Indeed this 900 degrees has got me angry in a lot of tough runs when I want to drive harder and come out of corners with a little bit of oversteer. 900 degrees may be realistic, BUT the game isn't making the wheel perform realistically. For instance, I can go into a tight corner in the game, hit the apex and immediately mash the throttle down anticipating oversteer out of the corner. What happens is the rear end will indeed kick out and the caster of the front wheels follow the direction that you are travelling and the wheel should auto rotate into that direction of left alone, then grab the wheel before it over corrects sending the nose into the opposite direction. The problem is the wheel (mine being G27) will not auto rotate counter steer as fast as it should in real life, making me FORCE the wheel in the same direction it's spinning to speed it's spin up. The problem here is when I force help the wheel to speed it up, often an over correction will happen OR it's turned too slow and wipe out. Usually I end up in some retarded uncontrollable rocking slide like I'm driving a huge boat. In real life when I take my RB26 240SX onto the track and do the same scenario, all I do is whip the wheel into the turn and the rear end will throw itself out. After I whip the wheel, I just simply let the wheel go and it will counter rotate itself extremely fast. All I do is grab it at the right time and just steer with my right foot after that. It's funny how this is a game and I feel more exhausted yanking the wheel back and forth compared to real life driving being a lot more simple to me.
Wheel configuration (900 degrees)
- Thread starter Patricko
- 55 comments
- 17,745 views
- 62
- RedVonHammer
- ToreDL87
I hear people saying not driving with 900 degrees is not pro, but may I offer a different reflection on the matter?
The Mazda 787B, the F1, the Kart, etc, has less steeringwheel lock than 900 degrees obviously.
I don`t like so much that the game is forcing me to use unrealistic steeringwheel lock which the car was not designed for, and on top of that it`s hard to drive, try hitting the perfect apex line with the 787B @ 900 degrees with manual clutch gear changing and you`ll know what I mean, you don`t have time for both so you have to choose, it`s either perfect braking, or hit the apex perfectly by steering like a mad man with too much steering corrections (Which again results in less cornering entry and exit speeds).
And obviously so, since the car was not designed with 900 degrees steeringwheel rotation in mind.. If the G25 steeringwheel degrees could have been set to the same as the 787B actually uses (I suspect either 720 or 540), there would have been no problem.
So yeah I think PD had better introduce us with a fix for this problem, owh and I dont give a crap whats pro or not, and I`m not complaining that it`s harder, quite the opposite I want what they intended to simulate, which is, as we can all agree on, is the slogan for this game
The Mazda 787B, the F1, the Kart, etc, has less steeringwheel lock than 900 degrees obviously.
I don`t like so much that the game is forcing me to use unrealistic steeringwheel lock which the car was not designed for, and on top of that it`s hard to drive, try hitting the perfect apex line with the 787B @ 900 degrees with manual clutch gear changing and you`ll know what I mean, you don`t have time for both so you have to choose, it`s either perfect braking, or hit the apex perfectly by steering like a mad man with too much steering corrections (Which again results in less cornering entry and exit speeds).
And obviously so, since the car was not designed with 900 degrees steeringwheel rotation in mind.. If the G25 steeringwheel degrees could have been set to the same as the 787B actually uses (I suspect either 720 or 540), there would have been no problem.
So yeah I think PD had better introduce us with a fix for this problem, owh and I dont give a crap whats pro or not, and I`m not complaining that it`s harder, quite the opposite I want what they intended to simulate, which is, as we can all agree on, is the slogan for this game
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
I think 900 is very real
I play with driving force GT with force feed back set to 10 (max) , steering set to simulation (real)
No driving aids only 1 ABS
I've been in the nurburgring for 2 days straight and you do need to have a high setting on force feed back because it will help a lot for your brain to react against oversteers or bumps that spit you out
The problem with some people is that they play with no force feed back at all which isn't real at all and will make the reaction time of their brains 0.
Once you play with full force feed back you'll have to get used to it first.
In gt5 prologue I first used my driving force GT same setting no aids not even ABS (although you do need 1 abs in gt5) the Ferrari 599 I drove oversteers like a lot if your not so good on throttle control. At first I was having a hard time but soon enough I did instant countersteering before the it even oversteered.
In GT5 Prologue the cars oversteered like 1/3 more than it is now in GT5
And I think that's because we have slicks tyres now in GT5
Gt5 prologue r3 racing tyres was more of a road going semi slick tyres
In the nurburgring I rarely get to an oversteer because chances are I already corrected it before it even came.
I'm starting to practice in the rain obviously with rain tyres and wet grip reduction setting set to real.
I think the rain part isn't real
The grip reduction in the rain isn't real at all
It isn't because I'm going too fast but it's not even steering on the wet?
It just wouldn't steer lol.
I was expecting a lot of slides but what I got was all understeers and I knew very much that I wasn't going too quickly.
I think the all understeering in wet is not real at all
Never ever seen it in wet formula 1 races LOL.
I was expecting something like this on my first try
Look at alonso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqJWxB1awlM
I've tested f2007 in GT5 prologue a lot in Suzuka
The kind of setting I made which Alonso was in
I made my own was both N1 tyres. Aerodynamics 150 on front 100 at the back + 2.0 camber front 0.0 back. That's like the rain setting of f2007 in gt5 prologue I made
But this all understeer in rain isn't real at all and I knew I wasn't over the limit in the wet
I play with driving force GT with force feed back set to 10 (max) , steering set to simulation (real)
No driving aids only 1 ABS
I've been in the nurburgring for 2 days straight and you do need to have a high setting on force feed back because it will help a lot for your brain to react against oversteers or bumps that spit you out
The problem with some people is that they play with no force feed back at all which isn't real at all and will make the reaction time of their brains 0.
Once you play with full force feed back you'll have to get used to it first.
In gt5 prologue I first used my driving force GT same setting no aids not even ABS (although you do need 1 abs in gt5) the Ferrari 599 I drove oversteers like a lot if your not so good on throttle control. At first I was having a hard time but soon enough I did instant countersteering before the it even oversteered.
In GT5 Prologue the cars oversteered like 1/3 more than it is now in GT5
And I think that's because we have slicks tyres now in GT5
Gt5 prologue r3 racing tyres was more of a road going semi slick tyres
In the nurburgring I rarely get to an oversteer because chances are I already corrected it before it even came.
I'm starting to practice in the rain obviously with rain tyres and wet grip reduction setting set to real.
I think the rain part isn't real
The grip reduction in the rain isn't real at all
It isn't because I'm going too fast but it's not even steering on the wet?
It just wouldn't steer lol.
I was expecting a lot of slides but what I got was all understeers and I knew very much that I wasn't going too quickly.
I think the all understeering in wet is not real at all
Never ever seen it in wet formula 1 races LOL.
I was expecting something like this on my first try
Look at alonso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqJWxB1awlM
I've tested f2007 in GT5 prologue a lot in Suzuka
The kind of setting I made which Alonso was in
I made my own was both N1 tyres. Aerodynamics 150 on front 100 at the back + 2.0 camber front 0.0 back. That's like the rain setting of f2007 in gt5 prologue I made
But this all understeer in rain isn't real at all and I knew I wasn't over the limit in the wet
- 782
- Canada
- tezster
@Enzo309 - driving with a wheel on Nürburgring is fantastic, and there's no problems with most tracks. But the truth is, in some tracks, 900 deg. steering can be a disadvantage given how the wheel responds (I also use a DFGT). One specific example would be the double-hairpin on Eiger Nordwand - it can be royal pain in the *ss trying to get through that section basically having to turn the wheel from lock to lock to lock.
I can get a better time using a DS3 controller than with the DFGT because of this. I don't see a problem with keeping 900° steering but adding shorter steering options as well.
edit: just to add, the 'simulation' setting doesn't have any effect on the DFGT - it's for older wheel models I believe (when you navigate to this option, look at which wheels are lit up, the DFGT isn't one of them).
I can get a better time using a DS3 controller than with the DFGT because of this. I don't see a problem with keeping 900° steering but adding shorter steering options as well.
edit: just to add, the 'simulation' setting doesn't have any effect on the DFGT - it's for older wheel models I believe (when you navigate to this option, look at which wheels are lit up, the DFGT isn't one of them).
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This for me.
I haven't come across any car that utilises the full 900 degrees. I hold my DFGT at the sides and turn 200 degress left and right anything further then it doesn't register. Infact after about 170 degrees the ingame animation doesn't even match that of me turning the DFGT.
So are you guys saying some cars require a full lock of the wheel to make a complete turn? the animation stops at about 170 degrees though.
I got my DFGT yesterday, still getting used to it.
I'm quicker with it than the controller, except when the rear starts to slide, getting opposite lock on quick enough is very hard and I end up spinning.
The steering animation stops, but the wheels continue to turn. I find the animation can be a bit decptive at times
I'm quicker with it than the controller, except when the rear starts to slide, getting opposite lock on quick enough is very hard and I end up spinning.
The steering animation stops, but the wheels continue to turn. I find the animation can be a bit decptive at times
- 12
- lolperson
Yea I get that. How about the paddle shifters; what is easier to use, the 'shift-stick' (attached on the right) or the back paddle shifters?
Sorry for going off topic OP, hope you don't mind.
Sometimes I paddle-shift on the left, and use the stick on the right. It allows my right hand varied access to the wheel while still being able to quickly down-shift with my left.
- 12
- lolperson
Prologue has the same rotation; they didn't change it for GT5.
The 900 degrees is only there to accomodate the full range of almost any vehicle with a steering wheel. You'll find the range varies from car to car, because every car has different ratios of steering radius.
Well-tuned cars require less turning, and of course remember that downshifting changes your gear ratios and you turn tighter just because of that, anyway.
The only place I've really needed to get crazy with the wheel are those turns on the mountain course that came with Prologue-- can't remember the name. But if you go out to your car, take it to a parking lot and watch how far you have to turn, to make a u-turn, and then back again, you'll see it's easily 350-450 degrees on each side, so having a 900 degree wheel isn't unrealistic, and why would someone want 300 degrees on a simulation? That just means you have way less control in the most important area, the middle zone. You're basically splitting 300 degrees and only having 150 each side, that's like 8-bit recording compared to 16-bit. Far less resolution.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
I dont think you can lol.
If it'd be lower
Then the max turning angle should be lowered as well.
And that is the reality of motorsports racing live with i
You can't say GT is all about tuning
This is not like the old GT's
This is GT5
This is the real driving simulator
You can't just demand steering the way you want it to be.
A car will have it's own originality when it comes to steering
You are not the manufacturer
You cannot say gt5 is all about tuning your car
This is not like GT4
This is the real driving simulator
You just can't make a demand this is the real driving simulation
You aren't the manufacturer
If you mean I can't tell PD what to do you're correct. But you can adjust the steering ratio in most PC games, and it's a common modification in drifting and autocross, since it reduces the need to release your hand from the wheel on sharp corners and increases feed back. Also for drifters it increases turning radius for greater angle during drifts. I never said GT5 is all about tuning, but tuning and driving are largely one. Hence we spend so much time figuring out optimum dampener settings, spring rates, down force, and what not. And we are alowed to adjust feed back, but not steering ratio?
- 13
I have both the G25 and the Gt-force wheel.. And i have no problems with the 900 degrees.. In go-cart if you use more than 30' you are screwed anyways.. in racing you never use more than 180 each way.. and then you are spinning of too..
Of these two wheels i would recomend the Gt-force. ive had it for 2 years.(or since it came out) and i had no problems with it.. The g25 goes offset after a while and cannot be corrected. or.. you have to whait untill its so offset you can remove the wheel and shift it one screwe left or right...
Of these two wheels i would recomend the Gt-force. ive had it for 2 years.(or since it came out) and i had no problems with it.. The g25 goes offset after a while and cannot be corrected. or.. you have to whait untill its so offset you can remove the wheel and shift it one screwe left or right...
- 133
- tifosi1991
I think a lot of this thread is the answer to my problems. It is almost impossible for me to hold a slide with the DFGT. I oversteer slightly and the rear kicks out and I can't turn the wheel back fast enough to hold it and keep it from spinning. I can't say what this is like in a real car since I've never driven fast on a track, but just from watching Top Gear it seems it's much easier to hold a slide in a real car.
That's because on TG it's much easier to spin the wheel back with one hand, as I do in my car. Try turning power steering on, that should make it a lot easier.
- 133
- tifosi1991
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
NB; Comments regarding managing G27 steering lock in relation to racing/coping with oversteer... NOT DRIFTING!
I don't find any problem with 900* of rotation, in fact I don't think I ever get near the lock stops unless I'm deliberately trying to drift (mostly unsuccessfully, but that's mainly LOFT on my side). For example; I don't need to cross my arms to get through the Eiger hairpins, and I'm no drifter, but I don't have any issues managing fairly big angles of slide post the apex... in fact I think it's much, much easier to manage big amounts of oversteer in GT5 than it was in GT5P.
There are a couple of bits of advice I'd pass on (trying not to sound patronising!!)...
1. THE SINGLE MOST IMPOTANT THING... Do not over load the front tyres going in to the turn... if you can hear/feel them sliding you're pushing too hard, understeering, and this will mean you need to put more lock on to make the turn... hence the issues you'll have winding enough lock on to make the apex. If you get your entry speed and line right you'll never need to use more than 180* of lock going in to the corner. The other benefit of this approach is that you'll get to the apex with less lock on and this will mean you have less lock to wind off as the car transitions to oversteer.
2. Managing the transition to oversteer. As said above, if you've got your entry speed and line right you won't have an excess of lock on at the apex, which means you'll be able to counter steer much faster if the back does swing round as you apply gas exiting the corner. It's important that you manage this transition smoothly with the throttle... mashing the accelerator on a powerful RWD car and expecting to be able to catch the resulting slide is unrealistic. You need to find the right amount of throttle to start the slide at a speed you can cope with... do this and you'll be able to catch it much more easily.
Sliding a car in real life even a few degrees off line for more than a few yards is hard (and somewhat dangerous on public roads)... getting a car proper sideways and holding it for a decent length of time is in turn much, much harder... no reason why it should be any easier in GT5.
I don't find any problem with 900* of rotation, in fact I don't think I ever get near the lock stops unless I'm deliberately trying to drift (mostly unsuccessfully, but that's mainly LOFT on my side). For example; I don't need to cross my arms to get through the Eiger hairpins, and I'm no drifter, but I don't have any issues managing fairly big angles of slide post the apex... in fact I think it's much, much easier to manage big amounts of oversteer in GT5 than it was in GT5P.
There are a couple of bits of advice I'd pass on (trying not to sound patronising!!)...
1. THE SINGLE MOST IMPOTANT THING... Do not over load the front tyres going in to the turn... if you can hear/feel them sliding you're pushing too hard, understeering, and this will mean you need to put more lock on to make the turn... hence the issues you'll have winding enough lock on to make the apex. If you get your entry speed and line right you'll never need to use more than 180* of lock going in to the corner. The other benefit of this approach is that you'll get to the apex with less lock on and this will mean you have less lock to wind off as the car transitions to oversteer.
2. Managing the transition to oversteer. As said above, if you've got your entry speed and line right you won't have an excess of lock on at the apex, which means you'll be able to counter steer much faster if the back does swing round as you apply gas exiting the corner. It's important that you manage this transition smoothly with the throttle... mashing the accelerator on a powerful RWD car and expecting to be able to catch the resulting slide is unrealistic. You need to find the right amount of throttle to start the slide at a speed you can cope with... do this and you'll be able to catch it much more easily.
Sliding a car in real life even a few degrees off line for more than a few yards is hard (and somewhat dangerous on public roads)... getting a car proper sideways and holding it for a decent length of time is in turn much, much harder... no reason why it should be any easier in GT5.
I find it impossible to drive the chromline R8 and the chromeline Lambo. I feel have to to turn the full 900 degrees to get round a corner. The cars handle like crap.
The handling (wheel rotation wise) was much, much better. I didn't have to spin the damn will so many times to get around a corner!
The handling (wheel rotation wise) was much, much better. I didn't have to spin the damn will so many times to get around a corner!
- 133
- tifosi1991
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
It's always down to our skills rather than the equipment... I watch videos or replays of people doing proper drifting (like Stepmania) and I so wish I had that level of talent
I couldn't care less if a few people think being unable to change from 900deg is realistic. Being able to control the cars with a DualShock controller is unrealistic but the option is still rightly included! So steering range should be changeable to suite personal preference regardless.
Those of you who like realism can keep it on 900deg if you like but PLEASE don't get in the way of improvements which other people would love to see. Giving people the option of having a smaller turning range will not spoil your enjoyment of the game in the slightest.
If any devs read this - please please please include options to adjust the steering wheel sensitivity. As it stands buying a wheel while great fun has made driving tight corners incredibly frustrating simply because you cannot get enough lock on (or off) fast enough.
Those of you who like realism can keep it on 900deg if you like but PLEASE don't get in the way of improvements which other people would love to see. Giving people the option of having a smaller turning range will not spoil your enjoyment of the game in the slightest.
If any devs read this - please please please include options to adjust the steering wheel sensitivity. As it stands buying a wheel while great fun has made driving tight corners incredibly frustrating simply because you cannot get enough lock on (or off) fast enough.
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Perhaps before someone replied that I just need to turn it faster, I should mention that some of us are seriously limited in space, having a fairly small living room and a family, so our 'cockpits' consist of a setee and the only table they have of remotely suitable size i.e. small coffee table.
Most of the time it's just fine - it only becomes an issue when trying to spin the wheel through very large angles very quickly. There's a serious danger of the table leaving the ground!
The more customiseable the controls are the better; Devs - please please please look into this! I love my wheel but I'd love it even more if it didn't reduce my lap times so much!
Most of the time it's just fine - it only becomes an issue when trying to spin the wheel through very large angles very quickly. There's a serious danger of the table leaving the ground!
The more customiseable the controls are the better; Devs - please please please look into this! I love my wheel but I'd love it even more if it didn't reduce my lap times so much!
Hmm..I'm wondering if there is any non-linear gear ratios applied by GT5 in any of the cars...
In real world there are cars out there with a non-linear ratio between steering wheel and steering rack movement. Meaning: you have to turn less on the steering wheel for the same wheel rotation in the middle of the rack and more close to the end-locks. This is basically to ease the parking manouvers. Eg. the BMW X series can have this feature if you are willing to pay the extra.
In real world there are cars out there with a non-linear ratio between steering wheel and steering rack movement. Meaning: you have to turn less on the steering wheel for the same wheel rotation in the middle of the rack and more close to the end-locks. This is basically to ease the parking manouvers. Eg. the BMW X series can have this feature if you are willing to pay the extra.
- 130
- Waltermydoinhere
I'm A-Spec lvl 28. I just finished the Indy 500 this morning using the Formula GT car. At speed it's as "twitchy" as anything I've ever driven (in game) but after a spin it takes LOTS of turn to get it to turn. I've never gone 240 in a real car before so I don' t know how tricky/twitchy they really are. I wish there was a way to change ratio's. Most PC racing sims (The better ones anyway) have a steering ratio adjustment. For different tracks you need different turn-in speeds. Example: If you're just running daytona oval, you want a nice easy 'slow' ratio. However, on Monaco (Whatever cold-de-zar freaking name they gave it in this game) , you'd want a fast ratio steering for all the hairpin and tight corners.
Nice Try GT5. So many things are close, but some crucial things left out.
Nice Try GT5. So many things are close, but some crucial things left out.
- 130
- Waltermydoinhere
Also wanted to note that I AutoX and even in complete hairpin corners I rarely have to do more than a slight shuffle steer (Never Arm over Arm as it's not the fast way!). In this game though with my G25 I have to go WAY BEYOND what I have to do in a real car to make a hairpin corner 'at-speed'.
I think the problem of the non adjustable 900 degree wheel is when coming out of a tight curve, the max. speed the wheel turns back to center just isn't fast enough, (like the real thing), thats the thing unrealistic about it. No doubt 900 degrees is more realistic, but having this return speed issue it's best in my opinion to have a, say 360 degree angle, so this limitation is less noticeable.
