Where did PD go Wrong?

[MaDHaX]

Hello guys and girl's,

I'm just sitting here at work bored out my nut because it is a quite period and scrolling through the GTPlanet forum's and i'm thinking to myself damn, where did PD go wrong?

I mean they have the ingredients but why does there seem to be a limit to what they can accomplish with their beloved sim?

Through my journey to find the perfect sim, I tried literally everything on the main stream market. I'm not going to go as far back as PSX where it all began for me but rather more recently from the start of buying my first wheel for GT5P.

Back then PD looked so promising and I was so excited about plugging my wheel and drive, then came the inevitable GT5. My wheel with a huge collection of cars and Nordschleife and I was set for life, didnt need anything else. Physics wise I was happy with GT5 and the FFB I got from my G25. But then certain things started bugging me, such as the sound, not enough customization, not enough support for DLC or more modern and classic sports cars, no Porsche or even premium RUF's.

Which is why I bought an Xbox 360 with FM4 and a Fanatec GT2 wheel. What actually made me do it was the sound, Porsche and the fact it was meant to be a sim with a wheel in hand. I had alot of fun on FM4 and dare I say almost more than I did with GT5 at the time. The reason FM4 appealed more to me was because of the choice of cars Turn 10 put in the game, the sound and oh, Porsche, and the fact that all the cars are heavily modifiable.

I did have alot of fun on FM4 but I felt that the FFB wasnt as good as GT5 so I was back on GT5 after a microsoft update which ruined my GT2 wheel compatibility with the console. After that was fixed my Xbox died so I gave up with that idea of the Turn 10 route.

Coming back to GT5 I felt like I was back home again with all the regular faces still driving around the Nordschleife. But GT5 just didnt appeal to me anymore, it was the sound of the cars that really got to me. I just couldnt go through it any longer, especially after FM4. So my next move was to build a gaming PC to experience what PC sim's had to offer.

What I've seen on PC and what you can do with PC games is incredible, now i'm thinking why did I not make this move sooner. I mean you can still play most of the mainstream games if you wanted to with a pad also so in essence it would still feel like you're playing on a console. If you have a PC you dont really need a console unless the games you want to play that is exclusive to the machine. Which brings me to this point I would like to make. With PC sim's you are delving into a highly customizable everything from hardware to software. If you're the DIY type then there is alot of fun doing all this, I built my own rig to house my wheel and the PC also. But more to the point, with the PS3 or Xbox we are limited to GT or FM, maybe because of that the said companies are not pushing themselves because there is no competition for the machines they develope for. Maybe that will change in the future but from what I see in GT6, PD is hanging on the verge of death put bluntly.

On PC in the upcoming releases we have some stunning looking new sim's to get a full release from beta which is exciting to say the least. Race Room Racing Experience which has good physics and FFB with the best car sounds I have ever heard in a game, and Assetto Corsa which looks and feels incredible. iRacing is also a top sim with superb sound, graphics and physics but can be a little on the expensive side buying cars and tracks.

If PD thinks they do not have competition in the sim world they are gravely mistaken, because people are starting to buy their own PC's, Microsoft also did a very silly move and that was they did not want to support the Fanatec franchise on their new system, forcing anyone that wanted to upgrade from FM4 to 5 to buy a new wheel if they used one before. This made some people shift to either PC gaming or GT6.

I'm not writting this long post to bad mouth PD but rather in hopes that PD will listen to reason. You cannot expect to release a game that is not complete and then fix it when the lifespan of that product is only one year. GT7 I think should be pushed back by at least another year. GT6 should be polished up and finished in the mean time and then they can really focus on bringing us a revolutionary GT7.
I think if GT7 is rushed out, it will be a failure and that will stop me from buying a PS4 because GT7 would be the only reason why I would buy one in the first place. They need to really work their magic with GT7, which means working on sound, a better clutch, a better balanced PP system, better car choices from old and new and a much more diverse customization with cars with a livery editor.

This really is the way for PD to go along with a huge city map (kind of like Forza Horizon) where people can meet and drive and maybe show off their favourite cars stored in their garage.

No flaming please, this is just a discussion on why PD isnt doing so good. I probably would not have written this if I was playing GT6, but the fact that there is a pit bug that changes the way the cars feel after pit is the reason why i'm not playing it. That and the fact it is taking far to long to fix this issue is the main reason for this thread.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

This really is the way for PD to go along with a huge city map (kind of like Forza Horizon) where people can meet and drive and maybe show off their favourite cars stored in their garage.

Definitely not, no way. Horizon was very lame, hated it and returned it after just a few days to get credit toward anything else.

I would 1000x rather have GT just as it is than have something like Horizon.

What PD really needs to do is communicate more and be careful what they say so as to not have people expecting something before it is ready to go. They also need to add a full leaderboard system to the game like yesterday.

FM2,3,4 decent games FM Horizon total waste of time and money.

 

[MaDHaX]

Definitely not, no way. Horizon was very lame, hated it and returned it after just a few days to get credit toward anything else.

I would 1000x rather have GT just as it is than have something like Horizon.

What PD really needs to do is communicate more and be careful what they say so as to not have people expecting something before it is ready to go. They also need to add a full leaderboard system to the game like yesterday.

FM2,3,4 decent games FM Horizon total waste of time and money.

I think it would be a good move on their part, it would be like a luxury hangout for friends to cruise and just past time.

Yes they definitely need leaderboards. They did manage to bring something like that for the license test's though, which is good.

 

[HuskyGT]

Marketing alliances that no one cares about, social media drama, poor communication with their fans (ones with serious criticism), multiple activities outside the game's development, sticking to traditions from one country that do nothing but hurt a game that is played all around the world, being oblivious of what the competition is doing, GT Academy, quantity over quality and aiming too high on certain aspects of the game before prioritizing what would really make the game better.

 

[guywithanAE86]

They didn't go wrong. They just...expanded. The thing about PD is that they're one of the few third-party companies left that haven't really gotten bigger. They probably have around 150 employees. It's gonna be hard to commit to all these promises that take time and money to program and code within certain time frames. Despite not having as much manpower as other bigwig video game companies, they're still able to make fantastic games like GT6 on an outdated and inferior console as well as all the partnerships with Nissan and the Instituto Ayrton Senna. That's a tall order for anybody.

Sure it can be avoided if they simply hired more staff so they had the power to meet these deadlines easier, or if they had an actual public relations guy to talk to us on what's going on. Another thing we tend to forget is that because PD is still a rather small company, they can't fulfill the wishes of every spoiled brat who wants a certain car or track. I'd feel rather pissed if I put my heart and soul into a game only for someone to say "WHY ISN'T THIS ONE CAR IN THE GAME YET EVERY OTHER CAR IS".

And don't you dare tell me PD should follow Forza's trail, those games are utter utter garbage. At least the cars in Gran Turismo actually handle like their real life counterparts and feel like they're on tarmac. Besides, why should there be a big overworld road? Forza Horizon and Need for speed have that and they're about street racing. Gran Turismo's always been about circuit driving, that makes no sense.

The reason I've always preferred Gran Turismo to games like Forza and Need for Speed is that a good percentage of the cars are cars that you can actually buy and drive in real life. Let's face it, Forza and NFS only have cult cars like the AE86 in the game because they're popular, if they weren't they wouldn't bat an eye towards them. PD on the other hand would add the AE86 if it weren't in Initial D, not because it's popular but because it's a damn awesome car. I like how PD pay attention to this and then bust their ass to make the car drive as if you were taking a spirited drive in a back road, and it would handle and feel no differently.

Just my two cents on this.

 

[MaDHaX]

Marketing alliances that no one cares about, social media drama, poor communication with their fans (ones with serious criticism), multiple activities outside the game's development, sticking to traditions from one country that do nothing but hurt a game that is played all around the world, being oblivious of what the competition is doing, GT Academy, quantity over quality and aiming too high on certain aspects of the game before prioritizing what would really make the game better.

I think quality over quantity is key here. We are at the next generation for consoles and PC's has evolved alot also and therefore the work that goes into graphics will be alot more in detail. But further than that we have a better machine to calculate physics thats going on under the hood so each car should be closer to the real thing if they want to keep the name "The Real Driving Simulator" and as for the sound, there is no longer an excuse for that.

Maybe it is time for PD to decide to take out those Standard cars and focus on the premium cars for better sound and physics.

 

[eSZee]

They didn't go wrong...Just my two cents on this.

5 posts in and we baked a potato.

 

[MaDHaX]

They didn't go wrong. They just...expanded. The thing about PD is that they're one of the few third-party companies left that haven't really gotten bigger. They probably have around 150 employees. It's gonna be hard to commit to all these promises that take time and money to program and code within certain time frames. Despite not having as much manpower as other bigwig video game companies, they're still able to make fantastic games like GT6 on an outdated and inferior console as well as all the partnerships with Nissan and the Instituto Ayrton Senna. That's a tall order for anybody.

150 staff is no small number, Kunos Simulazioni has 6 or 7 and look at what they have accomplished. If you cant keep to your promise then dont make those announcements as they are misleading people to buying the product.
I hold back my statement about GT6 until it is finished, as of now I feel the game is unfinished and therefore do not wish to play it.
My opinion, there shouldnt be a time frame in development. You work and when you're finished you release the product, anything else made after final completion should be added as DLC.

Sure it can be avoided if they simply hired more staff so they had the power to meet these deadlines easier, or if they had an actual public relations guy to talk to us on what's going on. Another thing we tend to forget is that because PD is still a rather small company, they can't fulfill the wishes of every spoiled brat who wants a certain car or track. I'd feel rather pissed if I put my heart and soul into a game only for someone to say "WHY ISN'T THIS ONE CAR IN THE GAME YET EVERY OTHER CAR IS".

Having someone writting a message to put up in a forum to say, yes we are aware of the pit bug and are looking into fixing it would be nice, it's not difficult and wouldnt even need to hire someone just to do that. As for the spoilt brat statement, well. This is a racing/driving sim that draws attention to itself, so naturally the more people play it the more people will want, hence an option for DLC. I dunno why PD doesnt take advantage of DLC because there is money to be made.
This game is made in Japan so I can understand why Kaz would concentrate on cars from Japan but why do we need 10 different models of the same car when there are other european legendary cars that should without a doubt be in a game like this. BMW M3 E30 and Ford Escort MkI comes to mind here.

And don't you dare tell me PD should follow Forza's trail, those games are utter utter garbage. At least the cars in Gran Turismo actually handle like their real life counterparts and feel like they're on tarmac. Besides, why should there be a big overworld road? Forza Horizon and Need for speed have that and they're about street racing. Gran Turismo's always been about circuit driving, that makes no sense.

PD should follow Forza's trail, after all the creator of FM Dan Greenawalt was inspired by GT. Forza is a game with incredible detail in the industry but yes I agree that the physics is not realistic as GT, however GT is not as realistic as you claim either. Have you driven and compared cars from GT to real life by any chance?
BTW i'm not saying PD should make a game like Forza Horizon, what I am saying is make one huge map on GT6 like a social gathering point with roads that feel like you're in a city (ala GTA V Style). This could be a DLC content or just another map on GT7.

The reason I've always preferred Gran Turismo to games like Forza and Need for Speed is that a good percentage of the cars are cars that you can actually buy and drive in real life. Let's face it, Forza and NFS only have cult cars like the AE86 in the game because they're popular, if they weren't they wouldn't bat an eye towards them. PD on the other hand would add the AE86 if it weren't in Initial D, not because it's popular but because it's a damn awesome car. I like how PD pay attention to this and then bust their ass to make the car drive as if you were taking a spirited drive in a back road, and it would handle and feel no differently.

I have to agree with you on this one but at the same time why have so many models of the same car? Turn 10 wanted to bring their audience a good variety for every class and I think they did a good job of it.

 

[pakiman740]

Bro there's like 3 different threads about this. Currently the maintenance thread is talking about the same thing, i come in peace. I have been scolded for dumb things in the past, just trying to save you.

 

[guywithanAE86]

150 staff is no small number, Kunos Simulazioni has 6 or 7 and look at what they have accomplished. If you cant keep to your promise then dont make those announcements as they are misleading people to buying the product.
I hold back my statement about GT6 until it is finished, as of now I feel the game is unfinished and therefore do not wish to play it.
My opinion, there shouldnt be a time frame in development. You work and when you're finished you release the product, anything else made after final completion should be added as DLC.



Having someone writting a message to put up in a forum to say, yes we are aware of the pit bug and are looking into fixing it would be nice, it's not difficult and wouldnt even need to hire someone just to do that. As for the spoilt brat statement, well. This is a racing/driving sim that draws attention to itself, so naturally the more people play it the more people will want, hence an option for DLC. I dunno why PD doesnt take advantage of DLC because there is money to be made.
This game is made in Japan so I can understand why Kaz would concentrate on cars from Japan but why do we need 10 different models of the same car when there are other european legendary cars that should without a doubt be in a game like this. BMW M3 E30 and Ford Escort MkI comes to mind here.



PD should follow Forza's trail, after all the creator of FM Dan Walte was inspired by GT. Forza is a game with incredible detail in the industry but yes I agree that the physics is not realistic as GT, however GT is not as realistic as you claim either. Have you driven and compared cars from GT to real life by any chance?
BTW i'm not saying PD should make a game like Forza Horizon, what I am saying is make one huge map on GT6 like a social gathering point with roads that feel like you're in a city (ala GTA V Style). This could be a DLC content or just another map on GT7.



I have to agree with you on this one but at the same time why have so many models of the same car? Turn 10 wanted to bring their audience a good variety for every class and I think they did a good job of it.

3rd paragraph there(bad at quoting lol): But seriously Forza has awful driving experience compared to the real life counterparts. I work as a valet driver and I've had my chances to drive a lot of the cars in Gran Turismo and Forza. A big example is the Toyota Supra RZ. When I tried it in Forza 4 it felt...light. It just flew into an oversteer slide every time I turned the car. In real life, the Supra's torque-y engine and heavy chassis gives it some understeer before snap oversteer when you accelerate into said corner. It simulated this in GT and a lot of other driving simulators, so I'm giving that one to GT. Same goes for the AE86. In Forza, the AE86 slides easy and it's even easier to hold the slides and accelerate. In GT when the car slides, it usually gets itself out of the slide if you stay away from the throttle since the car isn't very powerful, so if you're gonna drift it you need clutch kicking and weight shifting.

Last paragraph: I'm with you there. I don't see why PD needs 5,000 Skylines and Miatas. But keep in mind those are just standards carried over from GT4, and for 5 and 6 they combined the regions for each trim level each region got. I find it interesting how this doesn't apply in the newer games either, like the Z34 Fairlady Z isn't also the Nissan 370Z and how the newer Skylines aren't the Infiniti G37. That's just a curse GT4 left behind and they figured it didn't do any harm to remove them. And it really doesn't, since the guy who has that Miata or Skyline can be happy knowing his exact car is in the game. Hell I wish the AE86 coupe was in GT6 pretty bad, it's got a nice rear end!

 

[0zzy]

I love your a 'open world idea' if I'm understanding it properly.

It wouldn't be like Forza Horizon, because primarily it wouldn't be for racing. A small'ish open world (maybe 8-9 blocks in New York or something) where you can cruise with your friends online. It'd be purely for cruising, relaxing and taking photos. Of course, depending on the individual you could use this space for drag racing with your friends or plain messing about.

It wouldn't be anything like Forza horizon, just a small addition on the side which would let you cruise in your favorite car outside of a race with your friends. It'd be akin to what project gotham racing had - parking your favourite cars in anyway you'd like in a garage, or even the photo mode on GT - it'd be a way of enjoying your cars outside of racing.

 

[MaDHaX]

3rd paragraph there(bad at quoting lol): But seriously Forza has awful driving experience compared to the real life counterparts. I work as a valet driver and I've had my chances to drive a lot of the cars in Gran Turismo and Forza. A big example is the Toyota Supra RZ. When I tried it in Forza 4 it felt...light. It just flew into an oversteer slide every time I turned the car. In real life, the Supra's torque-y engine and heavy chassis gives it some understeer before snap oversteer when you accelerate into said corner. It simulated this in GT and a lot of other driving simulators, so I'm giving that one to GT. Same goes for the AE86. In Forza, the AE86 slides easy and it's even easier to hold the slides and accelerate. In GT when the car slides, it usually gets itself out of the slide if you stay away from the throttle since the car isn't very powerful, so if you're gonna drift it you need clutch kicking and weight shifting.

Last paragraph: I'm with you there. I don't see why PD needs 5,000 Skylines and Miatas. But keep in mind those are just standards carried over from GT4, and for 5 and 6 they combined the regions for each trim level each region got. I find it interesting how this doesn't apply in the newer games either, like the Z34 Fairlady Z isn't also the Nissan 370Z and how the newer Skylines aren't the Infiniti G37. That's just a curse GT4 left behind and they figured it didn't do any harm to remove them. And it really doesn't, since the guy who has that Miata or Skyline can be happy knowing his exact car is in the game. Hell I wish the AE86 coupe was in GT6 pretty bad, it's got a nice rear end!

Yep I do agree that GT feels better than Forza in terms of physics and handling but what I wanted to indicate was that FM is better thought out, and for that reason it is a better finished product if you minus the physics and handling. GT has the physics down but isnt perfect either though. PC sim's on the other hand feel better, much better.

*EDIT* Yes the AE86 Coupe does look very sexy

 

[Bopop4]

"Where did they go wrong."

In 2002, that's when.

 

[Gerarghini]

Probably when they said standard cars would still be in the game or announcing it on PS3.

 

[eran0004]

Well, I think they're really good at making ingredients. Flour, milk, sugar, eggs, etc.
When they mix everything to make the cake, that's where they fall short.

There's so much potential in the assets they produced, but it feels like they only use a fragment of it.

I think they need to hire an event designer.

 

[Rrralphster]

Where did they go wrong?

I'm not sure where, but it has to do with claiming that there will be better AI.
Most other things, I think, can be forgiven. Or fixed.

Derpy AI probably can't.
I expected "Grid starts" as one of the things that improved AI would bring.


I feel like I bought this instead:

 

[NA]

OMG, I haven't seen one of those in decades! I think the last one I saw was mine, and I don't even remember what happened to it. Too funny.

 

[jagenigma]

PD didn't go wrong. The evergrowing selfish fan base went wrong.

 

[Jawehawk]

PD didn't go wrong. The evergrowing selfish fan base went wrong.

Hahaha. You're hilarious. And entirely delusional...

 

[starknight97]

PD didn't go wrong. The evergrowing selfish fan base went wrong.

I think that's the opposite of what happened. PD have gone selfish making a game for themselves e.g. crappy crash physics because Kaz don't even have the guts to work on it and they are just focused on making a game where everyone can win and feel like a pro ( to try and beat gt5 sales) which backfired when everyone realized they were being patronized. (excuse me if I'm wrong I'm tired).

 

[Madertus]

Marketing alliances that no one cares about, social media drama, poor communication with their fans (ones with serious criticism), multiple activities outside the game's development, sticking to traditions from one country that do nothing but hurt a game that is played all around the world, being oblivious of what the competition is doing, GT Academy, quantity over quality and aiming too high on certain aspects of the game before prioritizing what would really make the game better.

HuskyGT the Great, everyone!

The first step to GT6 final downfall (which I believe is happening now too) was releasing "the second" VGT car.

*Slightly modifies an already existing vehicle*
-Here, take this new magnificent machine!

Not fair and not funny, PD.

The second step is being dead silent. No communication at all with e.g. facebook available - absolutely inexcusable.

 

[Stumps_GTI]

PD didn't go wrong. The evergrowing selfish fan base went wrong.

Ever growing.....that is what has me concerned.

 

[IceMan PJN]

PD didn't go wrong. The evergrowing selfish fan base went wrong.

Nobody is going to take that seriously. Even diehard GT fans have been growing increasingly disinterested in the series as a whole. One friend, who put thousands of hours into the series on PSX and PS2, sold his PS3 after GT5 and has absolutely no interest in GT6 because it's just a GT game. It doesn't move people any longer. It's missing the mark in too many places.

The rest of the industry is leaving GT behind while PD still hang out in the PSX and PS2 days. A nice physics engine and a ton of cars recycled from old hardware aren't enough now. The rest of the package needs to improve and PD are incapable of doing that. They just don't get what the players want.

 

[yabiggoose]

Sheer bloody lack of communication from them.

 

[mirial]

There are clear signs that suggest PD are unfortunately heavily influenced by Sony from the point of view of making the whole package for the Global market rather than a fraternity of frustrated racing drivers and car enthusiasts....in a similar way F1 has gone this way too.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Where did it go wrong?

My guess.

1. They bought into the lies of lazy games journalists who kept saying "One player is dead, it all about the online now"

This explains the total rubbish GT-mode of GT5.

2. They analysed the save data of GT5 players and found that most people didn't bother with GT-Mode and concentrated on online seasonal's instead.

They reached the wrong conclusion that players didn't want GT-Mode, just Seasonal's, so they gave us GT6 with nothing but Seasonal's in it.

I'd say that just about covers it.

 

[MaDHaX]

Just maybe GT has always been appealing to the loyal fans who like me has been playing GT all along, I have always preferred to play the PD franchise rather than the T10 even when I had an Xbox with FM1 and 2, and why would I do that I hear you may ask? Well simple answer is I preferred the physics and there wasn't much competition then trying to simulate driving.

Today however we have at least 10 options for an immersive experience. I am in my thirties, no longer a young teenager that was gullible into thinking something is real because the main stream media says so. I have the ability to tell the difference of a realistic simulator, and as an individual that has taken the opportunity to experience a simulator through a wheel has broadened that depth of view.

Those people like me that have played GT all these years that want a more immersive experience from a sim are starting to look at these other options we now have that wasn't present when GT was in it's infancy. Now however it seems that PD are being left behind when it should be PD leading that path of a true simulator.

It doesnt make much sense to me how a small group of 6-7 people can make a simulator that is far ahead of GT6, how is that actually possible?
Maybe PD need to think about what kind of employees they should sack and hire. I think it's the nature of the business, Image Space Incorporated and Kunos Simulazioni both have worked with Formula one teams for at least afew years. They are expert programmers that write programmes to translate real life data into a simulated physics model. For example when coding the physics of a car, the car should have an exact physics model coming out of the pits after a tyre change and full fuel as the car did when it went out the first time onto the track with fresh tyres and full fuel, but that is not true for GT6. Meaning there is a coding flaw here somewhere because I cant imagine it would be done on purpose.
Which brings me back to the hiring and firing part back of staff that should and shouldn't be there. Programming is very difficult granted, plus there are machine obstacles that a developer has to overcome, but then I come back to Kunos. How is it possible that a small group has accomplished so much with under 10 staff?

Simple answer would be, they know what they are doing.

 

[NixxxoN]

I will say 3 quick things:

1) PS3 sucks compared to a powerful PC of today, so it's very unfair to compare GT5/GT6 to a PC game.

2) PD are doing well in some areas and not so well in others. I suppose they going to drop the problematic PS3 soon to focus in the PS4 though. They will solve all the problems there.

3) GT and Forza are different games. People should pretending GT should be exactly like Forza, because it wont. If you like Forza so much, then the best is to buy an xbox, and go play it.

 

[Allek]

They didn't go wrong. They just...expanded. The thing about PD is that they're one of the few third-party companies left that haven't really gotten bigger. They probably have around 150 employees. It's gonna be hard to commit to all these promises that take time and money to program and code within certain time frames. Despite not having as much manpower as other bigwig video game companies, they're still able to make fantastic games like GT6 on an outdated and inferior console as well as all the partnerships with Nissan and the Instituto Ayrton Senna. That's a tall order for anybody.

Sure it can be avoided if they simply hired more staff so they had the power to meet these deadlines easier, or if they had an actual public relations guy to talk to us on what's going on. Another thing we tend to forget is that because PD is still a rather small company, they can't fulfill the wishes of every spoiled brat who wants a certain car or track. I'd feel rather pissed if I put my heart and soul into a game only for someone to say "WHY ISN'T THIS ONE CAR IN THE GAME YET EVERY OTHER CAR IS".

And don't you dare tell me PD should follow Forza's trail, those games are utter utter garbage. At least the cars in Gran Turismo actually handle like their real life counterparts and feel like they're on tarmac. Besides, why should there be a big overworld road? Forza Horizon and Need for speed have that and they're about street racing. Gran Turismo's always been about circuit driving, that makes no sense.

The reason I've always preferred Gran Turismo to games like Forza and Need for Speed is that a good percentage of the cars are cars that you can actually buy and drive in real life. Let's face it, Forza and NFS only have cult cars like the AE86 in the game because they're popular, if they weren't they wouldn't bat an eye towards them. PD on the other hand would add the AE86 if it weren't in Initial D, not because it's popular but because it's a damn awesome car. I like how PD pay attention to this and then bust their ass to make the car drive as if you were taking a spirited drive in a back road, and it would handle and feel no differently.

Just my two cents on this.

Fantastic.

 

[BrandonW77]

They went wrong by waiting to add the bulk of the content until after most people have shelved/sold the game. By the time we get these so-called "community features" there's only going to be a dozen people left playing online.