Wikileaks

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Keef
You're both wrong - while the host country does have jurisdiction over the embassy, "most" host laws are void inside the embassy according to the Wiki article. The host country isn't allowed into the embassy without permission, unless they go in with guns a'blazing and violate the Vienna Convention.
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However the foreign countries have accepted the British terms (ie. the possibility to get their embassy raided by the police a week after a warning of such) when they set up their embassies in the UK or decided to continue maintaining them after the terms had changed.


FoolKiller
So, are you telling me that the US can't assure the death penalty wouldn't be imposed? They aren't even trying for the death penalty with Manning and he has a possible treason charge.
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In a country which has an independent judiciary, how could you assure it isn't imposed (100% sure, not just 99.999...%)? Isn't it up to the judges to decide the penalty, which doesn't have to be in line with what the prosecutor demands. There have been cases in Europe where the penalty has been harder than what the prosecutor demanded.


FoolKiller
Of course, all of this supposes that it would be an above the board public extradition. That is not Assange's claim. The claim being they are false allegations designed to get Assange in custody, where he would then be discreetly handed over to American officials, which is why it now would have to be Sweden.
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How could an extradition be carried out discreetly? If he is in custody in Sweden and then he suddenly appears in the US facing a trial, that's not pretty discreet (and if he is treated unfairly that whole extradition was illegal). Of course it's easier to hand him over if he is already in the hands of the authorities, but it surely wouldn't go unseen.


FoolKiller
Wait, you see no hypocrisy in Britain threatening diplomatic relations to get at Assange but allowing a child rapist free passage through their country because the crime wasn't in the EU? Assange is not technically in Britain, so I fail to see how the EU law applies.

I have no issue with Britain arresting Assange on the street and turning him over, but being willing to violate the sanctity of an embassy and risk diplomatic tensions seems a bit drastic, especially in comparison to their past actions toward similar criminals.
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At least the UK and US view the lands of the embassies their own soil which is just lent to the foreign, and the local laws still apply.

But I don't see the British really storming in to get Assange, the threatening of doing so was just pressuring the Ecuadorian to not to grant him asylum. Assange will probably be just taken from his escort off the embassy if he decides to try to leave.
 
XoravaX
In a country which has an independent judiciary, how could you assure it isn't imposed (100% sure, not just 99.999...%)? Isn't it up to the judges to decide the penalty, which doesn't have to be in line with what the prosecutor demands. There have been cases in Europe where the penalty has been harder than what the prosecutor demanded.
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I could go into this huge explanation of how deals work in these cases, but you want 100%. OK. They don't charge him with espionage. As I explained already, Assange did not directly perform any kind of espionage.

He was approached with information. He did not infiltrate any US systems. He took the information he was given and just made it publicly available. He did not directly hand anything over to foreign countries. There would actually be a hard case to prove espionage. And he did nothing that could be construed as one of the federal capital felonies.

That all assumes it would happen in the public eye.

How could an extradition be carried out discreetly? If he is in custody in Sweden and then he suddenly appears in the US facing a trial, that's not pretty discreet (and if he is treated unfairly that whole extradition was illegal). Of course it's easier to hand him over if he is already in the hands of the authorities, but it surely wouldn't go unseen.
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Wouldn't be the first time this year.

If it were discreet it wouldn't be a political extradition. More like quiet extraction. And as Wikileaks showed us, we don't always put guys we dislike in detention facilities on US soil. When I say discreet, it means disappear. They may even let Assange get found guilty in Sweden, go to prison, and then have a news report that the prisoners did to a convicted rapist what they typically do and Assange died or was harmed and moved to solitary for his protection. All the while Assange is in a country that doesn't play nice with strangers.
 
FoolKiller
I could go into this huge explanation of how deals work in these cases, but you want 100%. OK. They don't charge him with espionage. As I explained already, Assange did not directly perform any kind of espionage.

He was approached with information. He did not infiltrate any US systems. He took the information he was given and just made it publicly available. He did not directly hand anything over to foreign countries. There would actually be a hard case to prove espionage. And he did nothing that could be construed as one of the federal capital felonies.
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Indeed. And that's why he is innocent (of any actions against the US); he isn't a US citizen either. If Assange could be punished for his actions, then the US could raise charges against half of the Russian and Chinese armed forces tech and science department personnel. For using and distributing confidential (US-made) material (as it's obvious the security leaks both ways), that is.


FoolKiller
Wouldn't be the first time this year.

If it were discreet it wouldn't be a political extradition. More like quiet extraction. And as Wikileaks showed us, we don't always put guys we dislike in detention facilities on US soil. When I say discreet, it means disappear. They may even let Assange get found guilty in Sweden, go to prison, and then have a news report that the prisoners did to a convicted rapist what they typically do and Assange died or was harmed and moved to solitary for his protection. All the while Assange is in a country that doesn't play nice with strangers.
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If it would leak to the public that would virtually destroy Sweden's reputation as a neutral constitutional state, and according to my knowledge of my neighbouring country's politics, it would create a scandal so big their cabinet and parliament would have to resign and organise new elections, based on their current political atmosphere.

And in Sweden the prisons are pretty different from the US, it's all cable TV, an own washing room per each detention cell - they're also pretty much free to do whatever they want inside their cell if they don't want to partake in the activities, only connections to the outside are cut and such. They also get a small daily allowance for being in prison.
 
Julian Assange interviews people like Nasrallah and Imran Khan and delivers their views to the world. If Assange wasn't so blatantly anti-US, he would get more credibility.

Propaganda for or against one side is still propaganda.
 
JacksHerer
You need your brain washed, America has no moral grounds for anything anymore.
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Wait, people who don't agree with you need brain washing? :dunce:

So thats why the US and Sweden are after Assange. They haven't been brain washed by him yet. Of course.
 
XoravaX
At least the UK and US view the lands of the embassies their own soil which is just lent to the foreign, and the local laws still apply.

But I don't see the British really storming in to get Assange, the threatening of doing so was just pressuring the Ecuadorian to not to grant him asylum. Assange will probably be just taken from his escort off the embassy if he decides to try to leave.
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I think that the threat was a bluff that Ecuador called 10 Downey Street on. Think about it this way, The US doesn't enforce their own laws on diplomats when they make parking violations in New York City, with the diplomats claiming "diplomatic immunity" every single time they double park their cars.

As long as Assange is in that embassy, the UK can't do anything about it or else face stiff international condemnation.
 
Assange has successfully argued to a UN tribunal that his stay in the Ecuadorean embassy amounts to unlawful detention by force majeure. UK continues to stress that they are unbound by this finding. It's believed that Assange will now hand himself in to the English police. BBC.
 
Straw Poll:

It's been some time since this all first unfolded.

How many people think this is a witch hunt because western governments are incredibly butthurt that Assange has embarrassed them?

How many people think there is a genuine case for him to answer back in Sweden?
 
How many people think Assange is getting tired of Ecuadorean food?

Liquid
How many people think this is a witch hunt because western governments are incredibly butthurt that Assange has embarrassed them?

How many people think there is a genuine case for him to answer back in Sweden?
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I think Assange has a case to answer in both instances, so I don't think it is about anyone being butthurt... with the possible exception of "Miss A" and "Miss W" :ill:
 
Liquid
How many people think this is a witch hunt because western governments are incredibly butthurt that Assange has embarrassed them?

How many people think there is a genuine case for him to answer back in Sweden?
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I'm not sure that he's embarrassed them. A lot of the debate has centred around the Swedish definitions/thresholds for rape and/or sexual assault but regardless of those definitions Assange has a case in law to answer. He seems to feel that he'll be found guilty or culpable - it's hard to imagine why else he'd spend so long in "Ecuador".
 
TenEightyOne
He seems to feel that he'll be found guilty or culpable - it's hard to imagine why else he'd spend so long in "Ecuador".
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Many of his supporters claim this would only be step one before he is sent in a diplomatic bag to Washington DC to see keys being thrown away.

For me? I don't know. It's really great to know what these governments are actually doing because they should always, always be held to account but if the guy who does this is a fumbly-bumbly sexual pervert... he obviously deserves to be punished for that.
 
I don't know enough about the particulars of the sexual assault charges to comment on if I think they're credible or not. But I do firmly believe that, whichever way that case goes, he will end up being shipped here (the US) to face charges over the wikileaks thing. I'd go so far as to say that's the real reason the sexual assault charges are being pressed.
 
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I remember seeing a documentary on it a few years back, and it was all really shady...

If it would only be for the mollestion accusation, why do we know Sweden will transfered him to the US....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority

So the first time the woman contacted the police was not because of mollestion, rape, sexual haressement, but to force him to take an STD Test....:boggled:

....

For me it's the same as Snowden. Shame our countries bent so much under US force. Germany can't question Snowden because it is widely known it would stain the relation with the US too much. The Swiss, a neutral country bend under the pressure of the US, to such an extend that they transfer Swiss citizen over to the US (FIFA).


Most countries even have laws in order to protect whistleblowers.

But these laws seem to be forgotten if you pee on the wrong leg....

Same thing happened in my country, where a employee gave information about tax rulings to a journalist. We have a law protection whistleblowers. But as he pee'd on the gouverment and important persons, both he and the journalist are facing charges.
 
BobK
I'd go so far as to say that's the real reason the sexual assault charges are being pressed.
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Which is what I was intimating when asking whether people thought his case was a bit of a witch hunt. I'm still not quite sure.
 
I never for a moment believed that the assault charges were the reason that they were so desperate to get him. It was so blatantly a Capone Tax Evasion thing that I originally didn't even believe they were real when they first came up.
 
Ibonibo
The Swiss, a neutral country bend under the pressure of the US, to such an extend that they transfer Swiss citizen over to the US (FIFA).
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Let's be fair here. FIFA actually did banking here in the USA. That is why Ms. Lynch is so desperate to go after FIFA for an actual crime, and rightfully so.

Assange virtually had no presence here in the US, maintained no financial records here in the country, so why is the same passion that the DOJ is going after FIFA with being applied against Assange with a factor of 10? Pretty simple. He helped create the greatest single international embarrassment for the USA in the last 25 years or so by publishing the cables that Private Bradley leaked to him.
 
BBC

UN says he should walk free and be compensated for deprivation of liberty.

UK says report changes nothing and will continue to arrest him.
 
I definitely agree when it comes to Manning and Snowden. Heroes for sure.

I want to say the same of Assange, but he's not doing the actual leaking, rather just being an outlet. It's like calling a news editor-in-chief brave because his reporters are sending back great coverage from the front line of a war.
 
http://www.albawaba.com/loop/wikile...w-us-plans-destabilize-syria-back-2006-744678 and Arab states, Israel, US and some others involved in the document. Why would they create such a mess? They would be smarter if they were actually involved.

Now I wonder if anything automotive has leaked on wikileaks and Jaguar specifically. I searched and when I saw 300 results and lots of duplicates I only saw first page and didn't find anything relevant. (XJ news in Syria category WTF)
 
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Sanji Himura
This has led to reports this morning that he was assassinated through a unknown party.
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pamela-anderson-delivers-lunch-to-julian-assange-at-embassy-of-ecuador-on-october-15-2016-in-london-england.jpg


Prêt à Mourir?
 

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