WHICH IS THE FASTEST? All cars tested over 6 tracks!

  • Thread starter -Mr.M-
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Hello everyone!

So, I've had this big project I've been working on for a long time, which I thought to finish before GT5 comes out, but I'm unable to do it myself due mostly to my lack of (driving) skills, so I need help. And this forum seemed to be the perfect place to ask.

EDIT
And now with the help from Famine the list is complete, with Famine's Trial Mountain test run times added. See attachment. Thanks again Famine!

Since there was a difference in the skill of my and Famine's b-spec drivers, the times Famine proved have been adjusted for this and marked in grey. For other color codes I've used see bottom of the list.

The list has been made with a quite old version of MS Excel so hopefully it should be compatible with most excel versions and readers. However, let me know if you have problems with the file and I'll see what I can do.
/EDIT

EDIT2 Here is the list as an image file for those unable to open excel files


ABOUT THE PROJECT

I’ve always wondered, among certain groups, which car is the fastest. in this game. For example, which R34 GT-R is the fastest, or which car is the best for certain events. So to get answers I started testing the cars. In order to get consistent results, I used the arcade mode with the b-spec driver. I let the b-spec driver to complete a number of laps and then I wrote down the best lap times.

I chose the Tsukuba circuit because of its short length and it being popular time attack track in real life. First I tested all the cars that interested me. But when that was finished, I continued to do all the cars available in arcade mode. After that was done, I thought I should have done that with the Nürburgring instead, that being my favourite track. But after a little hesitation I started doing the Ring too…

Then when that was done, I thought, what the hell, I’ll do the Motegi speedway too, because of its different nature and very short lap times. After the Ring, that shouldn’t take that long time... But when that was done, I thought there was too much emphasis for straight line speed in my list, so I thought to balance it out with the Monaco street circuit (Côte d’ Azur).

Then I realized there was quite a gap between two slow (Monaco & Tsukuba) and two fast (The Ring & Motegi speedway) track. So I thought to add a fifth track having average speeds in the middle of the four other tracks. I wanted all the tracks to be real world tracks and since I already had two Japanese tracks I wanted the last track to be non Japanese. This limited the choices to Laguna Seca and Infineon, of which I choose Laguna Seca because of its shorter lap times and the fact b-spec driver seems to drive off of track at least once every lap with fast cars in Infineon.

TL;DR:
I’ve been testing cars with b-spec in arcade mode over various tracks to see which is the fastest.


During all this time I had completed the simulation mode as much as I can and bought used cars to get as much cars as possible. And this is where the need for help comes in.


ABOUT THE NEED FOR HELP

There are still four cars I am unable to get due to lack of skills and/or time. Which are:

2001 Skyline GT-R Gran Turismo Version (Prize car for all golds in A license)
1978 Dome Zero (Prize car for all golds in IA license)
1915 Ford Model T (Prize car for all golds in S license)
1989 Sauber C9 (Prize car for Formula GT World)

If someone(s) who have these cars could fill in the blanks I could complete the list with all the cars in the game.

ABOUT THE REWARD

What else, the complete list of all the cars in the game for everyone in here once the list is complete!!!


If you are interested in helping I will give the details how I did the testing so that you can provide comparable lap times.
 

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I’ve been testing cars with b-spec in arcade mode over various tracks to see which is the fastest.


During all this time I had completed the simulation mode as much as I can and bought used cars to get as much cars as possible. And this is where the need for help comes in.

Are you ensuring the b-spec skill stays the same throughout all of your tests? Because this can/will mess up the data. The same will go for data that anyone else submits to you, they'll have different b-spec skill which means you wont be abel to use that data to compare to other cars.
 
I don't think the Gran Turismo mode b-spec skill affects Arcade mode. In any case, the b-spec skill has been pretty much the same throughout this testing, around 6900 points. At this point It grows veery slowly if at all.

I even tested, the b-spec driver gets very similar lap times now in Tsukuba (less than 0.1 seconds apart), which was the first track I did, so they should be consistent.

But of course we should compare times of my b-spec driver to anyone who will input their lap times with cars I do have to see if they are compareable.
 
I don't think the Gran Turismo mode b-spec skill affects Arcade mode. In any case, the b-spec skill has been pretty much the same throughout this testing, around 6900 points. At this point It grows veery slowly if at all.

I even tested, the b-spec driver gets very similar lap times now in Tsukuba (less than 0.1 seconds apart), which was the first track I did, so they should be consistent.

But of course we should compare times of my b-spec driver to anyone who will input their lap times with cars I do have to see if they are compareable.

It does, and this isn't the only potential hiccough I see.

Leaving aside the issue that anyone who tests for you will be using their B-Spec driver, who could have considerably different skills. What settings are you using for B-Spec Bob? On "5" he overdrives everything (mine's at 9,998 and still does it) and, while capable of pulling the best ultimate laptime, he's intensely inconsistent. He's much better on "4", but then struggles with particularly understeery car - FWD and front-biased 4WD a speciality of his. On "3" he's very consistent but slow - the fastest cars are no longer significantly faster, the margins between all the cars in the middle tend to shrink to nothingness and the cars at the bottom get massively spread out.

Next up, how many laps are you running? I've found that Bob's first two laps aren't representative of what he can do, but the third lap is generally his best - or near enough. I only allow him three clean laps. Which of course brings us to another point - something similar already exists - though I only tested at Trial Mountain, on the grounds that it's the shortest track which has everything in it.

And lastly, have you tested the SilEighty? It's only available in Arcade Mode if you go to "By Year" at the top (may be something different, but similar - it has been a while since I last looked).


What I'd suggest to help you out and eliminate "other people" as a source of error is for you to either download a gamesave with all cars in, bung it on a second memory card and buy the cars you need off it or send me your gamesave and I'll put the cars on it for you. Of course you'd need an XPort/Sharkport, a MaxDrive or a PS3 with PS1/2 memory card adapter to do either of these.
 
As I said, if anyone were interested, I was gonna deliver details to get compareable lap times.

I was running the b-spec on "3". As you said, lap times won't be the absolut fastest, but offers best consistensy.

Generally I was running at least 5 laps per track per car, thought more laps on shorter tracks (10 on Tsukuba, 15 on Motegi speedway) or if the ai had trouble staying on track even in "3" setting (Escudo, Yellow bird, etc) but only 3 laps on the Ring for obvious reasons.

I do have the times for SilEighty. But it isn't the only car not available in arcade mode when sorted by manufacturer. The other one is 2005 Ford GT (at least in PAL version), which isn't available in arcade mode at all. I have it's times from GT mode in the list, but naturally not very compareable to others.

Unfortunately I do not have means to down/upload savegames from memorycard.


Of course you can test how similar lap times you will get with your b-spec driver. I have already provided the times for 100 cars to choose from ;)
 
As I said, if anyone were interested, I was gonna deliver details to get compareable lap times.

I was running the b-spec on "3". As you said, lap times won't be the absolut fastest, but offers best consistensy.

Generally I was running at least 5 laps per track per car, thought more laps on shorter tracks (10 on Tsukuba, 15 on Motegi speedway) or if the ai had trouble staying on track even in "3" setting (Escudo, Yellow bird, etc) but only 3 laps on the Ring for obvious reasons.

Well, I can happily run the times through for you. I'll run off a couple of control times too with my own Bob too see if any error correction is required.

I do have the times for SilEighty. But it isn't the only car not available in arcade mode when sorted by manufacturer. The other one is 2005 Ford GT (at least in PAL version), which isn't available in arcade mode at all. I have it's times from GT mode in the list, but naturally not very compareable to others.

Ah, now this depends on which Ford GT you get... The non-striped version will not unlock the Arcade Mode Ford GT '05. The striped version will. Odd, but there you go.

Unfortunately I do not have means to down/upload savegames from memorycard.

Now that's a bummer. I find my memory card adapter for the PS3 to be probably the most useful peripheral in my house (but then I do run GT4 LANs).
 
Sounds great! :)

And thanks for the info on the Ford GT... I'll have it's time's corrected asap.


Edit:

Additional info for testing:

I have kept all settings unchanged: road cars have had sports-medium tires and race and rally cars racing-hard tires. I doubt it matters for b-spec but transmission has been set manual and driving aids off.
 
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Mr. M -
I think that this sounds like a very interesting and extensive study.

Even with a few caveats that others have mentioned, this could be quite useful information.

I look forward to seeing the full list.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Okay. In order to normalise for B-Spec Bob ability, could you let me have all the laptimes for the following three cars?

Nissan R89C '89
Lexus SC430 '01
Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG '04

I've picked these three as they have Bob times on Trial Mountain that are similar to three of the four cars you have remaining. The fourth - the Model T - is slow enough that I've already found a comparable car in your slowest 100 list. The idea is that I can see if there's a change in the variance as vehicle speed increases/decreases.
 
R89C:
Cote d' Azur 1:28.534
Tsukuba 49.701
Laguna Seca 1:18.717
Nürburgring 6:20.059
Motegi SSW 29.161

SC430:
Cote d' Azur 2:01.082
Tsukuba 1:08.173
Laguna Seca 1:48.850
Nürburgring 8:47.440
Motegi SSW 45.521

SL65:
Cote d' Azur 1:49.478
Tsukuba 1:02.822
Laguna Seca 1:39.860
Nürburgring 7:49.233
Motegi SSW 41.277
 
That list must have taken a helluva lot of time, Famine. Who would find the time in such a hectic and busy world, I wonder?
 
Not that I'm in a hurry, I've been doing this project for well over six months, but I was wondering, when will you Famine be able to provide the lap times you promised?
 
Sorry, I've been a bit rubbish lately with gaming. I played Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and it was so bad online I almost destroyed my entire games room in anger... We won't even mention Fallout 3.

I have generated my Bob Normalisation Factors, so I can give you both the raw times he runs and the adjusted ones when I'm done and it's your call which to use.
 
Hmm.

I've rerun with a Bob at 0 skill. Testing the R89C he ran pretty close laptimes to your ~7k Bob - in fact he was 0.006 slower at Tsukuba and identical at Cote d'Azur - but he can't get anywhere close in the road cars. He's fully 3s a lap slower in the Lexus at Cote, for example.

Edit: To put this in context, My0Bob is 8 times better driving the R89C around the 'Ring (+0.4s) than he is driving the Lexus as Cote (+3.0s) when lined up to Your6700Bob...


This has me concerned, but I will press on and hopefully be able to generate a coefficient of Bob to normalise the times.

Edit edit: Well, I've come up with something I'm happy enough with. Despite running two different sets of times for 8 different cars, I have a four-line chart, which is good enough for me. One caveat though - Bob can't run the Model T at the Nuerburgring, so that particular laptime is mine...

Sauber C9: Cote - 1'27.844; Tsukuba - 0'49.506; Laguna - 1'18.017; 'Ring - 6'14.048; Speedway - 0'28.402
Model T: Cote - 3'19.758; Tsukuba - 1'43.556; Laguna - 2'48.865; 'Ring - 16'02.739*; Speedway - 1'44.625
Dome-0: Cote - 2'00.413; Tsukuba - 1'07.351; Laguna - 1'47.800; 'Ring - 8'38.957; Speedway - 0'45.017
Skyline GT-R GT: Cote - 1'49.892; Tsukuba - 1'03.149; Laguna - 1'39.622; 'Ring - 7'50.454; Speedway - 0'41.233
 
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Thank you so much! You put more effort into this than I could have asked for! I'll post the full list when I have time to finish it some time this weekend.

I'll take it that these are the adjusted times to match my "Bob"?

I'm curious, how much error correction was needed?
 
The maximum was -2.49%. The minimum was 0. :lol:

Yes, these are adjusted to match your Bob's times for the control cars - except for one time for the Model T, which BobZero couldn't get past the Karussel on the 'Ring.
 
It was kinda painful. And those skinny tyres do not like corners.
 
Interested in doing some laps with the Daimler Motor Carriage and Benz Patent Motor Wagen on The Ring? Haha, just kidding.

But I'm afraid I do have one last favor to ask.

I need the full name of the Gran Turismo Skyline exactly as it is spelled in the game since it cannot be viewed anywhere in the game before you actually get it.

Also, I had an Idea. What would you say If I would include the times from your Trial Mountain list in my list?
 
Feel free to use my Trial Mountain times. After all, that's what they're there for!

I'll check on the name - it ought to be as it appears in my list, but I shall check anyway.
 
So let me guess this right, you have tested every single car in the game around 5 different tracks? I'll take a guess that either the Sauber C9 or the formula one car is the fastest.
 
Feel free to use my Trial Mountain times. After all, that's what they're there for!

I'll check on the name - it ought to be as it appears in my list, but I shall check anyway.
Well I'm sure you don't have spelling errors there but I was just wondering if there's something like "(R34)" after the name. If it even is a R34 skyline, I haven't ever even seen that car.

I'll add your times to the list. Though it's gonna take a little while since even though both list are supposedly sorted by the speeds of the cars, they are not exactly in the same order so I'll need to copy-paste every time individually.

But at least it proves that testing the cars on just one track doesn't tell everything and hopefully my list should offer some additional info over your list.

So let me guess this right, you have tested every single car in the game around 5 different tracks? I'll take a guess that either the Sauber C9 or the formula one car is the fastest.
Of course it was obvious the Formula GT was going to be the fastest of all the cars. But the point was to find out, for examlpe, which R34 Skyline is the fastest, or which MX-5, or which kei car, or which car suitable for 1000 miles event and so on and so on...
 
Well I'm sure you don't have spelling errors there but I was just wondering if there's something like "(R34)" after the name. If it even is a R34 skyline, I haven't ever even seen that car.

D'oh! Of course! I renamed a bunch of cars like the Skylines so that they would be sorted correctly in Excel, but retain all aspects of the name. Didn't make much sense for them to be "Skyline (R32)" in some instances and "(R32) Skyline" in others.

I've just woken up, so I'll go check when the coffee's kicked in.
 
You're not the only one who had just woken up. Just realized if I sort both of the lists alphabetically makes it far more easier to copy-paste the times...

EDIT: I just noticed your list is missing quite a few cars. Did I get an old version of your list or what gives?

EDIT2: The list is now complete, except for the cars missing from your list...
 
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The car appears as:

Nissan GRAN TURISMO SKYLINE GT-R '01

And as far as I'm aware, my list is complete for the PAL version.
 
I have also PAL version. Your list is missing following cars:

1967 Honda N360
1968 Honda S800
1992 Honda NSX Type R
1996 Honda Prelude SiR
1996 Honda Prelude Type S
1968 Mazda 110S (L10B)
2000 Mugen S2000
1963 Skyline 1500 Deluxe (S50D-1)
1998 Nissan Stagea 25t RS Four S
1999 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec (R34)
2000 Nissan Silvia Varietta (S15)

Also, while Opel and Vauxhall models are supposedly more or less identical cars (except the Calibra Touring Car which have different specs), the b-spec driver gets a bit different times for them, so I think they should be treated separately. Or at least the Calibra.
 
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