Why is the Veyron undriveable?

[fernanjos]

The truth of the matter is the Veyron in real life isn't uncontrolable at high speed, nor are the other cars affected by this behaviour in GT7. It's a bug in the game and only affects the car with stock suspension. As soon as you upgrade the suspension the issue is gone. It has nothing to do with the cars aerodynamics, it could be due to the car bottoming out on it's stock suspension in the game or some other anomoly.

I just bought the Chiron (for the ticket) and drove it stock and with upgrades to compare. With upgrades, the car is impossible to drive in the turns because it doesn't stay straight like the stock suspension.

I tried to drive the Raptor I have with 800 hp in Daytona (set up before the last 2 updates of the game) and it's impossible because the car doesn't want to take the turns. Every time they update the game they screw up something.

 

[fernanjos]

Just giving some background on the car, information only. Not a criticism.

There are many cars in the game that the physics aren't quite right.

I don't take it as criticism, sorry it sounds like that.

I totally agree with you, the physics aren't quite right and every time they update the game they screw up something.

 

[SimonsLFA]

You should try the last license mission of GT6, the 1 lap Veyron in Ascari, it's basically driving a boat in corridors

 

[RacingFan1]

Try the mission. I did this not long ago with a wheel and experienced the same thing. I managed to pass the mission but only using driving aids.

Just tried it, no difference. The car only becomes unstable when doing sudden turns left or right if you slalom to overtake cars, but that's normal in road cars at very high speed... But if you drive in straightline? No problem at all

How can it be an issue with the controller when changing the suspension in the game fixes it? That just doesn't make sense.

Besides, we know it isn't an issue with using a controller and it is an issue with the physics of how some cars behave at high speeds with stock suspensions.

I think the cars are bottoming out when they shouldn't (i.e. in a straight line on a flat surface) but that's yet to be conclusively proven.

Issue with controller + stock suspesion combo then

 

[Dave A]

Issue with controller + stock suspesion combo then

Or not an issue with controllers at all, it's clearly an issue with the physics when using the stock suspension.

 

[fernanjos]

Just tried it, no difference. The car only becomes unstable when doing sudden turns left or right if you slalom to overtake cars, but that's normal in road cars at very high speed... But if you drive in straightline? No problem at all

Issue with controller + stock suspesion combo then

Car is undrivable with stock suspension or with upgrade suspension. I have a C7 Corvette ZR1 with 1000+ hp and I do slalom to overtake cars without any problem. This car is not stable at high speed in a straight line. It becomes a problem when every person commenting says there is and you're alone defending the opposite.

I use a controller (small NY apartment, no room for a steering wheel) and as I said I have a problem with stock suspension and upgraded suspension, I guess I'm the problem and I don't know how to drive.

 

[RacingFan1]

Car is undrivable with stock suspension or with upgrade suspension. I have a C7 Corvette ZR1 with 1000+ hp and I do slalom to overtake cars without any problem. This car is not stable at high speed in a straight line. It becomes a problem when every person commenting says there is and you're alone defending the opposite.

I use a controller (small NY apartment, no room for a steering wheel) and as I said I have a problem with stock suspension and upgraded suspension, I guess I'm the problem and I don't know how to drive.

Just a small bunch of people have commented here. If I say that with wheel there is no problem, it's because there isn't.
Car in straightline is stable at any speed, it only becomes unstable when doing slalom and agressively turning left/right.

 

[MarionJ13]

Just a small bunch of people have commented here. If I say that with wheel there is no problem, it's because there isn't.
Car in straightline is stable at every speed, it only becomes unstable when doing slalom and agressively turning left/right.

There you go everyone, he said so. Threads closed.

 

[Tommy_D]

I'm trying to figure out what the problem is. So the car is unstable at high speeds. Drive a different car. There are 450 others in the game.

 

[Grayfox]

Why is this car so unstable at high speeds? Anything over 300 kph and it starts sliding like it's on ice, even with RS tyres. The Veyron mission at Le Mans was almost impossible for me. The car just starts veering left and right, and sliding around. It's crazy. Surely someone else has the same issue?

The Veyron and its other chest beating counterparts.
Reduce drag when going at high speeds.
Its like an Automatic DRS.
Video shows its active aero in play.

 

[MoLiEG]

I wish I could have something to say about this... but I don't have a Bugatti invitation yet

 

[Grayfox]

I wish I could have something to say about this... but I don't have a Bugatti invitation yet

You and everyone else.

 

[Tommy_D]

Well, I do have the Bugatti and it is still 100% stock. Took it to the Special Stage Route X Track and maxed it out at 259 mph. I could take my hands off the wheel and it remained stable at speed. Of course as soon as I hit the banked turn at 259 mph with the stock Sports Hard tires, it immediately spun out and probably killed everyone within a 100 mile radius. Big crash. So I would think some better tires are in order to take turns at such high speeds.

Edit: Tried it again and if you let off the gas and drop it down in to 5th around the banking you can go 200-220mph around the turns with ease, even on the stock sport hard tires.

I'll post the video I did of it once it's finishing uploading to YT.

 

[Dave A]

Well, I do have the Bugatti and it is still 100% stock. Took it to the Special Stage Route X Track and maxed it out at 259 mph. I could take my hands off the wheel and it remained stable at speed. Of course as soon as I hit the banked turn at 259 mph with the stock Sports Hard tires, it immediately spun out and probably killed everyone within a 100 mile radius. Big crash. So I would think some better tires are in order to take turns at such high speeds.

Edit: Tried it again and if you let off the gas and drop it down in to 5th around the banking you can go 200-220mph around the turns with ease, even on the stock sport hard tires.

I'll post the video I did of it once it's finishing uploading to YT.

Which isn't correct behaviour. The car shouldn't spin out like that on the SSRX banking. It went full speed around the banking at Nardo in real life without a hint of drama (beyond the speed). The tyres aren't the problem, it's something to do with the physics of the stock suspension.

 

[snowgt]

Which isn't correct behaviour. The car shouldn't spin out like that on the SSRX banking. It went full speed around the banking at Nardo in real life without a hint of drama (beyond the speed). The tyres aren't the problem, it's something to do with the physics of the stock suspension.

The Veyron apparently did not go full speed around Nardo. Or at least, it didn't record its top speed at Nardo. The Koenigsegg CCR holds the record at Nardo at 388km/h (241mph).

Also, the turns at SSRX are 4km long, meaning they would combine to a circle of 8km circumference. Nardo is slightly oval shaped and 23km long. That's a LOT less forces on the suspension & tyres...

 

[RacingFan1]

There you go everyone, he said so. Threads closed.

Your wheel must have some setting wrong then, or something strange. Me and several other friends that have a wheel, confirmed what I said. Done using a thrustmaster T150, T300 and TGT.
Car is totally stable at any speeds, and it was designed to do so IRL. I mean the game has still many bugs and some weird car behaviors to fix, but I would not go this far.

 

[MarionJ13]

I'm trying to figure out what the problem is. So the car is unstable at high speeds. Drive a different car. There are 450 others in the game.

The problem is a specific mission, hence not being able to change the car.

...I could take my hands off the wheel and it remained stable at speed...

I don't think I can do this with any car without the wheel undulating back and forth. Like speed wobbles on a skateboard. I know trying to put any steering direction into a car at 400kmh is going to be twitchy at best but for me this specific mission seems like a bit much. This was with aids off. It feels like it randomly wants to pull to one side or the other and if you don't hold the wheel perfectly still any input/correction is immediately amplified and the car goes into a death wobble. Weather this is realistic or not, I have no idea. But if intended, it it defiantly not errrrrr "end user friendly" for lack of a better term.

Your wheel must have some setting wrong then, or something strange. Me and several other friends that have a wheel, confirmed what I said. Done using a thrustmaster T150, T300 and TGT.
Car is totally stable at any speeds, and it was designed to do so IRL. I mean the game has still many bugs and some weird car behaviors to fix, but I would not go this far.

Well me and several of my friends, that are here posting I might add, confirmed what I said. So let's maybe try and help each other instead of being dismissive?

 

[Tommy_D]

I know trying to put any steering direction into a car at 400kmh is going to be twitchy at best but for me this specific mission seems like a bit much.

I did this mission a couple weeks back and remember the car being twitchy once you got out of the slipstream. It is possible that PD intentionally set the car up to be twitchy at speed for this specific mission. Basically a bad setup to make the mission harder than it should be.

 

[MarionJ13]

I did this mission a couple weeks back and remember the car being twitchy once you got out of the slipstream. It is possible that PD intentionally set the car up to be twitchy at speed for this specific mission. Basically a bad setup to make the mission harder than it should be.

I knew GT7 felt kind of uninspired to me but I hope your wrong. That just seems like a crappy thing to do on PD's part imo. Come to think of it I guess rabbit races are in the same vein. It's a shame. I really loved GT7 at first, but now I'm just left with feelings of meh.

I really hope it's a bug or suspension bottoming out as was mentioned before. That being said I pretty rarely go fast enough for this to be an issue for me anyways.

 

[kowalski__1]

For what it's worth there was a dude online doing 450kph+ in the Chiron running laps at Daytona oval,so it is possible to tame it.
Sadly i didn't get his set-up.
I run low 36 sec laps at the tri-oval in the ZR1,35s in the Pagani ,he was running in the 32s'
So,if anyone figures it out please post here,there are none in the Tuning section.

 

[Tommy_D]

I knew GT7 felt kind of uninspired to me but I hope your wrong. That just seems like a crappy thing to do on PD's part imo. Come to think of it I guess rabbit races are in the same vein. It's a shame. I really loved GT7 at first, but now I'm just left with feelings of meh.

I really hope it's a bug or suspension bottoming out as was mentioned before. That being said I pretty rarely go fast enough for this to be an issue for me anyways.

Why is it a crappy thing to do? The S-10 license is driving a 50 year old race car on a wet track with slick tires on it. That's the challenge portion of it. If it were easy anyone could do it. Slipstreaming past everyone in a car that is super stable and has no difficulty completing the task wouldn't be a challenge at all. So they set the car up to be intentionally twitchy to make the challenge harder. It's still a feasible challenge and if I recall not one that took many tries to beat.

Here is the stock Bugatti at full speed with no problems:

 

[MarionJ13]

Why is it a crappy thing to do? The S-10 license is driving a 50 year old race car on a wet track with slick tires on it. That's the challenge portion of it. If it were easy anyone could do it. Slipstreaming past everyone in a car that is super stable and has no difficulty completing the task wouldn't be a challenge at all. So they set the car up to be intentionally twitchy to make the challenge harder. It's still a feasible challenge and if I recall not one that took many tries to beat.

Here is the stock Bugatti at full speed with no problems:

If you have to give a car a crappy setup to make a challenge, that's just bad design imo. I mean if your car had a crappy setup. wouldn't you address that before going racing? There's a lot of design choices that PD made with GT7 that I don't understand. But that's for a different thread. As for S-10, slick tires and rain does happen in motorsport. Hence a good challenge imo.

Which aid is that you have on in the video? Aside from ABS. I haven't tried it outside the mission yet but someone else did earlier in the thread and posted a video. Same thing as me. Do you use a DD wheel? I'm wondering if the "play" in a gear driven wheel could be just enough to exaserbate it.

 

[Tommy_D]

If you have to give a car a crappy setup to make a challenge, that's just bad design imo. I mean if your car had a crappy setup. wouldn't you address that before going racing? There's a lot of design choices that PD made with GT7 that I don't understand. But that's for a different thread. As for S-10, slick tires and rain does happen in motorsport. Hence a good challenge imo.

Which aid is that you have on in the video? Aside from ABS. I haven't tried it outside the mission yet but someone else did earlier in the thread and posted a video. Same thing as me. Do you use a DD wheel? I'm wondering if the "play" in a gear driven wheel could be just enough to exaserbate it.

It looks to be counter-steer assistance. It's set to weak. I have no clue what it does or why it's on. Maybe it got turned on when I did the S-10 race and I forgot to turn it off. I don't think it aids in any straight line driving though.

I use a Thrustmaster T-300 wheel and their load cell pedals. I haven't noticed any erratic steering at high speeds with the exception of the Tomahawk. My friends kids were over for New Years and they took the Tomahawk out on the high speed oval. They were holding on for dear life trying to go in a straight line with that car. But the Veyron... not a problem

 

[Tommy_D]

Here's a quick video I just made for this challenge. Stupid simple gold medal. Counter-steering assistance turned off. Again, I'm not sure why that was turned on. Anyway no assists. First try Gold.

 

[kowalski__1]

So i did some drinkin and some testin with both Bugatti's at Daytona Tri-oval and Route X maxed out.
Forget about the Veyron,the Chiron is a beast.
Chiron at Daytona 32.5...Veyron 33.9
Chiron at Route X 3:55...Veyron 4:10
Same set-up basically works fine for both tracks...

 

[RacingFan1]

Well me and several of my friends, that are here posting I might add, confirmed what I said. So let's maybe try and help each other instead of being dismissive?

Someone just made a dedicated video for you, and I agree 100% what he said in the video. Thanks @Tommy_D that was satisfying to watch lol
And yes, using no assists at all, except ABS but you don't brake in the mission anyway. So check if you have them turned off

 

[Dave A]

Someone just made a dedicated video for you, and I agree 100% what he said in the video. Thanks @Tommy_D that was satisfying to watch lol

Only the video doesn't answer the questions being asked, it demonstrates how to gold that mission well, but with regards to what is being discussed here there's a lot of "I don't know" in there. How to gold that mission isn't what's up for debate. The video doesn't explain why the Veyron becomes unstable on SSRX or other circuits where it can reach high speeds nor does it come remotely close to negating that there's an issue with the stock suspension physics underpinning the problem.

 

[RacingFan1]

Only the video doesn't answer the questions being asked, it demonstrates how to gold that mission well, but with regards to what is being discussed here there's a lot of "I don't know" in there. How to gold that mission isn't what's up for debate. The video doesn't explain why the Veyron becomes unstable on SSRX or other circuits where it can reach high speeds nor does it come remotely close to negating that there's an issue with the stock suspension physics underpinning the problem.

It demonstrates that the car IS stable at very high speeds, and demostrates that this unstability issue that some reported is not a general thing that happens to everyone
People who have an issue, must be related to their particular settings/driving aids/wheel

 

[Dave A]

It demonstrates that the car IS stable at very high speeds, and demostrates that this unstability issue that some reported is not a general thing that happens to everyone
People who have an issue, must be related to their particular settings/driving aids/wheel

No, it demonstrates that with the right delicacy you can complete that event while keeping the car under control, that's not a demonstration that the car is ultimatley a stable car, that's a demonstration of delicate control. Now you can try to argue that demonstrating one proves the other, but that is most certainly not the case as whilst lacking the requisite levels of control can make an even stable car feel unstable, being deft enough to control an unstable car in a given situation does not suddenly make that car stable.

Even if there was an issue only with certain settings/driver aids, it still doesn't negate that there is an underlying issue with the physics causing the problem in the first place. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp or why you have such a problem believing that such an issue could be there. With a game that contains over 400 cars there are bound to be some anomolies amongst them.

There plenty of issues with other cars in the game too, incorrect gearing for example as well as high speed drag and the underlying issue of where from tyres lose traction leading to understeer which are off across the board.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I just recorded a video going round Route X where, for the first half of the lap, I tried to keep it centred within a lane, and the second half, within the lane itself. Will have it up a little later today.

No assists, stock car, Sports: Hard tyres, controller. If you don’t touch the steering at all, it’s stable, but as soon as you nudge the wheel, it starts veering in that direction, and correcting will cause it to slowly slingshot/whip around the other way.