Why can't the AI stop crashing into you?
- Thread starter tecknical
- 59 comments
- 6,941 views
- 2,393
- FLX81
I experience those attacks as in sandboxgods video a lot. Worst was in GT1 at Road America after Turn 1, I got hunted down like that by an AI car several times, even if I was clearly in front of him, he knocked into my rear at least 5-10 times. And to do that he deliberately left the racing line! 
When I wasnt rammed off like that, I got hit by AI cars spinning out, rammed from behind, sucked off from the outside of course... Took me ages to survive the first 2 corners in that race.
The overagressive AI wouldnt be such a problem, its the combination with the straight up wack collision system thats making it so frustrating.
When I wasnt rammed off like that, I got hit by AI cars spinning out, rammed from behind, sucked off from the outside of course... Took me ages to survive the first 2 corners in that race.
The overagressive AI wouldnt be such a problem, its the combination with the straight up wack collision system thats making it so frustrating.
- 2,393
- FLX81
One other thing I noticed that makes it incredibly hard to deal with the AI is their braking. Sometimes they need a mile to break in time, then you can easily pass them. Other times, often in the same curves, they stop almost instantly. I did the Nordschleife Enduro daytime today, took me at least 30 tries - 10 or so of them I had to restart cause I hit an AI opponent that suddenly threw an anchor out the rear window.
Also they weave over the track a lot more than they d really need to.
Also they weave over the track a lot more than they d really need to.
- 265
Oh, I'm glad you noticed that too. 
I try to play fair with them, but as you say, they have a habit of almost stopping dead in front of you on some of the tighter bends, so sometimes end up being bulldozed out of the way.
Here is a good example...first bend (sorry Mr.AI !).
On this one I have my own (not very good) settings:
.
I try to play fair with them, but as you say, they have a habit of almost stopping dead in front of you on some of the tighter bends, so sometimes end up being bulldozed out of the way.
Here is a good example...first bend (sorry Mr.AI !
).On this one I have my own (not very good) settings:
.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
FLX1981
I think the reason the brake zones change is because of the adaptive AI system in place.
Quite good really it keeps you on your toes.
Magnetic physics do ruin the experience a lot though, makes rubbing impossible.
- 1,019
- Germantown WI
- FuzzyFassbender
- FuzzyFassbender
Is the "magnetic" physics as you call them an Xbox thing? I don't feel that on the PS3.
- 3,492
- New York
For haha's, in Quick Mode I decided to park on the side of a straightaway. I just park on the side away from the best line.
I then look behind me and 3-5 AI's pass, but then the 6th one suddenly swerves to go at me and slams into my rear. Then, while I'm reversing along the wall, the 7th AI does the same thing.
Really?
I then look behind me and 3-5 AI's pass, but then the 6th one suddenly swerves to go at me and slams into my rear. Then, while I'm reversing along the wall, the 7th AI does the same thing.
Really?
- 3,024
- Top Valley, NG5
- 265
I haven't found it a problem on Xbox either. With a bit of quick steering action you can normally 'fight' your way clear of such entanglements with AI.
Getting away from walls and barriers can be a bit tougher though.
- 2,393
- FLX81
On PS3 the magnetic collisions are still a major pain in the rear. Once you stick together with an AI car, there is no quick steering to help you, its like a timer counts down the seconds 3-2-1 until you get released again.
Also, another incredibly bad thing: Once you stick together with another car, your brake distance is at least 3 times longer. So very often you not only stick to another car that hit you, but you also slide off track together because you couldnt brake in time for the curve.
What a shame that this great game is straight up ruined by all this crap and the horrible amount of bugs. I m only still playing career mode to get the last 2 trophies. After that, I will never touch it again.
Also, another incredibly bad thing: Once you stick together with another car, your brake distance is at least 3 times longer. So very often you not only stick to another car that hit you, but you also slide off track together because you couldnt brake in time for the curve.
What a shame that this great game is straight up ruined by all this crap and the horrible amount of bugs. I m only still playing career mode to get the last 2 trophies. After that, I will never touch it again.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
FuzzyFassbender
Perhaps it's is only Xbox.
Could others confirm it is not present on PS3?
- 1,449
- San Antonio Tex
- Vaxxtx
- Vaxxtx
Sometimes I feel I playing a different game than others. I dont have any issues with AI, or the magnetic effect. If you scrape against a wall where its hard to turn out (epecially on a curve) it can be hard to get out due to not being able to turn, and I can see what would feel like a magnet.
Some of those videos are almost funny with the AI looking like the hit people on purpose. The only time I have seen AI act really odd is in multiplayer.
Some of those videos are almost funny with the AI looking like the hit people on purpose. The only time I have seen AI act really odd is in multiplayer.
- 1,787
- RomKnight
Between some online Humans and odd AI I take AI anytime...
Anyway, about AI, people tend to forget that driver profile it's still in the game, just not shown. So if you have been aggressive from the beginning chances are you'll need a lot of races driving clean to get AI back to fair.
But AI has several profiles also so there are some "drivers" that always will push a bit further.
I completely agree with the OP as well as a few others here. I don't understand what the deal is with SMS and their "over aggressive" approach with the AI vehicles. This problem is in both Shift-1 and S2U. The AI in Shift-1 however is far more aggressive than you find in S2U.
Still.., the same problem has been carried over with the latest version. To those of you who cannot pick out "rubber-banding" AI.., well I don't know what else to say on that matter. The AI in S2U "does" rubber-band. It's the combination of rubber-banding and adaptive AI that messes things up. S2U is an excellent example IMO of what all can go wrong with the AI when you combine these two elements, and then do it poorly.
With the original Shift it was easier IMO to deal with the AI. First rule of thumb with the original Shift was simple. BACK OFF AT THE FIRST TURN. The first turn on nearly every race often turned out to be one big cluster-****. If you backed off on the first turn and let the AI beat the snot out of each other.., well it was fairly easy sailing from that point..., but still challenging.
S2U's AI is certainly over aggressive. They WILL come right off the driving line to ram your ass into a wall or off the track. I keep seeing people post that it's almost always YOUR fault.., and that's complete bulls***. I can't count the number of replays that I've watched where the AI was at fault and "intentionally" slammed into me. I have no problem going back and accepting the incidents that were my fault (as there were some).., but 99% of the problem was the AI being stupid, and just down right over aggressive.
The problem is that RULES do not apply here as they should. Many of the childish bullsh** tactics by the AI would result in REAL LIFE PENALTIES. So much of the nonsense portrayed by the AI will get drivers disqualified. There's nothing wrong with "rubbing".., as any racing fan will tell you "that's part of racing".., but there is a very fine line between rubbing and flat out rule breaking.
Another problem I've noticed is that the AI "do not" in many cases give YOU space. You so often see people post that YOU were crowding the AI, and that's why there was contact. In some cases that's true.., BUT the AI is probably the BIGGEST offender on that issue alone.
You can be coming cleanly into a turn, or even down a straight and an AI car will plow right through you on the inside of a turn making contact unavoidable. They'll come off the driving line to brake check you, ram you, ect. The AI doesn't properly yield to YOUR position at times. You're expected to not crowd the AI and race cleanly.., but the AI sure as hell doesn't stick to this format.
I also see one of the same problems with S2U that was in the original Shift. At times you don't feel like you're racing. Rather it appears that the AI car's aren't in it to win the race.., but to use dirty tactics to keep YOU from winning. Just like Shift-1.., the AI in S2U will appear to "gang up" on you. It's very childish and FAR from realism.
There's also the issue of "determining fault". It appears that the system in S2U for determining "fault during contact" is just as flawed as the original. Often it seems that it just sees contact as just that. Even if the contact was the fault of the AI.., the system seems to just read it as general contact and the blame goes to you. I've have many races where the AI clearly made contact with me.., but then the AI just responded as if I was the one who made the contact.
Probably one of the most unacceptable problems present in S2U is "magnetic cars". I am shocked that ANY developer or publisher would allow this type of glitch to go unpatched. Having to deal with sloppy steering lag and over aggressive AI is hard enough during a race.., but races constantly getting destroyed because cars become "stuck together" (even from the lightest rub) is just disgraceful. That alone is a game-breaker.
I've gone back to playing Shift-1. Sure the graphics aren't as pretty, and there is no night racing. Yeah.., the AI is aggressive.., but Shift-1 is WAY more of a finished game than S2U. They had such a good foundation started with the original Shift as well. All they had to do was tighten up the physics engine, add a few tracks, ect. Instead they try and rebuild the game from the ground up in 2 years. It IMO was a huge mistake to introduce a new (non consumer tested) physics engine into S2U. Shift 1 was so close.., but with S2U.., it seems that every step forwarded resulted in a step backwards. It's very disturbing to see that EA pulled the plug so soon on this title. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
**On a side note.., just to show that I'm not a hater on this title. I've clearly shown my support for the Shift series. I own Shift 1 on the Xbox and PS3. I own S2U on the Xbox and PS3.., and I even have the original Shift game on my iPod. Not to mention all the DLC I've purchased too. I've invested HUNDREDS of dollars into this series. I feel completely let down by both SMS and EA.**
Still.., the same problem has been carried over with the latest version. To those of you who cannot pick out "rubber-banding" AI.., well I don't know what else to say on that matter. The AI in S2U "does" rubber-band. It's the combination of rubber-banding and adaptive AI that messes things up. S2U is an excellent example IMO of what all can go wrong with the AI when you combine these two elements, and then do it poorly.
With the original Shift it was easier IMO to deal with the AI. First rule of thumb with the original Shift was simple. BACK OFF AT THE FIRST TURN. The first turn on nearly every race often turned out to be one big cluster-****. If you backed off on the first turn and let the AI beat the snot out of each other.., well it was fairly easy sailing from that point..., but still challenging.
S2U's AI is certainly over aggressive. They WILL come right off the driving line to ram your ass into a wall or off the track. I keep seeing people post that it's almost always YOUR fault.., and that's complete bulls***. I can't count the number of replays that I've watched where the AI was at fault and "intentionally" slammed into me. I have no problem going back and accepting the incidents that were my fault (as there were some).., but 99% of the problem was the AI being stupid, and just down right over aggressive.
The problem is that RULES do not apply here as they should. Many of the childish bullsh** tactics by the AI would result in REAL LIFE PENALTIES. So much of the nonsense portrayed by the AI will get drivers disqualified. There's nothing wrong with "rubbing".., as any racing fan will tell you "that's part of racing".., but there is a very fine line between rubbing and flat out rule breaking.
Another problem I've noticed is that the AI "do not" in many cases give YOU space. You so often see people post that YOU were crowding the AI, and that's why there was contact. In some cases that's true.., BUT the AI is probably the BIGGEST offender on that issue alone.
You can be coming cleanly into a turn, or even down a straight and an AI car will plow right through you on the inside of a turn making contact unavoidable. They'll come off the driving line to brake check you, ram you, ect. The AI doesn't properly yield to YOUR position at times. You're expected to not crowd the AI and race cleanly.., but the AI sure as hell doesn't stick to this format.
I also see one of the same problems with S2U that was in the original Shift. At times you don't feel like you're racing. Rather it appears that the AI car's aren't in it to win the race.., but to use dirty tactics to keep YOU from winning. Just like Shift-1.., the AI in S2U will appear to "gang up" on you. It's very childish and FAR from realism.
There's also the issue of "determining fault". It appears that the system in S2U for determining "fault during contact" is just as flawed as the original. Often it seems that it just sees contact as just that. Even if the contact was the fault of the AI.., the system seems to just read it as general contact and the blame goes to you. I've have many races where the AI clearly made contact with me.., but then the AI just responded as if I was the one who made the contact.
Probably one of the most unacceptable problems present in S2U is "magnetic cars". I am shocked that ANY developer or publisher would allow this type of glitch to go unpatched. Having to deal with sloppy steering lag and over aggressive AI is hard enough during a race.., but races constantly getting destroyed because cars become "stuck together" (even from the lightest rub) is just disgraceful. That alone is a game-breaker.
I've gone back to playing Shift-1. Sure the graphics aren't as pretty, and there is no night racing. Yeah.., the AI is aggressive.., but Shift-1 is WAY more of a finished game than S2U. They had such a good foundation started with the original Shift as well. All they had to do was tighten up the physics engine, add a few tracks, ect. Instead they try and rebuild the game from the ground up in 2 years. It IMO was a huge mistake to introduce a new (non consumer tested) physics engine into S2U. Shift 1 was so close.., but with S2U.., it seems that every step forwarded resulted in a step backwards. It's very disturbing to see that EA pulled the plug so soon on this title. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
**On a side note.., just to show that I'm not a hater on this title. I've clearly shown my support for the Shift series. I own Shift 1 on the Xbox and PS3. I own S2U on the Xbox and PS3.., and I even have the original Shift game on my iPod. Not to mention all the DLC I've purchased too. I've invested HUNDREDS of dollars into this series. I feel completely let down by both SMS and EA.**
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- 1,961
- Texas
- sandboxgod
^^ Yeah I own the PC version of Shift 2 and I have always had issues with magentism. Ah here is a link to this same topic at nogrip and being on PC, we have access to content still locked on consoles (like DLC 3 with the roadsters) so I think it's unlikely the consoles would escape this issue (I say this in response to claims that S2U Xbox doesn't have the magnetic physics from other posters)
- 265
Seems like most of the posters on that link know how to deal with the AI without having to resort to interfering with the game code. 
What is the point of changing the game to make up for the player's weaknesses anyway ?
Maybe they shouldn't have night racing because 7-year old players haven't actually driven a car at night.
I don't normally steer my (real) car with my thumb, so that's why I use a wheel not a gamepad, but I don't really have a problem with the AI worth upping my blood pressure over.
What is the point of changing the game to make up for the player's weaknesses anyway ?
Maybe they shouldn't have night racing because 7-year old players haven't actually driven a car at night.
I don't normally steer my (real) car with my thumb, so that's why I use a wheel not a gamepad, but I don't really have a problem with the AI worth upping my blood pressure over.
- 1,961
- Texas
- sandboxgod
Well of course most have figured out how to get around it. For online they use mods to disable collisions altogether. For offline, well I just hot-lap mostly to improve my autolog. No reason to grind through campaign on PC since cash & cars can be granted instantly through mods, etc
- 1,961
- Texas
- sandboxgod
You tried playing this game online? If you did, then you would realize how awful it can be 
Personally I never play this game online... You'll get wrecked by randoms
Personally I never play this game online... You'll get wrecked by randoms
- 265
You tried playing this game online? If you did, then you would realize how awful it can be
Personally I never play this game online... You'll get wrecked by randoms
Yes, I played a couple of hundred games online (Shift2), could hold my own, but got tired of the demolition derby stuff...plus the foul language and offensive messages.
- 265
Yes I know, but I did actually make some good 'friends' on there too, so it was good to chat to them and have that banter throughout the races.
Shame it can't be moderated like a forum.
I know there are organised events, but I'm not sufficiently confident of my ability yet, and I find it impossible to steer the car (MS wheel) if steering assist is removed as happens with elite type mode, though I can happily manage without all other aids.
- 1,961
- Texas
- sandboxgod
Yeah I don't know of a solid Shift 2 PC online community. I should've clarified my complaints was bout randoms which is clearly not the ideal way to play online anyway. Wish the shift 2 PS3 version supported my wheel (t500rs) then I'd play with gtp.
Gonna fire up shift 2 again tonight and give the AI another chance. My racing skills has improved a little since I've last tried and I still didnt try the single player DLC content
[edit] I popped in S2U and did some quick races with AI. I found it very enjoyable. I cwas only 'magnetized' once which is not bad, etc. I did get wrecked once or twice by them however after watching replays it was just tough to guess whether or not they were at fault. I was the leader and an AI took out my rear end. maybe I was driving too slow? Maybe I cut into his line? I dunno. overall, I still find them fun actually and I am puzzled why some would trade in the game (but maybe ps3 version is broken or something)
Gonna fire up shift 2 again tonight and give the AI another chance. My racing skills has improved a little since I've last tried and I still didnt try the single player DLC content
[edit] I popped in S2U and did some quick races with AI. I found it very enjoyable. I cwas only 'magnetized' once which is not bad, etc. I did get wrecked once or twice by them however after watching replays it was just tough to guess whether or not they were at fault. I was the leader and an AI took out my rear end. maybe I was driving too slow? Maybe I cut into his line? I dunno. overall, I still find them fun actually and I am puzzled why some would trade in the game (but maybe ps3 version is broken or something)
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- 1,787
- RomKnight
