Where is the fun in saving tyres and fuel?

[Revver00]

Simple question really. Where is the fun in saving tyres and fuel? For me, there is none. I take no pleasure whatsoever in beating a faster driver, just because I used less tyres and fuel than him, just because I am slower and not maximising the tyres and engine for laptimes and results. The fastest driver should win, in sprint races anyway. Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

I like to go flat out and I respect drivers who are faster than me in flat out races. How fast you go when flat out is how good you are, especially if it means being flat out over 5 or 10 laps. I find it a real shame that all FIA races now have tyre wear and fuel management needed now. That was the only place left I had to enjoy racing flat out.

Even with the options / tyre refresh exploit, we still have the tyre and fuel thing to deal with in race C. It spoils the fun aspect makes it hard work and seems crazy to me. I am sure others will have different opinions though

 

[cleanLX]

The fastest driver should win, in sprint races anyway. Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

100%

 

[JacksHerer]

Yeh I totally disagree, there are A and B races for people who want to go flat out. There is qualifying and leaderboards too.

For people who want to apply strategy to their race, there is only race C.

 

[ASH32]

Yeh I totally disagree, there are A and B races for people who want to go flat out. There is qualifying and leaderboards too.

For people who want to apply strategy to their race, there is only race C.

Yes race B should be extended a little but that's it. In any case most C races have not needed much management, I've used map 1 more often than not easily. The top guys usually still beat me too, only sometimes they don't if they pit when it's not really needed and they soon learn not to do that again.

 

[ceres2000]

Well I respect faster drivers but that doesn't really mean I cannot use whatever strategy I can to beat one. It's also extremely challenging to try to keep up with someone on fuel map 1 when you're running fuel map 3 or 4. The number of times ive gained positions by simply running a lower fuel map for a few laps and then going fuel map 1 and only pitting for a tire change. I think it's exhilarating and extremely rewarding.

 

[JacksHerer]

If anything, I would like more tire wear and more fuel usage lol, and the ability to choose tires.

But I would also prefer if the usage wasn't displayed and was randomised, so that people couldn't practice for a race and had to do the strategy in their head on the fly.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

It can open up other cars for a race as well. I have used the Gr3 GTR a few times and jumped people at pitstops, whereas I would have little chance to overtake them during the race so would be forced to use the porsche/bmw m6. I like to try and use all my cars, not just the 'best' ones.

 

[Scaff]

Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

Given that only 6% of GTS owners have completed more than 20 races on-line, how many do you think would actually take part in true endurance races online?

Having a race a day that effectively speed's up time to give that experience, without having a lap count that would put many off is not, in my view, unreasonable.

 

[Veinz]

The 15x tire wear is a bit OTT.

 

[Famine]

I take no pleasure whatsoever in beating a faster driver, just because I used less tyres and fuel than him, just because I am slower and not maximising the tyres and engine for laptimes and results.

"To finish first, first you must finish". Destroy your car's vital components (like... tyres) and it doesn't matter how fast you are, you won't win.

Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

Tyre wear comes into play in real-life races over similar distances. BTCC, for example, uses two compounds, one of which is clearly faster but wears much more quickly. Their races are rarely over 30 miles, and 12 laps of Suzuka is 40 miles...

 

[ASH32]

The 15x tire wear is a bit OTT.

I think it's an attempt to make everyone pit because without these massive multipliers you can avoiding pitting easily in most cases.

 

[JulesDennis]

Simple question really. Where is the fun in saving tyres and fuel? For me, there is none. I take no pleasure whatsoever in beating a faster driver, just because I used less tyres and fuel than him, just because I am slower and not maximising the tyres and engine for laptimes and results. The fastest driver should win, in sprint races anyway. Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

I like to go flat out and I respect drivers who are faster than me in flat out races. How fast you go when flat out is how good you are, especially if it means being flat out over 5 or 10 laps. I find it a real shame that all FIA races now have tyre wear and fuel management needed now. That was the only place left I had to enjoy racing flat out.

Even with the options / tyre refresh exploit, we still have the tyre and fuel thing to deal with in race C. It spoils the fun aspect makes it hard work and seems crazy to me. I am sure others will have different opinions though

Managing tyre wear and fuel also is part of being a good or really good racer.Even in sim racing "endurance" is not 20 or 30 min races.Its at least a 2 hours race.
In iRacing you get to do (with a team) 24h -in real time- races.There you can actually prove how good you and your teamates are.Taking care of the car and overall pace need to be on a top level in order to be competitive agaist the best drivers/teams.

 

[zzz_pt]

If he wins with fuel map 3 and old tires, he's the fastest driver though.

I've won a lot of races where I didn't pit and was using fuel maps and short shifting. This doesn't mean I'm not going flat out. I was often just as fast as people on fuel map 1 who were burning their tires to the max.

IMO, the winner is the fastest on track regardless of going to the pits or not. I'm excluding exploiters for obvious reasons.

 

[GTWelsh]

The higher the fuel usage the more beneficial it is to just sit at Map 6 and run low revs to avoid pitting and taking the lengthy spell of refuelling.

Which makes it boring!

1, 2 or maybe 3x fuel usage

1, 2 or maybe 3x tyre usage

Any more and it becomes annoying.

15 lap race with 3x tyre wear with unlimited tyres brings up interesting results. Run the whole race on RH? RM? Pit once with RS? Pit once and have pretty nasty worn tyres with RSS? Go for a 2 pit with RSS?

Tyre strategy is good fun, fuel strategy is not. Overly high tyre wear though results in small wheelspins causing bad wear and I'd imagine any discrepancies between cars and how they are on tyres gets magnified.

I've been racing in lobbies with pretty good settings that are good fun, this 15x stuff sounds annoying.

 

[TheGeologist]

To be a winner, you must be fast, clean and smart. We should never shame a driver for being smart.

20th place cannot save fuel/tires to win the race, but third can. That driver is fast, are they not? The pole winner does not always win the race ya know

 

[Krypton78]

Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

Thanks, somebody else also thinks the same way! The worst thing is, on the way of finding the right strategy you loose so many DR! At the beginning I was dropped down to DR B cause of this BS. So i was forced to play A and B- races to get back to DR A

 

[JacksHerer]

In real life there is no such thing as a non tire wear race. I realise this is just a game, but I like to think most of us want to replicate real life racing in a game.

 

[Pedinhuh]

Yesterday I started at 14th and finished 7th in the gr1 race at Interlagos thanks to skipping the pit stop and racing 10 out of 12 laps on fuel map 6, switching to 1 at the main straight for more speed.

The SRT VGT I used was surprisingly good on the Tyres because of TCS(no way I'm racing any of these gr1 cars without TCS).

I say it worked, given my initial position, driving fast also means driving smarter.

 

[Krypton78]

In real life there is no such thing as a non tire wear race. I realise this is just a game, but I like to think most of us want to replicate real life racing in a game.

Yes, but in real races the tyres will not be destroyed after 5 laps and you have more than 10 laps also! So you have a chance to compensate a wrong decission during the race. In an DR A/S - field with only 10 laps you are ruined in that case. And what often happens is, in a situation where you have new tyres and someone in front of you was not in the pit and is much slower, you are forced to drive too risky to overtake him cause you have only half a lap to go

 

[JacksHerer]

Hot lapping pace would destroy your tires, but it depends what motor racing, in formula 1 you can destroy your tires with a brake lock up, use them too much in the start of a lap and not have enough ultimate grip at the end of the lap.
You certainly need to think about your tires and not just hot lap from memory of static conditions.

And on tracks where track position is king, you need to think when to pit, doing over cuts or under cuts, getting out of traffic etc etc

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's simple, the sped up tire wear and fuel use should be reflected in faster pit times. X4 fuel use, X4 fuel flow in the pit. X15 tire wear, X15 tire change speed in the pit. Take the average of those 2 values to reduce the time lost on the pit lane. That will balance it out.

Pit time has too much influence on race time in a 15-20 minute race, it's not realistic. If you speed up one part, you have to speed up the other as well.

 

[pedrocor]

Managing fuel and tires is part of racing.

Not just endurance racing but sprint racing too, specially managing the tires.
Racing without pit stops doesn't mean there isn't tyre wear or a limit on fuel available for the race distance.
In Sport Mode only 1 of 3 races considers fuel and tire depletion. And the game doesn't even consider things like flat spot your tires.
Not a fan of excessive multiplier on tire wear and fuel consuption, but makes absolutly sense that you should take care of fuel and tires over race distance.

In recent years, in WTCC, which nowadays is undoubtly a sprint race format championship, many drivers had many problems with tire wear and even some blowouts in the Nordschleife 4 lap races, just a notch over 100km.

 

[NommyNom]

The sped up wear mimics it just fine, I mean you know the wear rate before going in so plan for it. Not everyone has 40-60 min at a time every day to put time in, and that’s not even including qualifying for dailies or cup races. Maybe the qualifying with ghost for daily races should include fuel/tire, wouldn’t that be annoying haha (annoyingly fun)

 

[NJ72]

My 2 cents: I enjoy the lateral challenge it can present. In races A and B, as said, it is all about driving consistently fast. In Race C (or any event with tyre and fuel management) you get the opportunity to use tactics.

It's not as simple as 'use less fuel, win the race' as knowing when to pit can be important. If you want to pit early to get some clean air, then that can help, if you want to pit late as you're in a good rhythm, then great.

It adds a bit more complexity to it, which I like. Not always, but it's a different dynamic.

 

[th3o]

It actually requires more skill to drive the car as fast as possible and at the same time as strategic as possible, managing resources, than to just drive as fast as possible regardless of anything else.
It is of course a skill to be fast. But to be fast AND efficient, is priceless.

 

[EDK]

Simple question really. Where is the fun in saving tyres and fuel? For me, there is none. I take no pleasure whatsoever in beating a faster driver, just because I used less tyres and fuel than him, just because I am slower and not maximising the tyres and engine for laptimes and results. The fastest driver should win, in sprint races anyway. Maybe there is an argument for Endurance races to have the tyre and fuel wear e.g. GR.1 at Le Mans, but not in an M4 at Suzuka in a 10 or 12 lap race, that just seems silly to me!

I like to go flat out and I respect drivers who are faster than me in flat out races. How fast you go when flat out is how good you are, especially if it means being flat out over 5 or 10 laps. I find it a real shame that all FIA races now have tyre wear and fuel management needed now. That was the only place left I had to enjoy racing flat out.

Even with the options / tyre refresh exploit, we still have the tyre and fuel thing to deal with in race C. It spoils the fun aspect makes it hard work and seems crazy to me. I am sure others will have different opinions though

It's part of race strategy in real life, no matter the series. Even in a sprint type series without stops, there's some degree of tire saving that's required, and the fuel fill will try to balance car pace with weight, and will choose the fastest strategy. At times, that may require fuel saving to still ultimately be faster.

As others have stated, proper utilization of the resources at your disposal is part of being the fastest across the race distance, not just the fastest over a single lap.

I've always been a bit easier on my tires, even as compared to drivers of similar pace. So given the opportunity of a choice between the number of stops, I will always take the fewest stops possible/practical. In the case of these races, as soon as you have to set a map number any higher than 3, you may as well stop. But for a lot of these races, I can zero stop by running map 2 and short shifting, and even mix in some map 1.

That's not to say it would be the fastest strategy for every driver, but it will nearly always be the right strategy for me.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Isn't the "fastest driver" the one that finishes the race first?

If the win just goes to the "fastest driver", then just ghost everyone and give the win to the guy who sets the fastest lap.

 

[Outspacer]

The higher the fuel usage the more beneficial it is to just sit at Map 6 and run low revs to avoid pitting and taking the lengthy spell of refuelling.

Which makes it boring!

1, 2 or maybe 3x fuel usage

1, 2 or maybe 3x tyre usage

Any more and it becomes annoying.

15 lap race with 3x tyre wear with unlimited tyres brings up interesting results. Run the whole race on RH? RM? Pit once with RS? Pit once and have pretty nasty worn tyres with RSS? Go for a 2 pit with RSS?

Tyre strategy is good fun, fuel strategy is not. Overly high tyre wear though results in small wheelspins causing bad wear and I'd imagine any discrepancies between cars and how they are on tyres gets magnified.

I've been racing in lobbies with pretty good settings that are good fun, this 15x stuff sounds annoying.

Annoying, yes... certainly when every Race C has it. PD just aren't being imaginitive with how they set up that daily, it could be so much better with less artificial rates, even if it sometimes still used extreme values. There's just no variety to it, always trying to force a pit stop. And if there's a car that does best with a no-stop strategy, it can quickly become a one-make.

It's simple, the sped up tire wear and fuel use should be reflected in faster pit times. X4 fuel use, X4 fuel flow in the pit. X15 tire wear, X15 tire change speed in the pit. Take the average of those 2 values to reduce the time lost on the pit lane. That will balance it out.

Pit time has too much influence on race time in a 15-20 minute race, it's not realistic. If you speed up one part, you have to speed up the other as well.

Pretty good idea. With a bit of tweaking of the rates it could achieve their goal of effectively forcing a pit stop into the race; I don't think it needs to be sped up as much as that to make it the preferred option.

 

[cleanLX]

Did not read all the replies, but, look, real racing simulator.
Gr.3 cars have a 20gal fuel tank and get approx 8mpg... that's 160 miles... give us an endurance race, or at least a 30 lapper and throw fuel and tire pits in...
I'm fine with consumption and wear, but requiring a pit in a ten lap race... please. NurbGP... ~2.3miles... so, pit for fuel every ~60 laps... sure, tires wear faster... at least make it somewhat real... maybe half or quarter real word circumstances... means we'd pit for tires every 15-20 laps and take fuel every ~30 laps...
And, if we really want strategy, give us compound options.

 

[JulesDennis]

Did not read all the replies, but, look, real racing simulator.
Gr.3 cars have a 20gal fuel tank and get approx 8mpg... that's 160 miles... give us an endurance race, or at least a 30 lapper and throw fuel and tire pits in...
I'm fine with consumption and wear, but requiring a pit in a ten lap race... please. NurbGP... ~2.3miles... so, pit for fuel every ~60 laps... sure, tires wear faster... at least make it somewhat real... maybe half or quarter real word circumstances... means we'd pit for tires every 15-20 laps and take fuel every ~30 laps...
And, if we really want strategy, give us compound options.

I agree to that.But I have a feeling that the majority of active GTS players would not be happy with races that last longer than they do now.