Which games do you consider as serious racing simulators?
- Thread starter Strittan
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- 154
This shows how people have no clue what a racing simulator is. That Forza 3 is ignored makes sense but then GT 5 should be excluded as well as neither is a "racing simulator" at all. Lack of qualifying for any or all races as well as the A.I. in GT which makes it a large stretch to call it racing and not just trying to out drive the A.I..
GT's have always claimed to try to simulate driving not racing and that is what they deliver.
GT's have always claimed to try to simulate driving not racing and that is what they deliver.
Strittan
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What's the difference? If GT simulates driving a car well, and then let's you race friends online it automaticly becomes a racing simulator!
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voted "others" too, as I'm currently playing GT PSP, wich is the only simulator to date on a portable device 
Strittan
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I have unfortunately not tried iRacing yet, but I've read that you can quickly get into GT5P directly after playing iRacing and vice versa. That has to mean something.
I'm not saying I'm right about anything though, but when I get a DFGT I might.
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An elitist smart ass has appeared!
You know what the OP meant by racing simulator, so stop spamming with this semantics non-sense.
Keef
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If you actually race, then pretty much any semi-realistic driving game can become a "racing simulator", as Strittan suggested. If you don't use the game to race other people, well then, you're not using it as a racing simulator.
I voted for GT, iRacing, LFS, SimBin, and Richard Burns. Especially the first four, they all have have good, popular online communities with their fair share of serious racing enthusiasts. Many people are very competitive, follow the rules, race clean, race hard, etc. iRacing is probably the most serious out of the bunch, simply because people don't typically shell out serious money unless they're serious about racing. But all these games combine a realistic experience with tough real-world competition notably better than other games in the category.
I voted for GT, iRacing, LFS, SimBin, and Richard Burns. Especially the first four, they all have have good, popular online communities with their fair share of serious racing enthusiasts. Many people are very competitive, follow the rules, race clean, race hard, etc. iRacing is probably the most serious out of the bunch, simply because people don't typically shell out serious money unless they're serious about racing. But all these games combine a realistic experience with tough real-world competition notably better than other games in the category.
- 154
A GT addict is butthurt at my more literal interpretation, what a suprise.
Being so biased for something and unable to see it realistically is not mentally hygienic. Is it my fault for taking his "serious racing simulator" literally? I like GT for what it is but it has faults, some of it's fans take that personally and think it's the 2nd coming at times.
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- RykonZero
iRacing, rFactor, and GTR fall under the category of "Serious racing" simulator. Race cars, race cars, and more race cars, coupled with the incredibly unforgiving physics that emulate real life.
Gran Turismo, Forza, those games, fall under the category of "Driving" simulator. They have the cars you will actually drive, the cars you won't ever drive, the means to make the cars that you'll drive beat the cars that you won't be able to drive, and make the entire experience challenging, but fun, having realistic physics with a nice taste of arcade to keep you from being frustrated. (Most of the time.)
Gran Turismo, Forza, those games, fall under the category of "Driving" simulator. They have the cars you will actually drive, the cars you won't ever drive, the means to make the cars that you'll drive beat the cars that you won't be able to drive, and make the entire experience challenging, but fun, having realistic physics with a nice taste of arcade to keep you from being frustrated. (Most of the time.)
- 906
GT is on par with FM. In other words, not a serious simulator.
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- GTP_Raitzi
Serious can many things to other people. I can say that there is only one arcade game on the list, NFS shift. Others are more and less trying to simulate many aspects of cars, car culture and racing life. I do not really like most of the sim bim titles but i own GT legends. At least when i last played FFB was not as good as with lfs but everything else was really nice with old cars.
The Vanishing Boy
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-> I consider iRacing, rFactor, Live for Speed, GTR series, Richard Burns Rally, & Ferrari F355 Challenge (as the other; yes, its an arcade version) as serious sims. Forza on the other hand is considered as casual sims. While GT (5 for that matter) is a boundary between casual and serious sims.
-> Why? Simple. Its the element of having fun while playing these games. For some reason, I never had fun with serious sims as of yet. While in Forza, there is something missing that is hard to describe thru text. GT has the element of fun that all serious sims fail to impress thats why I still like GT as what it is.
-> Why? Simple. Its the element of having fun while playing these games. For some reason, I never had fun with serious sims as of yet. While in Forza, there is something missing that is hard to describe thru text. GT has the element of fun that all serious sims fail to impress thats why I still like GT as what it is.
mafia_boy
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I'm going to go left field with my choice of "other".
I prefer "IHRA motorsports" by Bethesda as it has the most tuning options of ANY of the racing games that have been listed. Yes, it is only for people who are into drag racing but the physics of the cars are more realistic than the above list (and this is a game that's more than 5 years old!) with the ability to do burnouts, warming the tyres, fitting wheelie bars, PROPER drag slicks or DOT tyres, transmission brakes, and tuning the suspension/motor/gearbox & chassis to the absolute limits which is not found in any mainstream car racing game. It also has realistic damage which games today STILL struggle to get a grasp of.
And
@ Hardvibes, you make me want to play Outrun (or Outrunners) on MAME now after seeing that pic.
I prefer "IHRA motorsports" by Bethesda as it has the most tuning options of ANY of the racing games that have been listed. Yes, it is only for people who are into drag racing but the physics of the cars are more realistic than the above list (and this is a game that's more than 5 years old!) with the ability to do burnouts, warming the tyres, fitting wheelie bars, PROPER drag slicks or DOT tyres, transmission brakes, and tuning the suspension/motor/gearbox & chassis to the absolute limits which is not found in any mainstream car racing game. It also has realistic damage which games today STILL struggle to get a grasp of.
And
@ Hardvibes, you make me want to play Outrun (or Outrunners) on MAME now after seeing that pic. 
iRacing, LFS, GTR (original version), rFactor, Nascar 2003.
Untill today, I never considered gran turismo to be a simulator. I'll have to wait and see what GT5 has to offer when it's released.
Sony/PD wants to make a mass selling game. Like others said, if they should make a hardcore sim, they commit suicide, commercially. GT is close to become a simulator though.
Little example: Last year (summer of 2008), I was trying to determine if GT5p had proper braking physics. It turned put that it hasn't. You can turn off ABS and the wheels of the car lock up under heavy braking BUT it was still possible to steer the car, even with locked front wheels. This is not how it works IRL.
I took the Ferrari on Suzuka, drove an entire lap to get enough speed on the back straight and applied full brakes at the end before the two right hand turns. ABS was turned off, the front wheels locked up (you can hear the tires squeal) and turned the steering wheel from right to left to right to left to ...
After this test, I watched the replay and yes, sure enough, you can see that the front wheels locked up and it was still possible to steer. If PD can make a real car that can do that IRL, ABS is no more needed.
But that's not all. Low speed physics aren't correct. Weight transfer is definitely not correct.
The off track physics are still a joke in GT.
Please remember that I'm talking about all Gran Gurismos untill GT5p. I haven't tried GT5D TT because I don't have a PS3 anymore.
Other stuff that makes a game a sim:
Simulation of auto racing accurately in all it's aspects
GT started out as The Real Driving Simulator and I don't think that PD wants to change the title into The Real Racing Simulator.
- NetKar Pro
- GPL (grand prix legends)
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- Historic GT & Touring Cars > GT Legends mod for rFactor
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- TORCS
Untill today, I never considered gran turismo to be a simulator. I'll have to wait and see what GT5 has to offer when it's released.
Sony/PD wants to make a mass selling game. Like others said, if they should make a hardcore sim, they commit suicide, commercially. GT is close to become a simulator though.
Little example: Last year (summer of 2008), I was trying to determine if GT5p had proper braking physics. It turned put that it hasn't. You can turn off ABS and the wheels of the car lock up under heavy braking BUT it was still possible to steer the car, even with locked front wheels. This is not how it works IRL.
I took the Ferrari on Suzuka, drove an entire lap to get enough speed on the back straight and applied full brakes at the end before the two right hand turns. ABS was turned off, the front wheels locked up (you can hear the tires squeal) and turned the steering wheel from right to left to right to left to ...
After this test, I watched the replay and yes, sure enough, you can see that the front wheels locked up and it was still possible to steer. If PD can make a real car that can do that IRL, ABS is no more needed.
But that's not all. Low speed physics aren't correct. Weight transfer is definitely not correct.
The off track physics are still a joke in GT.
Please remember that I'm talking about all Gran Gurismos untill GT5p. I haven't tried GT5D TT because I don't have a PS3 anymore.
Other stuff that makes a game a sim:
Simulation of auto racing accurately in all it's aspects
- fuel usage, tire wear, tire pressure, punctures, grip, suspension settings, damage (structural, mechanical, electronical and electrical), tuning, etc ...
- flag rules
- Pit stops
- realistic and accurate car handling in all it's aspects (physics engine).
- accurate weight transfer
- like in iRacing, start with a less powerfull car in lower rated championships. Buy new cars and work your way up to higher championships.
- weather, day and night etc ...
- grip on the track much change due to the deposite of rubber/dirt on the asphalt. Rubber marbles on track like in GTR.
- wind, influencing the cars
- correct and realistic off track physics > sand box, grass etc ...
- a real sim should have a "steering wheel option" only, like in iRacing. It's possible to calibrate a joystick in iRacing (did it with the Attack3 form Logitec) but it's no were as accurate as a steering wheel.
- etc ...
GT started out as The Real Driving Simulator and I don't think that PD wants to change the title into The Real Racing Simulator.
Strittan
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I'm actually surprised GT5 is leading the poll. I voted for all except Forza 3 and Need for Speed Shift.
Although I really consider GT5 as a serious racing/driving sim, I think iRacing, rFactor and the SimBin titles are a far bit more serious. However, I hope and believe GT5 will take a big step from the previous games in the series when it comes to seriousness. I mean, the physics are way improved in the demo, and we will have damage and racing flags as discovered the other day. 👍
Oh, almost forgot about the NASCAR and WRC license! We also know we'll have a lot of JGTC and Super GT race cars, so definitely a racing sim in my opinion.
Although I really consider GT5 as a serious racing/driving sim, I think iRacing, rFactor and the SimBin titles are a far bit more serious. However, I hope and believe GT5 will take a big step from the previous games in the series when it comes to seriousness. I mean, the physics are way improved in the demo, and we will have damage and racing flags as discovered the other day. 👍
Oh, almost forgot about the NASCAR and WRC license! We also know we'll have a lot of JGTC and Super GT race cars, so definitely a racing sim in my opinion.
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- GTA_Racer_24
NR2003, GT5P, Iracing, rFactor, and when it comes out GT5.
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If we're going by physics, after playing GT5D, I think GT can now be called a high level sim. I actually just got done playing GTR with my DFP for the first time, and it felt like the 370 in GT5D. Surprisingly, GT5 felt better due to more FFB, but I guess I must have had something set wrong in GTR.
I would have voted Forza up a couple of weeks ago, but after playing for a while, I've come to realize that the tires are off. They have the opposite problem that GT has had, they have too much grip and are too forgiving. GT5P traction was too on/off and had a lot of odd behaviors. GT5D is good.
If we're going by simulating the experience of being a race car driver, GT is way down. I can't really say about the PC sims in this area, though I suspect that they are much higher.
I would have voted Forza up a couple of weeks ago, but after playing for a while, I've come to realize that the tires are off. They have the opposite problem that GT has had, they have too much grip and are too forgiving. GT5P traction was too on/off and had a lot of odd behaviors. GT5D is good.
If we're going by simulating the experience of being a race car driver, GT is way down. I can't really say about the PC sims in this area, though I suspect that they are much higher.
I think the main argument here is actually about the definition of "serious racing sim"
I think we can all agree that the physics in GT5 (not prologue) are getting really damn close...that being said can physics alone be enough to call a game a serious racing sim, probably not.
Like kikie said a "complete" racing simulator would need a lot more vehicles in the races and all sorts of little details and/or annoyances that come into play in actual racing. Things like mechanical problems, wind, unexpected weather, track temperature and so on.
If GT5 can get the whole physics engine including the specific car modeling right. This would allow for very accurate simulation of an incredible amount of cars, I would say that makes the game a very "serious driving sim".
I think we can all agree that the physics in GT5 (not prologue) are getting really damn close...that being said can physics alone be enough to call a game a serious racing sim, probably not.
Like kikie said a "complete" racing simulator would need a lot more vehicles in the races and all sorts of little details and/or annoyances that come into play in actual racing. Things like mechanical problems, wind, unexpected weather, track temperature and so on.
If GT5 can get the whole physics engine including the specific car modeling right. This would allow for very accurate simulation of an incredible amount of cars, I would say that makes the game a very "serious driving sim".
For me netKar PRO is the best simulator, to bad the community is so small.
If you don't know it you can check out my YouTube clips, it's quite a challenge to keep the Formula 1600 on the road
I also like some other sims in certain degrees. Like rFactor with the Historic GT & Touring Cars mod is great.
I also tried iRacing and I do like certain things about it (laser scanned tracks, regulated races with safety ratings etc.) I find it to expensive... but that's another discussion
ps. I also like Richard Burns Rally & LFS.... SIMBIN games not so much.
Oh and GT is unfortuantly not a sim.
If you don't know it you can check out my YouTube clips, it's quite a challenge to keep the Formula 1600 on the road
I also like some other sims in certain degrees. Like rFactor with the Historic GT & Touring Cars mod is great.
I also tried iRacing and I do like certain things about it (laser scanned tracks, regulated races with safety ratings etc.) I find it to expensive... but that's another discussion
ps. I also like Richard Burns Rally & LFS.... SIMBIN games not so much.
Oh and GT is unfortuantly not a sim.
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- 416
From a purely physics perspective I feel GT5D is now superior GTR2 and rfactor.
In all other areas of simulation the GT series has traditionally been extremely poor, so we'll have to wait for GT5 to see if these aspects improve.
In all other areas of simulation the GT series has traditionally been extremely poor, so we'll have to wait for GT5 to see if these aspects improve.
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