Who wants to be a Tuning Competition Judge? *Week 17 is Ford Falcon @ Nurburgring*

[Dark Elite]

No.

I'll second that opinion on the car and circuit, though, it looks to be a great week. But two weeks from now, anything could have happened, so I'm going to have to give it a miss. I think now, I will go on my aforementioned 'intentional break' - I'd have liked to judge ten weeks before I did, and I'm sorry for dropping out of Week 11 but there is simply no way I could find the time. I'll still be poking my head in every now and then

DE

 

[Der Meister]

I'll judge this week for sure - I really cant be stuffed with the Minolta.

Put me down Duck-man! 👍

 

[DuckRacer]

I'll judge this week for sure - I really cant be stuffed with the Minolta.

Put me down Duck-man! 👍

Well, since you're banned (you naughty boy you), it's not like you can PM me your ratings when you're finished...

So, when you see me on, IM me, and we'll discuss details.

 

[DuckRacer]

Week 13 judge positions are available. If you can judge, please do so. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[DuckRacer]

...Anyone?

 

[gregc]

Been away for the weekend, plus I wanted to see if anyone else would volunteer - count me in

 

[DuckRacer]

Been away for the weekend, plus I wanted to see if anyone else would volunteer - count me in

Ok, thanks.

I also PMed Duke to see if I could move this thread to the main GT4, so hopefully we'll be able to get more judges on board.

 

[DuckRacer]

Ok, Duke said it's fine, so it's moved.

Also, just an FYI to anyone who's interested in judging, the Week 13 combo is the Hyundai Tiburon (or Hyundai Coupe FX) at Grand Valley.

 

[Fat Boy Drifter]

I'd like to be a judge if ya'll need me.

 

[Dark Elite]

Just popping in to say, I hope the move to the General GT4 Forum helps us get the interest we need in judging this competition! Good luck, Duck 👍

DE

 

[DuckRacer]

I'd like to be a judge if ya'll need me.

Oh, definitely. 👍 👍

 

[lmracer]

need a judge? im game.

you should add a skid pad test to the agenda. we can go to gymkania, or whatever (the open lot with cones) and see how many G's a vehicle pulls without breaking traction.

it could be recorded in a simple keyboard symbol like this:

0----------.5-------*-1----------1.5

eqauls about .85 lateral Gs

 

[Dark Elite]

That's an idea, lmracer, but my response is that it gives tuners one more thing to think about, and a lot of the cars use traction control. I don't think they should, but this would give a massive incentive for doing so. Besides, such a thing is not really relevant for the circuit driving the setups are made for - if you can't feel a mid-corner traction problem when driving on a track, then it isn't a problem

Hope you see what I mean, just adding my opinion.
*looks over to Duck*

DE

 

[lmracer]

That's an idea, lmracer, but my response is that it gives tuners one more thing to think about, and a lot of the cars use traction control. I don't think they should, but this would give a massive incentive for doing so. Besides, such a thing is not really relevant for the circuit driving the setups are made for - if you can't feel a mid-corner traction problem when driving on a track, then it isn't a problem

Hope you see what I mean, just adding my opinion.
*looks over to Duck*

DE

this is a tune testing thread. skid pad figures are entirely relevent. tuners should very well be concidering this. mid-corner traction is a direct result of corner entry technique. im guessing some of the testers here dont even know how to properly critique cirtain test areas. though, on second thought, its probably best to keep this activity trivial due to the circumstances of the randomly chosen board of trustees. oh well. need a tester?

traction control should never be used

 

[sucahyo]

how do we measure G? by eyes or maybe datalogger?
If we do it by eye, I don't think we can accurately measure the difference between each setting.

about traction control should never be used, I don't agree. For DS2 user, traction control really help tuning better. You don't have to compensate with low speed corner understeer caused by car that try to spin you out. If the judge decide to turn traction control off and using wheel not DS2, it would feel as different car, usually in a bad way.

If traction control is forbidden then:
-all competitor must use digital controller for acceleration
-all judge must also use digital controller for acceleration
-the car should not have impossible to cure wheel spin problem
-optionally each competitor should have knowledge on how to reduce wheel spin

It would be unfair if this competition only favor to the one who has wheel. But are there any good reason to forbid traction control anyway? It make the car slower if we use it anyway. It's a trade off between low speed corner control vs overall acceleration.

 

[Dark Elite]

this is a tune testing thread. skid pad figures are entirely relevent. tuners should very well be concidering this. mid-corner traction is a direct result of corner entry technique. im guessing some of the testers here dont even know how to properly critique cirtain test areas.

I hope you are not referring to me with that last quoted sentence. Skid pad figures are not, for the criteria this competition is looking at, relevant. I am well aware of what affects the traction levels of a car, which is why I tested every possible corner entry line when I was judging, and if no problems were encountered (or indeed if there was a problem), there is my points score modifier for stability, grip and mid-corner behaviour. A skid pan result really makes no difference.

I rarely argue with Sucahyo, who has made some good points against banning traction control, but I personally dislike it and often find it numbs mid-corner response far more than actually helping acceleration. In fact, the fastest Gillet Vertigo on test had no traction control (I use a DS2, as you know, and never have trouble with throttle control ). But yes, I accept that banning traction control does place the points score of a car slightly into the realms of relying on the judges' driving.

DE

 

[sucahyo]

I see......never realize that traction control can do damage that bad, never manage to do throttle control, the best way I can manage is two step of acceleration using analog button . I guess more skill means more sensitive to TCS side effect. Still a long way to go for me then...........

Well, I guess TCS would benefit driver who can't do throttle control yet like ...uh ..., me. And will only do bad thing for driver who can do throttle control.

This means I should really do some consideration if I want to use TCS or not in this competition. Maybe using TCS:1 while tuning and hope it will be ok when judged with TCS:0 .

Thanks for the info DE 👍. I never have time to test TCS properly.

Since this is not driving competition, I think TCS should not be banned, since all it does is more like helping the driver, not to improve the car handling.

 

[DuckRacer]

need a judge? im game.

you should add a skid pad test to the agenda. we can go to gymkania, or whatever (the open lot with cones) and see how many G's a vehicle pulls without breaking traction.

it could be recorded in a simple keyboard symbol like this:

0----------.5-------*-1----------1.5

eqauls about .85 lateral Gs

I'd be happy to have you as a judge. Week 14 is the Holden Monaro at Tokyo R246, so let me know if you want to judge.

That's an idea, lmracer, but my response is that it gives tuners one more thing to think about, and a lot of the cars use traction control. I don't think they should, but this would give a massive incentive for doing so. Besides, such a thing is not really relevant for the circuit driving the setups are made for - if you can't feel a mid-corner traction problem when driving on a track, then it isn't a problem

Hope you see what I mean, just adding my opinion.
*looks over to Duck*

DE

Well, I suppose measuring Gs would be relevent, but it's a load of more work for the judges to do and another thing tuners would worry about when they really shouldn't worry about it. So no for now.

 

[lmracer]

I hope you are not referring to me with that last quoted sentence. Skid pad figures are not, for the criteria this competition is looking at, relevant. I am well aware of what affects the traction levels of a car, which is why I tested every possible corner entry line when I was judging, and if no problems were encountered (or indeed if there was a problem), there is my points score modifier for stability, grip and mid-corner behaviour. A skid pan result really makes no difference.

I rarely argue with Sucahyo, who has made some good points against banning traction control, but I personally dislike it and often find it numbs mid-corner response far more than actually helping acceleration. In fact, the fastest Gillet Vertigo on test had no traction control (I use a DS2, as you know, and never have trouble with throttle control ). But yes, I accept that banning traction control does place the points score of a car slightly into the realms of relying on the judges' driving.

DE

no, not referring to you. just making assumtions due to the fact that anyone can be a tester. the nature was relevet only to my earlier concept of this thread, but upon revision becomes scuff.

 

[Dark Elite]

Well, I suppose measuring Gs would be relevent, but it's a load of more work for the judges to do and another thing tuners would worry about when they really shouldn't worry about it. So no for now.

Perhaps, rather than doing a seperate skid-pan test, judges could turn the G-meter back on and keep an eye on it while doing the track tests. This way, we get a lateral G reading without any extra work. I don't see it as a very useful figure, but if it's wanted in the future I think that could be a better way to do it

no, not referring to you. just making assumtions due to the fact that anyone can be a tester. the nature was relevet only to my earlier concept of this thread, but upon revision becomes scuff.

In this case, no harm done 👍

DE

 

[inferno]

i think an arbitrairy lateral G rating, collected during track testing, would be a good thing as it reflects the actual performance limits of the setup in addition to the "seat of the pants" impression of the handling dynamics of the setup. limit grip is just as important as handling if not more, really.

[EDIT]
so how are the timeframes split for tuning and testing? how far into the week will the judges actualy get setups to test? end of the week? two days for testing, one day? Depending, i'm interested if you still need more judges.

 

[gregc]

[EDIT]
so how are the timeframes split for tuning and testing? how far into the week will the judges actualy get setups to test? end of the week? two days for testing, one day? Depending, i'm interested if you still need more judges.

The tuners get a week to set up their cars, once the competition thread is closed the judges have a full week to test the setups and submit their results.

If you're still interested in judging then please shout - I'm going to have to duck out (no pun intended Duck!) this week, so I'm sure a new face would be appreciated 👍

 

[DuckRacer]

If you're still interested in judging then please shout - I'm going to have to duck out (no pun intended Duck!) this week, so I'm sure a new face would be appreciated 👍

Definitely. Judges, new and old (*cough* Dark Elite *cough*) are greatly appreciated. 👍

 

[inferno]

Sounds good then. I'm in.

 

[Dark Elite]

A very subtle hint there Duck but I have a German exchange partner here at the moment, so I can't judge this week. And as it happens, I'm still on my month's leave from judging

Perhaps I'll be involved after Week 14, though

DE

 

[DuckRacer]

Sounds good then. I'm in.

Ok, cool.

 

[gold_ultima]

Are there tuning limitations to the cars? Like tires, or anything?

 

[DuckRacer]

Are there tuning limitations to the cars? Like tires, or anything?

Well, for normal cars, you must use S3 tires, and you have to use a decent amount of tuning parts. But other than that, you can do whatever you like.

 

[GT40 MKII]

count me in the monaro is a fun car

 

[Metar]

Any spots left for a Judge? I'm no good at tuning, so this might help me a bit...