not a license or a restriction but a way to trace the gun to its owner if lost -stolen -used in a crime . Its considered a helpful way to solve gun related crime by some......provided the criminals are dumb enough to use a registered firearm .. in any case.
Every state is different in the class or type of firearm that they require to be registered. For example in My state only Handguns require a registration and only machine guns require a License/permit to be owned . In NEW Jersey you need a PERMIT for every handgun you own ...but Trenton and Camden are more dangerouse than Bahgdad so go figure.
Most gun laws are useless , becuase the uncooperating criminals keep ignoring them . But they give the Government more jobs I guess to hand out ..there is that.... and the Police get more laws not to enforce to go along with all the ones they don't enforce now ..because there is no room to put all the people they would catch in Prison .

Every City or State that has DECIDED to enforce EXISTING laws on the books for years has seen a HUGE drop in gun crime because the criminals are jail ...instead of out on bail or probation making money and shooting people .
But since we clog up our jails with drug users / sellers we have no place to keep the people who " only " carry a gun illegally and are SUPPOSED to get a mandatory sentence...see ONLY under FEDERAL law do most MANDATORY laws come into play ..so they will use them selectively to screw someone over or to convince them to testify or even as designed ..but only so many Federal prosecuters and Judges and jails .

Sometime when you really decide to look into the issue ..you may learn its really all about ..money and politics ..and PUBLIC perception and Culture..more than Guns or any law you can come up with to controll them .