Who is the greatest of all time????

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MADDOG-99

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Hi ya all you hardcore F1 enthusiast !
Im new by the way so abig hello before we start..:D

So who in your eyes is the greatest of all time is it the past or is the present. The Senna we all loved or the schumacher of today, is he an old time great or the up and coming K.R , maybe J,B please give me your answers and also the reason why????

Is it me or is this forum abit slow:confused:
 
Damen Hill was a great racer until Renault left. Villeneave was also great. But this year, I noticed Villeneave is not racing anymore.
 
You haven't by anychance been reading AutoSport this week have you? Hahaha.

i fyou haven't one of their main articles is about this they nominated the following;

Tazio Nuvolari
Juan Mnuel Fangio
Stirling Moss
Jimmy Clark
Ayrton Senna
Micheal Schumacher

Fangio took the win on his numbers....

I haven't seen enough of the Moss/Fangio days on film to say anything about them. Nor have i seen enough from the 70s. I know the late 80s on and in my F1 time period only two names come to the top..... Senna and Schumi. No doubt those years saw other great drivers but those two naturally come to the top.

I also have enjoyed the old films I have seen of Jackie Stewart but have never seen Jim Clark drive.

So I'd have to say Schumi, just because I know his career well and how dominating he has been. I don't buy the typical anti Schumi (BTW I am no HUGE fan of Schumi) of he never had a second driver to compete....he always has the best car...blah blah blah....you race to win and MS has proven he knows how to do that in almost everyway in total domination.

If you haven't read the Autosport article pick the 03.04.04 issue up.

I think the more interesting question is who, of the current crop, in 10-20 years will we add to the list of greatest drivers?

Kimi? (amazing ability, quiet determination)
JPM? (quick hands, big mouth)
Alonso? (amazing natural skills)
Webber? (worked his way to the top)
Button? (the brits need some hope)
Klien? (the young kid who bought his way in)
Rubens? (the work horse)
Fisi? (sorta a Moss flavor for him)
 
em, greatest what? ;)

achievements, consistency? - Schumi

Most Entertaining, that kept audience breathless? - Senna (mention to Gilles Villeneuve)

Most entertaining outside the track? hmm.... Crazy Eddie, Jacques Villeneuve...

Greatest demolisher? - Sato? :D
 
Originally posted by Darin
Damen Hill was a great racer until Renault left. Villeneave was also great. But this year, I noticed Villeneave is not racing anymore.
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Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve getting mentioned in a greatest ever thread? That's a laugh. They both have 1 championship win when they were in clearly the best car. Stick them in a car that wasn't perfoming and they dissappeared.

Stick a Senna or Schumacher in a car that is not the best, and they still win.

Senna in the Lotus Renault. Senna in a Lotus Honda. Senna in a McLaren Ford. None of those cars were much cop but he still won races in them.

Schumacher in the Bennetton Ford. Schumacher in an early Ferrari. Again those cars were not the best, but he still won races in them.

For me, the greatest drivers are Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Senna & Schummi. I don't even like Schummi, but I can't deny that he's a great driver.
 
Originally posted by daan
Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve getting mentioned in a greatest ever thread? That's a laugh. They both have 1 championship win when they were in clearly the best car. Stick them in a car that wasn't perfoming and they dissappeared.

Stick a Senna or Schumacher in a car that is not the best, and they still win.

Senna in the Lotus Renault. Senna in a Lotus Honda. Senna in a McLaren Ford. None of those cars were much cop but he still won races in them.

Schumacher in the Bennetton Ford. Schumacher in an early Ferrari. Again those cars were not the best, but he still won races in them.

For me, the greatest drivers are Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Senna & Schummi. I don't even like Schummi, but I can't deny that he's a great driver.
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I'll agree with that, sorta.....Adding JV, Damon Hill and even Eddie irvine to a "greatest ever drivers in F1" is laughable.....

JV and D. Hill won becaue their cars were superior to anything on the track. Eddie, well who knows....
 
For mine, of the drivers I've seen both live and on TV, Senna. I saw his last win at Adelaide in '93 live - in an underpowered McLaren he set pole comfortably and it was never in doubt that he would win that weekend. I still remember him at Donington in '93 - I have that opening lap in the wet on VCR. He started fourth and finished the lap 14 second in front - and was fairly comprehsively sideways for a lot of that lap.

Schu is good but I still can't overcome my issues with what went on with him in pretty well all of '94, and the Villeneuve incident in '97.

Of the older drivers - man, it's hard to go past Fangio on sheer numbers and percentages - but seeing the cars from those days, gee, those guys were good - Moss, Nuvolari, Farina, Ascari from the 50's, Clark, Brabham, Stewart,so many to choose from...
 
I'll agree with that, sorta.....Adding JV, Damon Hill and even Eddie irvine to a "greatest ever drivers in F1" is laughable.....
Click to expand...

Hey... that was my point for Eddie!! :P

Schu is good but I still can't overcome my issues with what went on with him in pretty well all of '94, and the Villeneuve incident in '97.
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I'll second that for Jerez 97, that was lame... I agree that Jacques Villeneuve doesn't belong in the greatest-of-all category, but he is better than Hakkinen or Hill... Hill could only win if he was on pole and not challenged, but Villeneuve was able to keep it under control while being attacked by Schumi. If only he had not fallen in the same category as Irvine for his behavior outside the car, and made better choices, perhaps F1 would have been more entertaining for the last few years... yes he won the title with the best car, but he almost won his very first f1 race(mechanical failure), and fought for the title until the last race in his first season...

He also won the indy 500 even after he got a penality that took him two laps behind the leader. I was litteraly jumping on the couch :D
 
Jacques was a sadly wasted talent, although not 'Alesi signing for Ferrari instead of Williams' level of waste

I saw his debut GP at Albert Park in '96, and he was the man there - if it wasn't for that oil leak he'd have won easily. Going to BAR was such a mistake - he had the potential to win three world titles, easily.
 
I cannot see how one can compares era's. Fangio and Moss were burning around the track at 180mph usually without wearing a seatbelt, and with cars more rudimentary then todays road cars, technology wise.

Could the likes of Senna and Schumi have competed back in that era, with those cars? Could Moss and Fangio have been successful with todays precise and unforgiving machines?

Who can tell. For the modern era Senna and Schumi get my vote. I dont know enough of the early days to pass comment of them.

Hill and JV as best drivers? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Mike Rotch
I cannot see how one can compares era's. Fangio and Moss were burning around the track at 180mph usually without wearing a seatbelt, and with cars more rudimentary then todays road cars, technology wise.

Could the likes of Senna and Schumi have competed back in that era, with those cars? Could Moss and Fangio have been successful with todays precise and unforgiving machines?

Who can tell. For the modern era Senna and Schumi get my vote. I dont know enough of the early days to pass comment of them.

Hill and JV as best drivers? :rolleyes:
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This is the heart of the issue. Personally, I tend to view these things in terms of "the driver I most would have liked to have seen live".

In which case, I would have to say that the list of drivers I have not seen but regret not having seen is:

Fangio
Ascari
Nuvolari
Stuck
G. Villeneuve
Moss
Clark

Also (as a wildcard) I would have liked to have seen the Mansell vs Piquet Silverstone race (1986?) and the Mansell v Senna Monaco race (1988?).

Of the drivers that I have seen over the last 5 years, Michael Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya are the most amazing to watch. I saw Senna, but only in practice, so it didn't really count.

So, of those, how can you really say who was best?

You know, for example, that any of the pre-1980 drivers would be all at sea with the telemetry. I very much doubt that they could run a 15 lap stint with the time variance being less than 0.2s per lap. But then the current guys are a bit wet, and would probably baulk at being sideways at 150mph 10 feet from the nearest tree trunk.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Also (as a wildcard) I would have liked to have seen the Mansell vs Piquet Silverstone race (1986?)
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Yeah, that was a fantastic dummy. :D Not Mansell, but the move he made to get past Piquet.
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
and the Mansell v Senna Monaco race (1988?).
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Senna was walking it in 1988 until he hit the barrier at Portier to let Prost through to take the win. Do you mean 1992, when Mansell made a late race pitstop and he was crawling all over Senna for the last 3 laps but couldn't get past?
 
I'd put a short list of Jackie Stewart, Allain Prost, Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher :) ( Mansell and Hill where great to watch and support.... but they were not in the same league as the other guys) .

If I had to pick 1 though! .... it would be Schumacher ;) as he has entertained me more than any of the others being just that bit more skilled ( and also the fact that my dad hates Schumacher and puts a bet on with me every season that he will lose this time around :lol: .... thanks for all them £20 notes dad :P)

Schumacher does not get the respect he deserves IMO .... but he does from me 👍 a true Legend for future generations to look back at :cool: .... and they will.

Such a shame that a lot of drivers dont get the respect until they die or leave the sport :irked:
 
Originally posted by daan
Do you mean 1992, when Mansell made a late race pitstop and he was crawling all over Senna for the last 3 laps but couldn't get past?
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Yes. :)

Mr P: We're definitely looking at a genius at work whenever Schumacher is out there. I think that there remain elements to his driving that are distasteful, but it does seem now that Raikkonen and Montoya are made of sufficiently stern stuff that they'll stand up to his antics. If their cars can get close enough to him, that is.
 
sir jack brabham is the greatest...........no one else has ever won a championship with a car of his construction, bearing his name. thats a record that never will be broken
 
Originally posted by BMW Freak
I can't believe í've not seen the name Ayrton Senna, he's the best ever
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Did you read the thread?

Scuderia, jpmontoya, me, vat_man, Mike Rotch and Mr P all mention him.
 
Hmph, I'd have to say its a toss up inbetween Shumie and Ayrton for the top spot. :D course I pick Ayrton for #1 but its a close between the two. Prost would be in 3rd. I really cant comment on anyone from 89ish and below since I was only 5 back then.
 
Ive really enjoyed reading your replys:D

My favourite driver will always be Senna, simply because he is the only driver to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up!!
Schumacher is pure class and consistant and very fast, yet i dont think we have to wait long before K.R or Alonso shows us what there made of.
 
Originally posted by jpmontoya
Greatest demolisher? - Sato? :D
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No way, Andrea de Cesaris is a lock for that title. He's also started the largest number of races without ever winning one.

Greatest free agent:
Chris Amon drove for 13 teams, and won championship races with none of them. Eddie Cheever was a perpetual #2 with different 11 teams.

Greatest case of "we pay you to drive, not think":
Bertrand Gachot was kicked off the Rial team in '89 for stating the car was crappy to the press. Strike One. In 1991, he lost a great seat at Jordan by spraying mace at a cabbie in London. He was called (gasp) a Frenchman, not the true-blue Belgian-Luxembourg-born driver that he is. Result: 3 months in jail...and he lost his drive to some rookie named Michael Schumacher. Strike Two. His last stint in F1 was with the Pacific team, in which he was a part-owner. But he took off the driving gloves for good in F1 to make way for a pay-driver, as the team was sinking deep into debt.

Greatest "non-starter":
Hans Heyer was determined to race in the '77 German GP, despite being a "first-alternate" by virtue of a 27th-best qualiying time. But he started from pit lane anyways, and was black flagged after a couple of laps. It was his one and only F1 start...or was it?
 

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schumacher is defently one of the greatest but for me he will never be the greatest because he has never had any sharp opistion to race againest.
 
The greatest drivers of all time according to me;
- Michael Schumacher
- Mark Webber
- Fernando Alonso
And hopefully Scott Dixon *crosses fingers*
 

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